MWareman

Both my original and the replacement did this within hours after a factory reset - before ANY devices were linked. Empty link table and confirmed removed from the PLM link table, yet the issue still happened. Its not a protocol issue.

Same issue I'm still having with my replacement thermostat. I really wish SmartHome could figure it out. Michael. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Thanks Steve. If there is *any* info I can provide to assist - I am more than willing to do so. I think the issue is in the power circuits to be honest - when I powered the 2441TH from my HVAC - I would randomly get the stat changing setpoints, mode and leaf mode. I added a 24VAC transformer to power the 2441TH - and only the left mode symptom remains. This indicates to me there is a sensitivity to noise on the power lines. Perhaps that will give your engineering an area to look at. Perhaps this is also the reason some people have issues - and others do not, and why my replacement unit had the same problems as the original. Michael.

@NHWA You said: "I spoke with smarthome today and they said they did have a few issues with this but that they haven't had any issues with anyone running the newest RC/beta for ISY" I hate to say this - but based on my communication with SmartHome they may have lied to you (or, at the very least, misled you). I'm on 3.3.7 since the day it came out - and I reported back to SmartHome that the 'leaf' issue is still present the day after I upgraded to it. So - they *do* know that there is at least one person with the left mode issue 'on the latest RC/beta'. they keep pointing the finger of blame at the ISY - but have failed to acknowledge my tests that confirm the leaf issue still happens when the link table is empty (immediately after a factory reset of the thermostat). It's getting frustrating to be sure. I truly don't believe they would lie like that. It's probably more likely that either my case was not updated with this information - or the tech that responded to you didn't actually bother to check before the statement was issued - but I do want it on record that on 3.3.7 the left issue is still present. It's present without a connection to the ISY. I just don't believe it's an ISY issue at all to be honest. It feels bad to say - but I am somewhat happy that others have now reported the same issue. It means it's not just me and (hopefully) should add additional priority to the issue - I hope. Michael.

Sounds reasonable. Just getting frustrated with the way SmartHome is handling issues with this device - generally be ignoring them. I just want it to stay at the temperature setpoint that I want.. I will reiterate this from earlier communications. An email from Danny Fehskens @ SmartHome support I received on November 14th stated: ""Leaf mode" is an energy saving mode that automatically reduces your high end temperature to save energy. Occasionally this mode can be inadvertently triggered within the ISY." I'd really like to know how this is even possible - or how he comes to this conclusion. They squarely seem to think it's an ISY issue - especially now that they have RMAd the original device and my replacement is doing the same thing. I'm OK at the moment with this program to work around the issue: If Status 'Thermostat' is not 71° (Heat Setpoint) Then Set 'Thermostat' 71° (Heat Setpoint) Seems ridiculous that I need to do that. From the log I can see it reset 3 times last night. Crazy. No correlation to other timings at all - 23:56, 23:57 and 0:50. Nothing else seems to run at that time - and since then it's been solid (now 10:43). My feeling is that it just has to be a bad device - again. However, I find it really hard to believe that nobody else is seeing this - I'm on my second device now both displaying the same issue. How am I to convince SmartHome that it's a second bad device? How can I find out if the 2441 is enabling the setback mode in response to an Insteon command - or if it's 'spontaneously' doing it without any command? Are there any debugging tools or analysis I can do? Thanks, Michael.

I tried that - and thought it worked around the issue. But it just came back.. Setpoint was 71 and heat turned on (23:19:46). Few seconds later - the setpoint changed to 67. How can I find out what is going on here - it's driving me nuts. I *really* need the ability to have the ISY read the current state of energy saving mode - and be able to adjust the setback. Can this at least be on the wish list? Thermostat - Heat Ctl Status On Sun 2012/12/23 23:19:46 System Log Thermostat Heat/Cool State Heat On Sun 2012/12/23 23:19:46 System Log Thermostat Status 69.5° Sun 2012/12/23 23:19:49 System Log Thermostat - Heat Ctl Status Off Sun 2012/12/23 23:20:21 System Log Thermostat Heat/Cool State Off Sun 2012/12/23 23:20:21 System Log Thermostat Heat Setpoint 67° Sun 2012/12/23 23:20:24 System Log Thermostat Cool Setpoint 79° Sun 2012/12/23 23:20:25 System Log I also noticed during the time the 2441TH was connected to HomeLinc - there are two more nodes there than are exposed thru ISY - in addition to 'Heat Ctl' and 'Cool Ctl' there are nodes for 'Humidify' and 'Dehumidify' based on the humidity setpoints relation to the measured humidity. Is this not implemented in ISY or is it planned? For the time being - I think I just have to continue my brute force program - simply set the temp to 71 every time it's not 71.. seems excessive but it's the only way to have a consistent temp in the house - something that should be a basic feature that SmartHome is just ignoring. I guess buyer beware. Thanks, Michael.

