johnnyt

Just thinking about this again. Could one open up a dual band KPL and add a piece of (insulated) wire to extend the antenna all the way out of the junction box? I seem to recall from something I heard or read eons ago that antenna length needs to be a multiple of the wavelength for best result. Provided one adds a length that results in a multiple of the length of the current antenna, would that work? I'm hoping some RF experts in the crowd can either validate this idea or save me from voiding my warranty for nothing. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

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yep, they are whole house ventilators. HRV = Heat Recovery Ventilator ERV = Energy Recovery Ventilator - as well as recovering heat (or cool) that leaves the house it reduces the humidity coming in - more appropriate for hot climates that run AC most of the year. EHV: not sure Turns out I do also have a 4 inch vent to outside in the furnace room (no damper in it) to prevent negative pressure pulling flu gases back in (only a problem with hot water tank now but original furnace was not power vented either). Didn't know what they called that. I wish our HRV was dedicated and pulling air from bathrooms, kitchen, etc. but it just pulls off the cold air plenum about 5 feet from the furnace and feeds new air back in close to the furnace. Obviously the lobbyists were able to get some profit maximizing concessions right from the beginning. The furnace I have today has a DC motor and the fan is interlocked to run on low (about 50W) with the HRV. On a side note the furnace is actually plugged into a UPS with an extra battery as it only takes about 300 W on stage 1 heat and worse case 700W on stage 2 (not needed for maintaining the temp). When power goes out I set the stat back a degree or two and have heat for about half a day to a day or more without electricity depending how cold it is, of course. But I digress, so I'll leave it at that.

Hi IM, My comment about the 90's for HRVs and mid 90's for bathroom fan was related to the building code. The builders lobbied hard when HRV's were added to the code in the early 90's and won, hence the change to the much cheaper bathroom fan idea. Maybe one can get an HRV in a current build but it's not minimum so probably costs extra. I do think they are the "latest and greatest" and would put one in if I had a house built today, but I confess to not knowing anything about makeup air valves and fans that passively heat the air. I don't have much concrete data to help with your cost/benefit analysis of an HRV. I personally think they're worth it but I'm not totally motivated by the bottom line. It is kind of expensive where I am to have one installed (about $1200 for a "value" model - which is all you need IMO - and $2K+ for a higher end unit with fancy controls, 5 speeds, etc.) so not sure that the pay back period is particularly short. Maybe if you have an electric furnace but right now natural gas prices are really low... I ended up replacing the original builder installed one myself a few years after we moved in. More on the reason why in a second but it cost about $900 2 years ago for all the pieces (plus my labor). I did get a slightly better unit (though not a high end one) and did a much better install job than an contractor would have, including putting in a high end backdraft damper http://www.tamtech.com/store/backdraft- ... tegory.asp. I will mention that finding one with dry contact capability for HA control was a little hard. Not many vendors/models. I also had to find a reseller that didn't mind selling to a regular guy - I'm not an HVAC contractor and the whole industry seems to be kind of a racket up here. I've actually had to buy a lot of my HVAC stuff, like duct dampers, etc. from the US. Fortunately not the HRV though. I went with this line http://www.lifebreath.com/compare.php?id[]=26&id[]=27 (RNC10 in my case) from http://www.enmarsystems.com that I've had good after sales service from. I saved about $150 by not buying the control unit and a dehumidistat. (I might have to do something there when I sell the house if I don't leave the ISY behind.) The main reason I replaced the builder one was because it had a heating element in the intake port, instead of a damper recirculation mechanism. I don't think they do that anymore but did in 1992 when my house was built. So in winter, a 1200W electric heating element was running probably most of the time that the HRV was running (I used an appliance linc to only run it a few hours a day). In my opinion, the heating element kills the business case entirely. Without having done the math, I think I would have been better off opening a window and letting the gas furnace do the work of heating the air than running the HRV. Heating my ~2300 sq ft house currently costs about $700/year (and winters are cold where I am). That wasn't always the case, of course, and may not always be the case in the future. Hopefully some of this info helps. I always read / appreciate the advice you post to this forum. By the way, what are makeup air valves?

