Teken
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Posts posted by Teken
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I am assuming KPL means the keypad link modules? Strategically located where they can perform additional functionality?
Makes sense....additional cost
Mapping out my downstairs I came up with 9 Insteon 2477d switches to replace all 3ways.... Wonderful lol
Yes, place them where they make sense and blend into the decor. Its easy to get caught up using lots of KPL's but sometimes it looks really busy and kinda ghetto.
Since you have nine switches that need replacing due to the obvious Insteon linking requirement. Stand in the room and where each switch is and consider what you would like to control in the future. Taking the time now to plan ahead and understanding the small investment now will reap huge rewards down the road for you.
Again, if finances are tight just do one room at a time until these nice to haves are finally completed. Very few people have gone balls out and replaced their entire home of every dumb switch / outlet.
It took me three passes over the years even though I could have replaced everything in my home at once. But, the reality was I knew with 100% some areas simply did not require that kind of investment or costs. Rarely used if ever outlets made no sense in replacing with a smart outlet that was going to sit there and be wasted.
Also back in the day the energy consumption of the Insteon devices were pretty high. Imagine a steady 100 watts which you have no control over sucking down the power in your home 24.7.365.
For me I simply couldn't allow or accept 150 plus watts stuck to my home I had no control over which cost me money. Given the advancement in better power supplies and components most of the Insteon line up has done better in this area.
But its still an area people need to consider along with liabilities . . .
Do not replace any room, floor, zone, with a smart switch or outlet that is mission critical. As the results could be extremely costly and deadly if life and safety devices are attached.
A perfect example is don't place a smart outlet on a fridge, sump, HVAC system . . .
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Thanks Teken....that makes sense (looking at the install manual as you responded) having them 'virtually' connected if they are 3 or 4 way switches. Guess I was hoping I wouldn't have to double my switch purchases...ugggh
Looks like I will be swapping out many more switches than I thought! heh.
I agree with the advice of taking photos and labeling along the way. Makes things much easier later.... Good thing is...I am a musician and learned to do that along the way with all the other gear I have to maintain lol
Trust me most of us know this pain of *What the hell - I need to buy more switches* ?!?!
LOL . . .
Keep in mind this may not sound financially sound or even make sense when I say this. But, before you drop any money on the single switch linc relay / dimmers. I want you to consider how you can extend the control and function of your beautiful home now and into the future.
Consider investing some extra money into KPL dimmers - The reason for this is it will allow you to control 5 to 8 different loads or devices virtually.
I can't begin to tell you how many times I've thanked Smartlabs for coming out in solving the ability to control another remote load in the home! Keeping in mind the KPL can be assigned to do other things besides turn on a load / device.
It can be used to control Sonos, Shades, Fans, GDO etc.
NOTE: Best practices before you move forward is to do the following. Take photo's of all the new gear so you know the MAC code, production date, hardware revision. Hard reset all devices to ensure they are in a OEM state which will ensure no ghost links and programming are present.
Go find a old lamp cord and cut off the end so you can add, test, link, at the kitchen table. This will save lots of standing and back ache when you have trouble shooting or lots of programming to do. It will also save you tons of time when you need to do a *Replace With* because a device failed.
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As I was doing my research for the purpose of engraving on the plastic aka KPL buttons and then filling the engrave area with color, The Green Laser Tape kept coming up. Apparently it’s the best for the plastic and color fill. I’m pretty sure that there are other tapes on the market that will get job done. Since I never had an engraver and it is my “first time” I went with the advice from experts.
Taken asked me a question re style of the engraver open cage vs. closed four corner style.
The reason I purchased open style was to access the tray area more easily. I figured it would be much easier to position the buttons or paddles on the tray. Not being limited by corners. Keep it mid that I also plan on engraving faceplates so I will need extra room….
As far as the cost:
Engraver: 100
Laser tape and fills:100
Q-tips: Free (Source my wife’s makeup caddy)
Enclosure (I had plywood in garage, fan was about 12)
Now let’s do the math even if supplies including machine will run up to 250 and you have 8 keypads you already saving 150 dollars vs. 400 that you would spent in SH. That’s pretty good beer money and at least you are learning something new and your keypads look amazing…
I agree once you purchase five custom KPL kits the entire parts list for the laser unit is so over paid for its not even funny. Even if you bought three custom KPL's kits from SH that's $150.00 before shipping and exchange rate for people like me.
So if you break it down using the three KPL kits it comes out to be something really stupid like $241.36 CDN!
Yeah, pretty sure investing under $125.00 USD is the future moving forward for this guy!
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Yes, the rooms that have the 3/4 ways switches will be *virtually* linked together via Insteon. You will cap off the traveler wires in those existing walls.