Hi Michel, What a drama. Smarthome replaced my 2441TH with a new unit. I replaced it and.... had exactly the same issues as I did with the old one. I began having one of those 'feeling' that it is a power related issue (the 2441TH was getting it's power from my HVAC control board) and every time the HVAC fan turns on it caused a voltage dip (or spike) enough to trigger random happenings on the thermostat. So - I picked myself up a 24VAC transformer from radio shack and wired that to supply the thermostat with power. It completely solved my random changes (heat/cool/set points) - it's not happened once since. I figured that if anyone else gets into random changes - they should possibly look at the power supply as a potential source. IMO - Smart Home need to do better with the power circuitry in the 2441TH - but that's another story. However, the issue I have of the thermostat going into 'energy saving setback' (or 'leaf') mode still happens. Usually - but not always - it's overnight. Smart Home are pretty insistent that the ISY is doing this thru an incomplete or improper I2CS implementation on the ISY - and I have no way to refute them. I don't have access to their documentation for the thermostat to know - so I'm hoping you can give me more to go on regarding this. Is this possible? I either need to change the setback to 0 degrees (since I'd implement a setback in the ISY anyway) or have the ISY read and be able to set the energy saving mode properly. Not sure where to go since I cannot do this in the ISY at all. I think I'm going to reinstall the HouseLinc software (I still have the HouseLinc PLM from the days before my ISY enlightening) and see if I can change the setback to 0 at least to minimize the effect of the issue. Any other ideas? Thanks, Michael.

Yelling!

Michel, I fully agree with you. I don't think it's possible for the ISY to do what I have been seeing out of the thermostat. I spent some time on the phone with Smarthome today - and it looks like I'm seeing things that simply shouldn't be happening - including having the thermostat spontaneously change from 'Heat' to 'Cool' when I turned off 'Leaf' mode. The two just shouldn't be linked - so we think it's very likely that the root cause if a bad thermostat. They are cross-shipping me a new one. Hopefully, that will resolve the issue - I don't see why not. Do you know if there are any plans to be able to enable, disable and poll the 'Leaf' or 'Energy Saver' mode that the thermostat has? Currently - there is no way to tell within the UI of the ISY. I'll be asking MobiLinc as well - since I'd like to see the current energy mode there as well. Thanks, Michael.

Oh - another question. It seems I cannot enable or disable energy saving mode from a program - or query for it's current status. I also cannot program what the setback is for energy saving mode - as Smarthome seems to suggest should be possible thru software (since they provide no way to set it thru the UI of the device). Is it possible to add this to the software? It's rather an important feature of the thermostat that's simply configurable right now thru the ISY. Michael.

