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Remember too the limitations of Z-Wave switches, unless you're looking at the more expensive GE ones, which are something like 1.5x the cost of an Insteon switch. Most Z-Wave switches are not instant status, meaning when you turn the switch on or off on the wall, the ISY doesn't know about it until it polls it. I don't know how often that is on the ISY, but the Vera is every minute or so, plus it is a cycle, so every minute it runs the poll, starting at device 1, then 2, then 3 etc, so it can be around 2 minutes between the time it queries the switch. Where that can be a big deal is when you want to run programs like having a motion sensor turn on a light. For my Insteon switches, I have a program that says if I manually turn it off, disable motion for 30 seconds, to let someone have time to leave the room. With Z-Wave switches that's not possible, because when you turn it off on the switch, as mentioned it's up to 2 minutes before the ISY knows that happened. Again the more expensive Z-Wave switches to have instant status, but I believe they are in the $80+ range per switch. I personally prefer the Insteon switches over my Linear Z-Wave ones, as they click much easier, have instant status, have fast on, fast off (same thing, no fast on/off on z-wave), and have a nice LED panel to show brightness level.

I've only read through the first page but just wanted to post an observation I found with a similar issue. Had the same problem, motion sensors taking 1-2 seconds to turn a light on with a program. However now I have the Z-Wave module in my ISY after having the Vera for a bit, and so my network is mixed. I have rooms with Insteon motion sensors and a program to turn the Z-Wave switch in that room on/off, and also Z-Wave motion sensors with programs to turn Insteon lights on and off. Just worked out that way, wasn't planned. Anyway what's interesting, is that these trigger the same speed as a scene, even though it's an ISY program. I don't know if it's because it can send the light on command the instant it receives the motion command or what, but it's so fast you'd think it was an Insteon scene. I walk in my bathroom and I'm half way through the door and my Insteon motion sensor turns on the Z-Wave switch before I am even fully in the room. Not that that's a solution necessarily, but was interesting.

Hey everyone, In my basement we have an electric fireplace that is really never used, to the point it's not even plugged in even though it's really new. I'd like to connect it to the network now as part of a scene, as the device can be always on, so plugging it in turns it right on, meaning I can automate it. I'm going by memory since I'm not at home so I can't remember if it has a 2 or 3 prong plug. I feel like it would be 3 but for some reason I have 2 in my head but will confirm. Would the Insteon plug in appliance module be the best option? I also have a spare Z-Wave GE Outdoor Module similar to the Insteon one which I feel like would work as well since I already have it. Or debating on one of the OutletLinc or whatever they are called outlet's as well. Any suggestions or does it really make a difference? Thanks!

Great thank you that's what I figured, and no there's no tape anywhere. I'm going to pick up the 2 wire one from Amazon since 30 days to return it in case it doesn't work, and will see how it goes. If it works fine with the halogen bulbs then I don't mind not putting LED ones here since these lights really aren't on all that much, it's more for the convenience of turning them off remotely as there's nothing worse than being upstairs about to go to bed and seeing the light from the far side of the basement shining upstairs.

Hey everyone, okay some more details after I took the switch off. I'm just really confused because if the white is the neutral, then I do have that but none the less there's only 2 wires. Was going to take a picture but it's easy to explain. Going into the single light box is a white shielded cable and inside there's a Black, White, and bare ground. The White wire connects to the top connector on the switch, or the Up/On side. The Black wire connects to the bottom connector on the switch, or the Down/Off side. The ground connects to the light box. That's all there is in the box. My other switches as mentioned instead have the black going to one end of the switch, a red going to the other, and then the bundle of white neutral in behind. I'm just confused since if the white is neutral, I'm missing the red instead I guess? So based on that confirmation of just a black and white on the current switch, can anyone confirm that a normal dual band Switchlinc, or Z-Wave switch or any switch needing a neutral, will not work here without that micro module in the ceiling? Then secondly, if it won't work without that, is this a situation where that 2 wire RF only Switchlinc (Assuming it is connected to an incandescent load, not halogen, LED etc), would potentially work? Thank you!!!

I find for me doing it my way works well, where you have maybe 1 folder for each floor, one for each room, and then I usually do another by device type, like "KeypadLinc" and then in those folders is where I keep the scenes as well, like for example each KPL button has a scene where it's just the responder, so I can light up the LED on it or turn it off with programs, so those are in the folders under the room. I find that works well, as it's when writing programs that you really want to easily find things plus you can always rename them in the mobile apps, so seeing: "First Floor/Front Entry/KeyPadLinc/Front Entry - KPL B" works best for me since it's super easy to find when making a program plus is descriptive for apps.

