johnnyt

Just a quick update to mention that the problem stopped happening for between 5-10 logins after my last post then started happening again for about 3-4 of the next 5-6 logins then stopped happening again for another 5-10 logins, then happened twice today (out of maybe 6-8 logins.) Note that I'm having other GUI problems too, like the right click menu not coming up on the main (devices) tab, and general freezing. Restarts have been fixing those so that's what I've been doing. I may check if there are any posts on those issues or open another thread but time is scarce and all this troubleshooting and trying to report intelligently on what's happening is taking away from getting stuff done so I may just live with having to do restarts every now and again - 'specially if I'm the only one having these problems.

yes, there's a green arrow so it was saved but it appears some sort of other change occurred on reload. I upgraded earlier today to Java update 22 and the problem hasn't re-occurred since but it hasn't been heavily tested yet either. Will try what you suggested and let you know the outcome if it happens again. Note on the Java front, FWIW, my Win 7 machine had 64-bit Java installed, which comes with a few quirks I found out. First it didn't have an update option in the control panel. I had to go to the web site and download update 22 myself, which then installed as a 32 bit version but my Java control panel didn't recognize it (still said update 20, not 22 although the Java web site version checker said I had 22 installed). I went into Programs & Features control panel and unistalled the update 20 reference, which fixed things, including restoring the update functionality that is part of 32-bit version but not 64-bit. Another quirk is that on the Java web site I didn't find a reference to Firefox - which is what I use - with respect to 64-bit Java. If I follow what I did find about 64-bit Java I'm suppose to use 64-bit IE in order to use it... I don't know if the above adds anything of value because I also have a 32-bit vista machine I use and think I had the problem with it too. That said I'm not 100% sure so maybe it is (was?) unique to my Win 7 / 64-bit Java setup.

Done, however note that I did a "New Program" as soon as I opened the Program Details this time, i.e. in the parent folder, and it didn't appear so it's happening outside my sub folders too. Note too that I renamed the parent folder to "ISY Programs" hoping this would help me organizing things better in HomeSeer by using the HS ISY Plug-in folder naming feature to give ISY devices their own location. (It didn't work the way I had hoped but I didn't bother changing it back). Maybe something bad happens if one messes with the parent folder name?

In Program Summary, all columns (path, etc.) are blank except name: "New Program" and activity: "-Not Saved-" when i click "edit" from Program Summary it brings me to Program Details tab. I am able to edit the new program (that I can't see in the left pane), it saves when I hit "save changes", and - after a restart - it shows up in the parent folder. I can upload a screenshot if it would help and if someone tells me how ("img" button didn't work) Clicking "undo" certainly clears everything up (New Program is gone) but it does not solve the problem next time I click New Program. Now clicking "save" first then "undo" does now show me the "New Program" (again in the parent folder, not where I was when I clicked New Program button) but it shows up as modified/"not saved" (like some kind of change occured between the save and the reloading that occurs when I clicked undo.) The save-undo combination is a step toward making this easier to work with but it's a bit of a kludge. It's very frequent for me, although remains inconsistent. Am I the only one who's having (or has ever had) this problem?

I will confirm that it downloads the files every time. The problem is that I'm having another issue, as you would know, with "New Programs" not appearing in Program Details page (http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=5054) and it was suggested the cache might be the problem in that case. I don't want to be clearing the cache everytime before I start the app so I turned it off (waiting for download is less painful than the 4-5 or whatever clicks to go clear the cache every time before I use the app) That other problem is still under investigation and even though turning off the cache didn't fix it, I'm assuming I better keep it out of the troubleshooting loop for now. (By the way, if I can re-enable the cache at this stage of troubleshoot the other problem, please let me know. I'm still going on the "GUI problems are usually a cache issue" advice I was given) I guess I'll wait until I can re-enable the cache before I report back (if this issue persists) By the way, a technicality but since you mentioned .jnpl specifically, is the situation different if I use the applet way to start the concole (no .jnpl)?

Yes, I was using the icon occasionally on my vista machine (I had no icon on my Win 7 machine for some reason; it disappeared one day some time ago when I cleared the cache and didn't come back) and I was getting double login. After I permanently turned off Java cache a few days ago (both machines) the icon disappeared on my vista machine so I've been using a toolbar bookmark in firefox exclusively on both machines. I was using 2.8.1 until a few days but have been on 2.8.4 for 3 or 4 days now. It certainly happened yesterday but it isn't happening today. That said it is an intermittent thing so it may yet happen again (will keep you posted)

Am (and have been) using variation #4, specifically http://192.168.0.250/admin.jpnl, with 192.168.0.250 being the IP address I configured my DHCP server to give ISY (based on its MAC address) For fun I will try some of the other variations over the next few days. Would it matter that I'm using Firefox (v3.5.14)? Maybe I'll try IE if the above variations don't fix the problem using Firefox. I'll let you know what happens.