Good point, IndyMike, about the different humidity level at lower "set back" temp. I'll give my automation some thought around that. I don't use set back at night but do use it (a little) during the day. Plau, if your house is older and leaky, when it's below about freezing (+/- depending on how much it leaks) dehumidification happens all the time when your humidifier is not running. In Ontario and maybe Quebec and other places in Canada (and northern US?) if your house is newer (early 90's +) it was built air tight with either a Heat Recovery Ventilator (HRV) until about the mid 90's or a relatively big (150-200 CFM) bathroom fan with a "Vent" switch near the thermostat after the mid 90's. If you have a newer air tight home you're supposed to run the fan or HRV to bring fresh air in so there's natural dehumidification happening with the need to bring in fresh air - and arguably no additional cost attributable to dehumidification unless you're overdoing it. I frankly don't know how much you need but I go for about 8 hours / day in spring, fall (when there's minimum "stack effect" venting your house naturally) and somewhat less in summer and winter. My HRV has dry contacts that I use to turn on to low or high IO Lincs. I don't know the Viconic products or the Honeywell Prestige - do they control HRV's and bathroom fans?

A typical (non dimmable) CFL bulb in the lamp would not work with a dimmer. Don't forget to take it out or replace it with a KPL relay when you move (if you leave the HA behind) Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I don't know that dropping below 40% is dangerous. In fact at 0 F / -17.7 C the recommended humidity is 25% according to the guide that is on the humidistat that came with my furnace. It's not great for things like pianos, guitars, and sinuses (which is why you want a humidifier in the first place) but that's the proper humidity level to keep the air that's leaking out various holes in the winter from turning to water in the walls and, eventually, mold. I also think that if you didn't have a humidifier - or didn't run it as is probably the case in many households - you probably end up with humidity levels in the 15% range in many older poorly sealed houses from the drying effect of both the furnace and the cold air leaking in which tends to end up being very dry when it warms up to room temperature.

I have a forced air furnace with a flow through bypass humidifier, AC, and a thermostat I can control with HomeSeer right now but plan to move it to ISY. I've successfully (after some tweaking for sure) automated humidification, dehumidification and general venting. I made sure where fail safe was needed that if the relay(s) involved were off due to failure or a blown fuse or whatever, no damage was done. I have one situation where I decided to override the furnace high speed trigger and I use the Normally Closed outputs on an IO Linc instead of Normally Open such that fan high speed is ON when the IO Linc relay is OFF. That fail safe is important during AC season. I use the thermostat to lower my cool set point down when the humidity is high in summer but the temperature would not otherwise call for cooling (I don't have a dehumidify feature on my furnace/stat combo.) You have to be careful using IO Lincs in scenes where it is reversed from the other ones but that's manageable (and will be using scenes when a bug is fixed in next release viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10499) here's a thread on my HVAC related set up viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10174 and here's a post on humidifiying in particular viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10621&p=80841#p80841

Have you checked out the Logitech Harmony Remote? For just controlling your IR devices in the same room, it's pretty cool. I've had one for about 10years now. I have not set it up to trigger any insteon lighting scenes but if you have the IR version of the ISY, you can either put it into your entertainment unit or set up a remote emitter and program it to run a scene when it sees certain IR code(s). I haven't tried anything else so I can't tell you what the trade offs are but it does seem cheaper if you don't go for the top of the line remote. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

How about an X10 universal module? It's like an IO Linc but with a "sounder" option. You can just use it as a sounder (chime) either in a momentary or steady on/off configuration. I put one in my daughter's room set to momentary as part of her alarm clock "system" that starts by brightening her light slowly then ISY sends 3 X10 ON commands 3 secs apart. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