Best practice is to also take lots of photos and mark the wires for future use and trouble shooting. Also, always measure twice all wires to ensure the breaker you turned off is indeed the correct one.
120 VAC can kill a person given the right conditions . . .
Ideally you should follow the two man rule having your GF / Wife at the ready to assist.
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Sure I will add little walk thru tonight once I will get home and add pictures.
Marcin,
Looking forward to the step by step guide and photo's. I don't think you fully realize the fire storm you have created with this project you started!
LOL . . .
I fully realize there may be a larger investment in the tools and supplies for the privilege of making ones own custom KPL keys. But given the massive amount of money Smarthome wants for just 6-8 keys at $50.00 a set. The initial cost will be paid back in short order over time.
This may also push Smarthome to rethink the custom KPL keys too once the news comes out and the orders stop coming in!
Ha . . .
On Point: Is there a cheaper material available for the laser tape? It seems like a lot of money for such a product.
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Hello Marcin,
Can you provide some pictures of the card stock and how it was positioned to hold the KPL keys. Also, does the tray have any kind of center (home) position?
Does the laser have any kind of very low setting like a flash light mode to show where the pointer is? Lastly, can the power output be adjusted from 0-500 mW?
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Edited by Teken
I believe the how to section would be perfect! Also could you offer a little more detail and photos about positioning of the keys and how it was held down?
Did it simply just sit there? Also was there any reason you purchased the open cage style laser vs the closed four corner style?
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The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be.
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Again thank you for your comments,
Fist thing first: SAFETY!
Although this is really cool little machine and serves great purpose, please consider few safety things:
1. It is areal laser not a laser pointer. Laser can burn you, blind you or cause hazardous conditions to your health!
2. Make sure while using a laser you are the only one in your workshop and any other visitors always have safety glasses on - including family members. Don't let your pets near the laser. Keep them far away from the workroom.
3. KPL buttons are glossy which reflects the laser beam (enclosure and safety glasses are a must!)
4. If you stare or look at the laser without proper safety glasses you can go blind or cause serious damage to your eyes!
5. Engraving process creates smoke and toxic fumes. Make sure that you are working in well ventilated area!
6. Make sure you are familiar with your state and city safety requirements for using lasers or engraving lasers.
7. You are ordering from foreign country where our safety standards may not be applicable.
8. I'm trying to help you get started and cannot be held responsible for your mistakes. And they will happen.
9. You are using this guide at your own risk, and you understand all precautions and risks involved.
I'm sorry for above but I want to make sure you understand what you are working with.
To get started you will need:
1. Laser engraver. I got BLACK NEJE 500 mW (Link to eBay). It's available on eBay and Alibaba. Although they claim that there is support and warranty service available it is nowhere close to what you would expect. If the engraver will get damaged during shipping cost of returning back to sender is much higher then buying new one. If there is something wrong with unit you are on your own. Shipping will take between four to eight weeks (east coast)
2. A little power supply for USB power easily available on Amazon.
3. Computer running Windows XP or 7 with USB port. Anything never that you may have to restart the laser after each engraving job or drivers won't work. MAC is not compatible
as the never Windows operating system - so I had to dig out my old windows 7 machine4. Professional software that can output PNG file format. I used Adobe Fireworks. I tried Photoshop and Corel Draw but images in JPG or PNG always came out pixelated. So far Fireworks PNG native format has the smoothest lines and letters.
5. Build an enclosure for your laser with 120 mm fan attached to it. Make sure that the exhaust from the fan is going outside. And during engraving process you don't want to see a laser light. I built myself a plywood box with hinges for easy access and to the back of it I attached 120 mm computer fan. Then I connected the fan to old dryer exhaust. Fan will also help with brownish residue left on KPL buttons, make laser engraving consistent and remove fumes and smoke from the work area.
6. Good pair of laser safety glasses. The ones that came with printer are useless. You can google it Amazon has great selection.
7. You will need "The Green Laser Tape" available from laserbits.com. That will make sure that your KPL buttons will not have yellow\brown\black smoke residue on them. It will also allow you to color fill engraved area.
8. While you ordering your green laser tape make sure to get some Pro Color Fill Applicators. Smart Home is using gray color which personally I found annoying. Once the button is on its hard to see what it says. I went with black, red for alert KPL buttons and brown for ivory switches. As you can see it's much clearer.
9. If you want you can pick up clear lacquer for plastics to spray the buttons after you are done you can, but I found that buttons did not loose their gloss and that fill is glossy - they look ok in my opinion. Lacquer can change a color of plastic slightly. If over time color fill will rub off I will just print another one.