Been away for a while. I managed to keep my 2441TH in check with a simple program: Repeat Every 15 minutes Set 'Thermostat - Main' Mode Heat Set 'Thermostat - Main' 70° (Heat Setpoint) Set 'Thermostat - Main' 77° (Cool Setpoint) Today, I got to looking at it again. Still having big issues. Here is my short process this morning: At 8am, I disabled all programs on the ISY. At 8:08 - I manually set the mode to 'Heat' and the setpoint to 70. At 8:40 I checked - it was still mode 'Heat' and 70. Good. At 8:43 - for some reason the thermo changed to mode 'Cool - and the heat turned off. I noticed this at 9:18. I disabled 'leaf' mode, set 'Heat' and the setpoint back to 70. (9:18:02) 9:18:37, leaf mode turned on again and system turned to mode 'off' (I saw the display change this time!). 9:19:35 I reset system again. Here is the log from the ISY: Thermostat - Main Heat Setpoint 70° Fri 2012/11/23 08:08:57 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Status 67.5° Fri 2012/11/23 08:09:42 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Status 68.5° Fri 2012/11/23 08:15:16 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Status 69° Fri 2012/11/23 08:22:55 AM System Log Thermostat - Heat Ctl Status On Fri 2012/11/23 08:42:37 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat/Cool State Heat On Fri 2012/11/23 08:42:37 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat Setpoint 66° Fri 2012/11/23 08:43:12 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Cool Setpoint 77° Fri 2012/11/23 08:43:13 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Thermostat Mode Cool Fri 2012/11/23 08:43:14 AM System Log Thermostat - Heat Ctl Status Off Fri 2012/11/23 08:43:19 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat/Cool State Off Fri 2012/11/23 08:43:19 AM System Log Thermostat - Heat Ctl Status On Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:02 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat/Cool State Heat On Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:02 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat Setpoint 70° Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:04 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Cool Setpoint 73° Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:05 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Thermostat Mode Heat Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:07 AM System Log Thermostat - Heat Ctl Status Off Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:37 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat/Cool State Off Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:37 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat Setpoint 66° Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:39 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Cool Setpoint 77° Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:40 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Status 68.5° Fri 2012/11/23 09:18:51 AM System Log Thermostat - Heat Ctl Status On Fri 2012/11/23 09:19:35 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat/Cool State Heat On Fri 2012/11/23 09:19:35 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Heat Setpoint 70° Fri 2012/11/23 09:19:37 AM System Log Thermostat - Main Cool Setpoint 73° Fri 2012/11/23 09:19:38 AM System Log Clearly - *something* is changing the thermostat into 'Energy Efficiency' or 'Leaf' mode, as well as changing the heat/cool mode. I have no programs running. Nothing shows up in the error log for the time period. I asked Smarthome - who tell me 'It sounds as if you have a program within the ISY that is causing this error. "Leaf mode" is an energy saving mode that automatically reduces your high end temperature to save energy. Occasionally this mode can be inadvertently triggered within the ISY.' Honestly - I'm not sure if I believe that. It's not just leaf mode being triggered - but the thermostat changes from 'Heat' to 'Cool' mode (or off) as well. Here is the 'Links' table from the 2441TH: Device Links Table : Thermostat - Main / 1D 6D CB 1 0 8184 226 239 1833911 16719855 1 8176 226 1 1833911 16719617 2 8168 226 2 1833911 16719618 3 8160 0 0 0 0 This table matches what the ISY thinks should be there. I have gone thru all the programs on the ISY. Nothing is touching the 2441TH. So - where to look. How can I find out what is doing this? Is this command being initiated from a faulty 2441TH? How can I tell, conclusively, that it's a faulty 2441TH and not a faulty ISY or something else entirely? I'm at 3.3.4 (both firmware and UI). michael.

New as in I cannot find any reference to this issue in the forum so far. My ISY 994 is at 3.3.3 - confirmed in in the client both for firmware and UI. I removed the 2441TH - did a reset on it - made sure it was 'Off' and re-added it to the ISY. I can control the 2441TH just fine - changes on the ISY get reflected fairly quickly on the 2441TH. When I change the 2441TH - the changes get reflected in the ISY. The problem I have is that the 2441TH seems to randomly change modes. This morning, I set it to 'Heat' and the setpoint to 70 via the ISY. Just now - I felt cold. I looked at the ISY and it reported the 2441TH was in 'Cool' mode with the setpoint at 80! On top of that - the 'energy saver' mode was enabled. Wow. I set the mode back to heat. This seems to happen every day or so - but to different modes. Sometimes the setpoint just changes - or the mode changes - or both. In all cases - the ISY and 2441TH stay in sync (they both change). How do I figure out where the change is coming from - the ISY or do I have a faulty 2441TH that is just 'messing up'? Right now - I have removed the 2441TH from my ISY so it's stand alone to see if it's config changes. Michael.

2441TH owner here - AWESOME! Thermostat seems to be properly reporting now. No more manual refreshed for me. Interestingly - I had to remove and readd the device - a 'Restore' did not do it for me. I'll let you know about the IO Linc bug - I just noticed the other day my Garage Door kit was reporting the door closed before the door was actually closed when I initiated the close thru the ISY. Michael.

Hi Michel, I upgraded to 3.3.2 the other day - and the issues with the 2441TH are a little different - but still present. I removed the thermostat (only had 1 node from prior version) and added it again (now has 3 nodes). I saw a post earlier that suggested it should have 5 - the main node, two controllers for temp (low and high) and two controllers for humidity (low and high). The last two are still missing, if indeed they are supposed to be there. When I select the thermostat node, the 'Fan State' claims to be 'On'. It's not - it's currently 'Auto' as displayed on the thermostat display. If I do a 'query' - everything updates - but the fan state is still incorrect. When I click 'Set Options' - the 'Report Humidity' check is unchecked. If I check it and click 'OK' - the dialog dismisses. Clicking 'Options' again reveals a still empty check. Reported here: viewtopic.php?p=70205#p70205 The 'Cool Ctl' node appear to have an 'Options' button, as well as set point adjustment buttons. Not sure if it should Same with the 'Heat Ctl'. Thanks! Michael.