i've been mindful of not having 2 consoles running on 2 machines but it has happened and i did chalk up some missing New Programs to that possibility. That said, the occurence this morning and many others previously would not be because of 2 consoles running (I looked for that specifically). Also, please note that I'm not losing any new programs, they just are not appearing on the program details page. I can edit and save them no problem (using the right-click edit on the program summary page) and on restart they are there in the parent folder.

by the way, is it accurate to say I'm dependent on my internet connection and the other end being up in order for the universal-devices/99i way of starting the console to work? (I wasn't using it because of that presumption)

thanks for replying. sorry, but i'm not quite following. what does xxx.xx.xx.xxx represent if not the IP address? do you mean i have use the universal-devices.com/99i to start the console to avoid this? are you also pointing out that I should avoid using the outside-the-browser java web start way (.jnpl)?

"14.83.D8 v92 / Connected"... I also validated that ISY and PLM are talking by turning a few lights on/off around me using the console. It's a bit strange because as soon as I logged in this morning I did a "New Program" just to test and it worked, then undid changes, did a bit of browsing around (didn't create or add anything, didn't shutdown console), came to forum to post a question about having to login twice then went back to test New Program again and the second time around it again didn't show up in detail tab. FWIW, I mostly use a Windows 7 64-bit machine though it also happens when I use my 32 bit Vista machine. I have v2.8.4, Java build 1.6.0_20-b02, and use admin.jnpl to start console

I often, but not always, need to login twice. The first time it appears to be coming from Java before the ISY console shows up on the screen, the second is clearly from ISY. I can click a "save password in list" option in the first instance, which I do, and it seems to stick for a few starts but then clears and asks me again. Is there a way to avoid one of the 2 logins? And while I'm at it, is there a way to bypass login in or auto-login all the time? I don't allow connections from the internet and am not worried about someone inside the house doing nefarious things (other than me, that is )

I have a 2 month old KPL6 configured with a few scenes and programs and, after experimenting with another KPL8 that I use as what I'll call a KPL 7 (linked the top 2 for one large load controlling button and the rest all small secondary buttons), I was thinking of tweaking this KPL 6 to free up the large bottom button so it isn't a dedicated "off" button, in other words turning it into a (true) 6-scene KPL6... Do I have to remove (or will I lose) all scenes (and have to fix the programs) currently configured in/for my KPL6 if I reprogram it to be a KPL8? I realize it will do a factory reset so I mean if I restore a KPL8 with the previous KPL6 scenes will things get all mucked up or fail outright? Am debating the cost of doing this before doing. Any advice would be appreciated.

the problem was still happening for me after I completely turned off the Java caching (at the Java control panel). Restarting the console would work sometimes but not others (with the caveat that the New Program always shows up in parent folder, not in the folder where it was created). Of course, rebooting ISY has always fixed it too for me.

sorry I meant to say can I turn off/cleanout cache for ISY admin console related files (so I don't have to turn it off for all Java apps).

So the New Program not showing up in Program Details tab is happening with significant regularity. I need to restart the admin console for it to show up (under parent folder, even though I created it while in a subfolder) I've been chalking it up to the fact that I often work on a laptop that may go to sleep and/or hibernate with the console open, which has caused the console to lose it's bearings and need to be restarted after a wake up but this problem has happened several times today without the laptop going through any sleep/wake cycle. (just moved yesterday to 2.8.4 from 2.8.1 for what that's worth) Can I turn off the Java cache, or make it clear itself at startup, or can an option be added to ISY admin to do it at startup? It's a real PITA.

so I guess I have to log this feature request with Smarthome - although that won't help with the kpl's I have now.

Would just like to check something that's giving me a little grief and doesn't seem quite right (although I assume there's a good reason for it) From what I've observed and read in a few posts it looks like I need to create separate scenes and programs in order to manage grouped mutually exclusive KPL secondary buttons that are called by ISY rather than a KPL controller button. When I create a scene in ISY with 3 secondary buttons as controllers, the parent (ISY) scene does not allow me to control the ON level for any of the 3 buttons, yet each of the buttons themselves allows me to set the ON level of the other 2 buttons, which I set to 0/Off to make the mutex work on the kpl. So if I press any of the 3 buttons the button lights up, the scene activates and the other buttons turn off if on. However, if I use ISY to activate the scene, while the loads do what they're supposed to none of the buttons do what they're supposed to. From what I can tell I need to create parallel ISY scenes that have the secondary buttons as responders and write some programs to manage the mutual exclusion. Is that right? Could ISY (or is it a KPL h/w issue?) not talk to KPL secondary buttons as responders and allow me to set their On levels when they are controllers the way both ISY and KPL allow that to happen internally within the KPL? I guess before I filed this as a feature request I wanted to see if there was something I was missing.