10. Q-tips or makeup applicators to apply Pro Color Fill. I tried both and I found Q-tips easier to work with.
11. Nice set of ultra sharp exacto hobby knives.
12. Cutting or hobby board
13. Few sheets of card stock and few cardboard sheets (cardboard backing from legal notepad works great)
14. Blank KPL buttons from smarthome.com I used white and i did not tried using different colors. Make sure to order plenty (I went thru 6 packs just adjusting laser)
15. Couple small binder clips
16. While you wait for machine think about your buttons. Buttons like mine take approximately 6-10 minutes to engrave. Your design should be vector based. Anything more complicated (meaning more area to engrave can take up to 30 minutes)
Keep in mind you are dealing with small "print area" 180 x 200 pixels. Make sure that your icons are in 72 dpi and canvas area is 130 x 130 pixels - line thickness should be set at 4 px. For the font you want to go with something with crisp and evenly spaced out letters. I went with Arial Bold 30 px size in Adobe Fireworks. Make sure to test whatever font you will choose especially little space in A.
If you are still interested in the process let me know and I will put together another write up or walk you thru the process.
Another finished KPL:
Here are some picture of the one that I posted earlier:
Before:
Buttons:
Final Product:
Failures:
Testing of font:
Marcin
Marcin,
First you're an inspiration for an alternative and professional looking KPL keys! Next, may I humbly ask you create a dedicated thread and link this one so others can follow your project.
It will ensure the topic is on point and offers the most useful information for all. Please ensure you use the search terms so others can find it in the future like: Custom KPL, etc
Thank You!
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Unless you have an Amazon Device with the app I think this would be unlikely as I assume Apple or Google will not let Amazon tap into always listening features. As for a tap to say a command I think this will be coming to more devices as Amazon has released a version for the Pi, If amazon does not put it into their app I imagine it will only be a short time before someone converts the Pi version to other Platforms.
As discussed in another topic, This is where amazon is falling short, In my (mediocre) app you can specify a default location for each device, however the way amazon is setup this would be a problem using the same account. I am assuming Amazon's voice recognition works similar to Google's Voice recognition, Google has a numerical value for confidence level of the command, this could be used to cancel "similar" commands picked up by multiple echos by only using the command with the highest confidence level and also adding the default location to the command if none is specified.
All that said, I did receive a push back from some users (in the Domotics forum) who disliked the naming convention I implemented (Location-Device or room-device) as this was how I achieved chaining of commands. Users could remove the location requirement but I made it difficult in order to push the location-device naming convention which I believe is the correct way to name many devices in order to use natural language.
Amazon could also fix this easily by giving names to (shopping) lists, such as "Grocery", "Hardware" or "My Shopping".
Hopefully Amazon is working on these items. If not lets hope competition comes soon!
I don't know if anyone has referenced this thread or others but it should be relayed to the Amazon Echo development team. I know even (IF) they were simply lurking they would glean so much information from active users who only wish to see their product grow.
Doing so will not only speed up their development but also ensure their market lead and dominance in the voice command sector.
So far, Amazon has shown many of us they are listening and wanting to develop a leading edge voice platform.
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Edited by Teken
Up... there goes Teken's Yogo
might be a Schwinn now (think I'd prefer one of those anyway 
Jon...
LOL, I have no words . . .
For the record my Echo is not in an ideal location on my communications desk. As it sits in the corner and the other side of the wall is my refrigerator and when the compressor kicks in its like listening to a freaking bulldozer!
Regardless, Alexa pretty much hears me 90% of the time even with the huge ambient noise . . . I believe with the addition of a few Dots it won't really matter when they are in the living room, basement, and in the master bedroom.
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Have not notice any hiss at all.
Plugged into multiple items, Sonos Pre-amp into vintage Sony Receiver as the amp. Sonos power amp, even tried using two Single Ended Triode tube amps and my preamp for grins....
Sonos working well throughout the house playing Amazon Prime or My Amazon playlists. Interestingly since my fist Echo is setup to control Sonos volume and basic playback, I these functions even though DOT is supplying music stream to Sonos. So even though the dot is in a different room, Echo can control the volume, pause, play and basic functions, but Dot is controlling the music selection and playback.
Accd,
That's great to know but will set my expectations lower (IF) and when I can purchase a Dot. For me its setting proper expectations in those things I use. When the Echo arrived a few months back I wasn't really expecting the volume and sound to be anything too stellar.
But given its price and size it was very decent for its intended back ground music.
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Thanks Teken....
I agree with number one as this is my primary concern around compliance.
That being said, I would like to add (if possible) the ISY as a secondary controller (which I believe can be done) so I may incorporate the lighting portions into scenes for arming the system.