My furnace/stat combo doesn't manage humidity and recirculation so I'm glad I've got the ISY. I have to say even if I had the choice I'm not sure I would pay extra next time I buy a furnace for the heating company to take care of it because I'm betting it's a little crude in its intelligence. Maybe not, though; particularly, I would hope, if there's an outdoor temp sensor. The indoor humidity setting is highly dependent on outside temperature (if you don't want mold in your walls). Based on the mapping indicated on my humidistat and stuff I found on the net, I wrote some programs to set the recommended indoor humidity level. It's brute force programming but there's no easy equation for it (I think it actually requires Calculus): Here is my HomeSeer program (script) for it, which is both easier to post and was easier to program - but I happily moved it to the ISY: Temp is in Celcius if lngTempToUse < -28.8 then intTargetHumidity = 15 else if lngTempToUse < -27.7 then intTargetHumidity = 16 else if lngTempToUse < -26.6 then intTargetHumidity = 17 else if lngTempToUse < -25.5 then intTargetHumidity = 18 else if lngTempToUse < -24.4 then intTargetHumidity = 19 else if lngTempToUse < -23.3 then intTargetHumidity = 20 else if lngTempToUse < -22.2 then intTargetHumidity = 21 else if lngTempToUse < -21.1 then intTargetHumidity = 22 else if lngTempToUse < -20 then intTargetHumidity = 23 else if lngTempToUse < -18.9 then intTargetHumidity = 24 else ' 0F = -17.7 C -> 25% if lngTempToUse < -17.7 then intTargetHumidity = 25 else if lngTempToUse < -16.6 then intTargetHumidity = 26 else if lngTempToUse < -15.5 then intTargetHumidity = 27 else if lngTempToUse < -14.4 then intTargetHumidity = 28 else if lngTempToUse < -13.3 then intTargetHumidity = 29 else ' 10F = -12.2 C -> 30% if lngTempToUse < -12.2 then intTargetHumidity = 30 else if lngTempToUse < -11.1 then intTargetHumidity = 31 else if lngTempToUse < -10 then intTargetHumidity = 32 else if lngTempToUse < -8.9 then intTargetHumidity = 33 else if lngTempToUse < -7.8 then intTargetHumidity = 34 else if lngTempToUse < -6.7 then intTargetHumidity = 35 else if lngTempToUse < -5.6 then intTargetHumidity = 36 else if lngTempToUse < -4.5 then intTargetHumidity = 37 else 'max is 38% intTargetHumidity = 38 End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If End If Below is a snapshot of my ISY programs (to show why it would be hard to post). There's probably many ways to do this but I like this way because (FWIW) the fewest required number of programs actually run, and only one when the outside temp is above -4.5 C. I use only integer variables and only check the temp periodically since it doesn't have to be adjusted that precisely given that outdoor temp changes relatively slowly. Edit: yes, the low temp in my programs is an extreme, even where I live in eastern Ontario (Canada) where it can get very cold (-22 C last week) but that low and below is rare.

I use a flow through (bypass) humidifier similar to the one in the photo. It runs on 24 V so I use an IO Linc in latching mode to control it. The nice thing about the IO Linc is that I also use the sense with a low voltage detector probe into the mini jack of the IO Linc (that I can no longer find at Smarthome ) to detect a furnace heat call so I only run the humidifier (and other stuff) when there's a heat call and for about 3 minutes after. These flow through humidifiers drop water down an evaporator pad every 30 seconds and not much evaporates when the air going through is cold. Mine, and I suspect most, has a temp sensor to work around this but I don't use it. I also installed a motorized NC duct damper in the bypass because the bypass needs to be closed at minimum during AC season and, in may opinion, whenever the humidifier is not needed. The duct damper is fed by the same 24V source and controlled by the same IO Linc relay as the humidifier. You can read more on my HVAC and other non lighting stuff at viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10174 Hope this helps.

Anyone try or think about selling with the stuff in and some help getting started but then making it clear their services cost $40-$50 / hr after? Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I have one scene to turn all lights on and a second one that contains a few less lights for blinking program so some lights stay on (escape lighting like arw01 says). I think 1 second is too short. Suggest minimum 2 seconds, maybe even 3. Can't remember what I used (not near my console now). Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

I only saved the "before" device table (after the compare), thinking the results of the compare would be saved with it but looking at the xml it doesn't look like it. Let me know if there's any point in posting just half the story.

Ended up missing a couple of KPLs in my sweep. Both of those had at least one record mismatch. One had records missing. In the latter case I decided to take a before and after screenshot. For the others previously I did save the file but the XML produces means nothing to me, while screenshots I can read, even if I'm not clear on what all the codes mean. If the xml would be of use, I can post one of those from previous compare. I tried to upload the before-and-after (restore) screenshots I took combined into one image but got the message that board attachment quota has been reached (which had been fixed a few days ago but I guess is back). In hindsight I think I should have tried reading the device table again - Could missing records be because the query quit midstream for some reason? Although most of the events were hops =2, there were some 1's and 0's, as well as a bit of normal (other) traffic happening. I'll try again to upload tomorrow or in a few days...

by the way, sometimes when restoring the device, the green "writing" arrow would disappear rather quickly even though the event viewer was still showing lots of updates being sent out for quite a while after. Kind of a problem if one doesn't have the event viewer open, perhaps thinks things are done, and tries other stuff that struggles as it competes with the device restore traffic. This was intermittent - noticed it once or twice as I went through restoring 6 KPLs.