Well "manually" meant more the IOLinc, but I guess it means both really, using the IOLinc button, which will be downstairs near the unit (in my man cave ) or using the KPL button, which will be upstairs near the kitchen. I realize if I use the KPL, everything will be fine. However, if I understand the situation, using the IOLinc won't be telling my KPL or ISY so I'm going to have to query that KPL scene (or can I get away with just querying the IO Linc?) periodially to light the KPL button and tell ISY/HomeSeer. Is that right?

maybe I'll write a program that queries the IOlincs every 15 or 30 minutes...

Too bad, I thought it relayed its status. Does it report back if I make it part of scene? Two of the 6 have a voltage probe on them detecting thermostat calls and they do activate the relay (I did check the "relay follows input"config option). The problem I have with status non-reporting is that for some, well actually, most, I wanted to be able to manually activate them and have my ISY programs (and HomeSeer) know about it. For example, I bought the HRV without a controller (putting the $100 toward IOLincs and ISY instead) so this is my only way right now to activate it non programmatically. Also I was going to link them to buttons on a KPL in the living area and wanted them to show the actual up-to-date status. Is there a way around this? I notice that while the relay can follow the sensor, the opposite is not true so I can't check the sensor for 4 that don't have one.

I have a 6-pack of IO Lincs, all in latching mode to control HVAC things (Fan High Speed, HRV, duct dampers, etc.). When an IOLinc is turned on at the device, either manually or through sensing a low voltage probe going ON, the status is not updated in ISY unless I do a query. The six IO Lincs are on a long (non surge protected) power bar on a dedicated circuit (for the HRV), a short path to my electrical panel, where my PLM and ISY are plugged in, and within 10 ft of an Access Point (which I went so far as to put on the same power bar to see if it helped.) ISY does seem to otherwise see the devices. Certainly I can query and config them, as well as turn them on and off with ISY. Is this normal or could this be an Insteon network problem despite the proximity to the PLM and Access Point?

Thanks for the info. Helps explain things. I don't remember now if there was a 22 in there (I fixed the problem before reading the last post) but I did learn how the "compare" button confirmed that ISY did not have the links in its table. I also got another lesson out of this. I tried unlinking the devices again (at the devices) and tried device restores a number of times but the link remained in both devices. So I ended up deleting both devices then doing factory resets on both, re-linking to ISY, then having to re-populate all the impacted programs with the "new" devices (D'oh!). More importantly, though, I think I learned how to avoid this in the future. It goes back to the prime directive - let ISY do the linking. I suspect (it wasn't intentional) that my motion sensor was still in linking mode when I linked the switch to the ISY, which would have re-established the physical link between the two devices that ISY didn't know about (unless I'm missing something.) The takeaway for me is to either get the motion sensor out of linking mode before linking the next device, or do the motion sensor last. But if this is what caused my problem, it makes me wonder 2 things. 1. Is linking more than one device at a time to ISY dangerous? i.e. will other types of devices cross link between themselves or is it just a problem with motion sensors? 2. Assuming for the moment they would have shown 22 - deleted. When would they have been removed from the device table? Or will they just end up taking up a row in the table forever?

I did have an ISY scene for it and that's what created the link in the first place, however I deleted that scene some time ago in favour of using a program to control the light because I didn't want the motion sensor directly deciding when the light went off. What I'm thinking might have happened (correct me if I'm wrong) is that when I deleted the scene I didn't have the motion sensor in programming mode so it didn't delete the link in it as far as the device is concerned. The thing I don't understand is why the switch has the link in it's table with the scene gone. Might it have been out of range when I deleted the scene? (I had limited devices in at the time and was still finding the right places for my Access Points so maybe it was too far?) Partly this is trying to understand what happened but more importantly, how do I clean the mess up? Is there a way to delete a device link through ISY when a scene deletion didn't do it and a physical unlinking (outside ISY) doesn't do it?

ISY is reporting a link (at the device level) between one of my motion sensors and a light switch despite my having unlinked the two devices (twice now) following the instructions below from the motion sensor quick start guide and observing the stated behavior (i.e. light doesn't go on when I tap the set button on the motion sensor). There's no visible link between the two devices in the admin console. Have tried to "restore" both devices from the console but the link between the 2 devices keeps coming up when I check their respective link tables within ISY. What might I be doing wrong or not understanding? Any info would be appreciated. ---------------- UNLINKING FROM INSTEON RESPONDERS: 1. Press & hold the Set button on Motion Sensor for 5 seconds (until red LED behind sensor lens begins blinking) and release 2. Press & hold the Set button on Motion Sensor for an another 5 seconds (until the LED changes its blink pattern – it will now be on longer than off) 3. Press & hold the Set button on the INSTEON Responder you would like to Unlink (until its LED blinks) 4. The Motion Sensor LED will stop blinking (if not try step 3 again) 5. Test by tapping the Set button on Motion Sensor. Taps should no longer control the Unlinked device.