Is this something that others do here? Where the 2GIG panel has the ability to add a secondary controller (being z-wave I assume), I was hoping to utilize the Insteon lighting to make scenes. Have yet to get this far....but thinking ahead.
I've read of several people doing exactly what you asked vs others made the ISY a primary instead of a secondary controller. The obvious power comes from the 994 Series Controllers conditional logic which very few systems offer.
What does the alarm panel offer in terms of lighting control now? Also, does it support all Z-Wave devices from all the major vendors? I ask because reading some of the other forums it seems some of these companies restrict the Z-Wave hardware to only their specific brand.
Which goes against the Z-Wave alliance guidelines . . .
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Have a 2GIG GC3 security system panel that is NOT wireless (cellular card only) and uses zwave for all sensors and is the primary controller for all security devices. Is there any sense here to incorporate the ISY as a secondary controller to handle the security system devices or leave it as is? It does handle lighting scenes within the unit and I would like to utilize lighting scenes when the system is armed/away.
I'm going to offer my feed back from a security and compliance stand point and you will have to decide what suites your lifestyle, and current risk(s).
1. Security Alarm System: Should always operate in a stand alone mode that does not allow none UL / cUL compliant devices to have command and control of the system. Since most users here are consumers and often put convenience over compliance this is up to you.
2. You can make either device a primary vs secondary and depends upon your use case and which hardware device offers the most features and options to suite your needs.
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Edited by Teken
Congrats to the creator of this. However, I think I can do pretty much the same with an angle bracket from the hardware store, a bit of black paint, and a black wire tie... for less than 2 dollars! (and it wouldn't even look to much different!)Good idea to get Echo off the cabinet but I agree w/ high priced and floating wall bracket would do same for less (maybe not as secure though.)
Jon...
You bunch of nagative Nancies! [emoji38][emoji41][emoji4]
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All I got to say is I love the enterprising soul who came out with the idea. Good on him for thinking of a way to make some money while offering something usable for those of us that have a Echo.
I really can't fault the guy for the price given I am sure these are small runs and the reality is its a solid piece of metal and not some cheap aszz plastic that I am sure someone will come out with.
I can't really hate to be honest . . .
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I had some Echos, one account, one name. I was able to control all included devices, scenes and programs from either Echo. But, the meant that each device or scene needed a location identifier, for example "living room light." But, that seemed awkward. I normally don't ask someone to turn on the living room light when I'm in the living room, rather I ask them the turn the light on.
That cumbersome conversation was solved by having multiple Amazon accounts. Anyone who uses an Echo has to have an account. Adding another is easy and there's no need to actually use that account. That allowed me to tell Alexa to turn the "light" or "fan" or "lamp" on or off when in a particular room and specify the room if I'm not in it. So, when I'm in the bedroom, I ask Alexa to turn on the light, but if I'm not in the bedroom, I ask Alexa to turn on the bedroom light. That's close to, even literally, normal speech.
As I added Echos, some were within earshot of each other which gave mixed responses. So, I gave those different names. It took a little while to remember, but that's what learning is all about.
Oh, each Echo can switch between up to two accounts using your voice. (Don't forget to switch back)
Stu,
That really does make sense the way you explained it. Perhaps I already succumbed to the fact I would always have to call out a specific room / appliance instead of being able to say turn on the lights in a specific room. I agree its more natural and human like to be (in) the room and simply say: Alexa turn on the light, fan, etc opposed to saying turn on the master bedroom light which gets pretty old quick.
Also trying to teach others to do the very same is a little painful for those who don't know the syntax or expected use.
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You need to remove the device from any folder it may be in before selecting Replace With.
Good catch that is one situation that causes lots of head scratching from time to time. Also, OP best practices is to hard reset the device first before you enroll the device to the network.
Anytime I am doing a replacement of a device I always hard wire it to a spare extension cord. This lets me do all of the programming and testing at the bench and not have to worry about standing in some random place in the home.
Once the device is hard reset I do the replace with and let the system do its job. Once the replace with is completed you will notice the *Test* unit will have disappeared from the device tree, this is normal.
After that process is done I test the new unit in the comfort of my test bench and if all is well I install it to its final location. Ensure you properly secure all wires using linesmen pliers or similar.
Do not simply use the wire nut (Marrette) to secure the copper wiring . . .
as the never Windows operating system - so I had to dig out my old windows 7 machine
might be a Schwinn now (think I'd prefer one of those anyway 
Choose Indigo Pro or ISY994i ?
in ISY994
Are sellers really asking more for the RPi 3 considering its supposed to be $35.00 for either one?!?