I will just add this to the thread. I still have my SmartLinc (2412N) from before I got my ISY. Tonight, I plugged it back in, updated its firmware and linked only the thermostat - so I could compare the experience using the thermostat with MobiLinc via both the ISY and the SmartLinc. In MobiLync with the SmartLinc, the Thermostat seems fully functional - it displays current fan mode (AUTO or ON) with the current state in BOLD. It displays current action of the system (COOLING, HEATING or nothing for idle) and the Temperature and Humidity seem to update nearly live - no refreshes needed. Switching back to the ISY connection - still within MobiLinc - the fan status is not available, system status is not shown and I have to manually sync to update the temperature and humidity. The manual refresh does not get the status of the fan or system (Cooling / Heating etc) - that remains unknown. The only difference seems to be the way the ISY talks to the thermostst. If there are any traces I can take to help figure this out - I'm happy to do my best to help. I'm not convinced this is a thermostat issue myself - but it seems to be more of an ISY issue. See the album at http://imgur.com/a/358xN for screenshots of the two - note that the state of the HVAC was identical with the two - AC running, fan on. Michael.

Just setup a 2441TH (v.0B) myself - and it appears to mostly work for me - temp and humidity being displayed properly and my heat and AC is being controlled properly tot he setpoints I set. I'm not getting status updates sent to the ISY though - have to do a 'Query Status'. Annoying - yes - but not the end of the world. In the admin console, 'Set Options' asks 'Confirm: Report Humidity' is always unchecked - if I check it - writing happens - but when I click 'Set Options' again the box is again unchecked. It does not seem to do anything either. Also 'Fan State' and 'Heat/Cool State' do not get populated in the Web UI (or in the admin console) - so this does not appear to be read correctly either. Michel - you mentioned an 'upcoming beta' in this thread a few weeks ago (after the release of 3.2.6) - and I still see that the latest available is still 3.2.6 (that I am already running). Is there anything in the works that you can reveal that my reduce the reported issues with this thermostat? Many thanks, Michael.

Sounds like a match indeed - my devices link table did match the ISY after the restore when the device was not working properly. Do you by chance have either a RemoteLinc or ControlLinc is in affected scene? There seems to be a UI glitch around the handling of these two devices (at least in my setup). The UI seems to think that the ControlLinc and the RemoteLinc can be a responder - which does not make sense. I've been thinking that may be the source of the issue for me - but it sounds like it may be something more fundamental. Michael.

Quick question: I've noticed a small (probably) issue with the 2430 (ControlLinc) on 3.1.9 (possible earlier versions as well - this is my first beta version). When adding one - it prompts me if I want it to be a Controller or Responder. It really makes no sense for this device to be a responder so I would think it shouldn't ask and just default to being a controller only. The RemoteLinc (2440) does this already. Also, I just had a heck of a time with a KeypadLinc (2486DWH8) secondary button, a LampLinc (2456D3) load, a RemoteLinc (2440) and a ControlLinc (2430). all in a scene. I had everything configured in the ISY and I reset all devices back to favtory defaults (to ensure no old links). I then issued a 'restore' to all devices from the ISY (with the RemoteLinc 'listening') to program all devices for the scene. The results were incomplete. The status lights on the Keypad did not reflect the LampLinc state, neither the RemoteLinc nor the ControlLinc could control the LampLinc - but the KeypadLinc could turn the LampLinc on and off (and the state would be correct in this case). Mobilinc could control the LampLinc and the state on the KeypadLinc was correct in this case. Strange. I do know that when I first deployed the ISY with 2.x I did not have this problem. I had to remove, one by one - all devices from my scene - then re-add them one at a time. Once that was complete - the scene worked properly. In the GUI - the ControlLinc and the RemoteLinc seem to report that are both a 'Controller' and a 'Responder'. It's not really possible for them to be a 'Responder' so I think this may be a UI bug. Could this also be affecting the construction of the scene? Michael.

You're welcome! I not really sure. I don't believe that calls to network resources can have parameters passed to them. I think you have to create a separate network resource to notify each specific message. For example, 'Motion Detected - Garage' and 'Motion Detected - Back Yard' would need to be two separate resources - rather than something like 'Motion Detected - $varDevice'. Likewise - I don't think that the current implementation of variables is capable of being used outside of programs. I do realize this would be much more useful with these two features: Allowing parameters to be passed to network resources Using variables everywhere - SMTP messages, as a part of programs (for instance - turn on the device identified by the current content of a variable) and (of course) as parameters when calling network resources Of course - I'm still very much a noob at this. I am probably very much mistaken! Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can enhance our understanding? The main thread I'm looking at is http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=5987. I know that variables are still very young and developing. I (for one) am looking forward to them growing up! Michael.

Brand new owner here - and thought I'd give something back after figuring this out. Thanks to Michel @ UDI for your help getting this going. I've posted the details on the wiki at http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Networking:Mobile_Notification Thanks!