I was checking device links tables using a KPL to generate traffic in an attempt to troubleshoot an intermittent comm trouble spot in my kitchen area. The area comm can vary from hops left 2 down to 0 depending on the time of day or the alignment of moon and sun - not sure what exactly. For fun I did a compare while I was there and it showed a couple of record mismatches. I went through and checked other KPLs and found only one that didn't have record mismatches. For the mismatches I checked, they were not insteon addresses I could find under My Lighting, i.e. not devices on my network, according to ISY anyway. I religiously follow the prime directive and link all my devices to ISY, never to themselves outside ISY. The ones I checked showed addresses like 15.A1.CF in the device and 15.A1.FF in the PLM. I didn't check them all but this was the case in a couple of instances. Seems like kind of a strange coincidence that the addresses were so close. I have had some intermittent weird things happen in my (problematic) kitchen area like turning a scene on, having all the lights in it go on as expected, then having one of the lights go off. In one case that I investigated I attributed it to what I noticed in the log was a command to turn another device off at the same time or within a second. The rest of the time, I would just write it off as related to my intermittent powerline comm issues. Weird things don't happen that often (although enough to degrade the WAF a little) and not consistently enough to blame an errant link in the affected device. I didn't investigate all mismatches but have restored all the devices, checked them again and they are fine now. Will check them again in the future but wanted to mention it here in case someone has a suggestion as to what might be happening.

Doesn't have to be bare (and no doubt can't be). My garage door openers both have an insulated antenna wire hanging down from themThe wire exiting the garage door opener is not exiting a high voltage junction box.wouldn't insulated make a difference? I'm not an electrician and I don't know all the code details but I would think the fuse would blow long before an insulated antenna wire hanging from a metal box that's grounded would be live. But maybe that's one of the differences between metal and plastic boxes, and hence maybe a code requirement where plastic boxes are permitted...

the 4-tap test? for a dual band device? I have a new dual band KPL relay (they only sell dual band kpl relays now so I got DB whether I wanted to pay for it or not) so after reading the comment I went looking on the smarthome wiki but could not find reference to the 4-tap test for it. That said the manual is for the pre-dual band model so maybe it's just missing that info. How do I test my dual band KPL relay's ability to talk to the network via RF instead of powerline? Certainly I've done the 4-tap test with my access points, although I thought in that case it was for testing that they are on separate phases, not in RF range. It turns out my kpl and the whole circuit it's on is in a marginal area for powerline insteon signals and having one of my access points 3 feet from it (on the wall behind with my metal junction box between the two) didn't help. see viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10513&p=79841&hilit=less+than+feet+away+from+access+point#p79841. You'll see veteran poster LeeG makes a few comments that might help you too.

Nor the WAF. unless you have a hole in your wall, you wouldn't see a wire hanging out of the back of a junction box...

yesterday I upgraded from 3.3.9 to 3.3.10 and after the update the browser closed but I could not reconnect to ISY. Cleared the cache, tried connecting over a span of about 5 mins but kept getting browser timeout. I went down to the ISY where the PWR, TX and RX were steady on. Pull the plug, waited a few secs, and plugged it back in. Everything was fine after. Upgrade did work and nothing was lost but thought I would mention it.

Doesn't have to be bare (and no doubt can't be). My garage door openers both have an insulated antenna wire hanging down from them

They don't help if you have metal junction box (required by code in Canada.) I think it would be nice if the antenna was a little wire that could be fed out of a hole in the box so it could dangle in the wall a little further away from metal parts. Personally the only time I would have chosen to purchase a dual band switch (if I didn't have metal boxes) is if I had to communicate with a motion sensor near the switch that was maybe a little far from my access points. Do you have any/enough access points? I don't think you can replace the need for access points with dual band devices. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Hi Michel, If I had an unused motion sensor I could add in then cascade down through my affected sensors using "replace with" functionality (if that would even work toward troubleshooting the problem), I would gladly do that but unfortunately I don't. Removing the sensors, adding them back in and fixing the many programs that will be affected along the way seems like a lot of work unless I'm missing something about what would need to be done. Even if a factory reset fixed the problem, would that go toward identifying the root cause or would it just make the problem go away? and maybe only for a while? At least one and maybe two of the affected sensors has had its battery replaced since I went from 3.2.6 to 3.3.4 (am now on 3.3.9) if that helps narrow this down, although another one that has not been affected (yet, anyway) has also had its battery replaced not long ago. I'm due to replace the battery on another one soon and will keep an eye out for a message coming from that one in particular both before and after in case that helps.