Oh weird yeah no this works in reverse, so if the door is closed, the "Door Open" device shows On and "Door Closed" shows Off. If I close the door, they immediately flip, so "Door Open" changes to Off, and "Door Closed" changes to On.

I had the exact same problem when I got my ISY, had no issues before or with the Vera's built in Insteon or the Insteon Hub app, but no luck with the ISY. I did those tests to find out what phase everything is on, and found out the PLM was on a different phase than the garage (even though many devices are on the other phase and worked fine). So I moved the PLM to a different outlet on the same phase, and the issue immediately went away.

I always try to use nice names or descriptive ones, but then when you use a mobile app that's what it shows the name as. So in the ISY I realized I could do folders, so made one for each room. That way when writing a program it was super easy to select things, like "First Floor/Living Room/Lamp" but the problem is in MobiLinc and apps that comes up as just "Lamp". You can usually rename them on the app but I use different ones and nothing is firm yet for me on what I want. So I gave up and just have them still in folders to make it easier to write programs, but each device for me is basically "Living Room Lamp" "Master Bedroom Ceiling Light" "Guest Bathroom Light" "Shower LED" etc.

Hey EricK thanks so much that worked amazing! When I was saying before that my motion programs act just as fast as a scene, the hidden door sensors definitely don't. It's not awful, since I mean if there's a 1-2 second delay it's not terrible because it takes that long to open the door and walk in, so usually still on anyway. But this is instant now so definitely much better and great to know it is possible to make that 2 devices like that! To anyone else wondering what happened, changing that mode changed the door sensor which normally shows On when closed, Off when open, into 2 devices "Door Open" and "Door Closed" each with an On or Off, allowing scenes to be triggered when open or closed.

Thanks EricK! I didn't even realize it had that as an option, I'll try it out and see how that goes. Right now it's not terrible though but it would be nice if it was a bit faster. I may not keep the sensor there, not sure yet just because I think I'll be getting a Schlage lock at xmas, so may repurpose that door sensor elsewhere and just have the light come on when the door unlocks or something.

I'll add my bit as well, but most have covered it. For me, scenes are for when either 1) You want devices to all come on at the same time, as in no delay between them, or 2) You want something like a KeyPadLinc or motion sensor to control a lamp or light. As others have mentioned, the ISY can be used to set up the scene, but it doesn't need to be on, plugged in, etc for it to work. So the ISY could be disconnected and that motion sensor will still turn your light on, and the KPL button still does the lights. It's also super fast, that motion sensor will trip the light on literally the second you walk in the room, and if you had a scene set to turn 5 lights on at the same time, for the most part they will all turn on at the exact same time. The main problem with scenes is that they are ALWAYS either on, or off. So for example, you want a motion sensor to turn a light on but only between 2pm and 6pm. A scene won't work, since it's programmed into the physical devices and always runs. However a program can easily be set to say "If it is between 2 and 6 and motion is ON, turn the light on" and so on. So here's where I have scenes vs programs: Scenes: - KPL button to turn my living room lamp on from the wall, since it is connected to a Dimmerlinc. Normally it is on a timer but sometimes we manually want it on and don't want to get behind the couch to turn it on, or use a phone. - Guest bathroom motion sensor turns the light on, as I want that to happen fast, and 24/7. - Same as above but in the laundry room - KPL button to turn on my outside christmas lights - KPL button to turn on my christmas tree - I have a remotelinc in my bedroom, scene A turns the bathroom light on and off, B turns night table lamp on or off, C turns the ceiling light on or off - I have a LED bulb (Insteon) in my shower as a scene with the Switchlinc in the bathroom, so when I turn the bathroom light on manually or with motion, both come on at the same time. If I had this set up as a program, most times the lights will turn on with a 1-2 second delay between them. - I have a Scene for each KPL button with the button as a responder only. This is how you make a KPL LED light up or off. Programs: - Motion sensor turns master bathroom light on with motion. This is a program because it has to be disabled from midnight to 9am to prevent walking in at 3am and being blinded. What this actually does is when motion is detected, it triggers the last scene mentioned above, so shower and bathroom turn on at the same time. - A timer to turn the living room lamp on and off at a certain time (as well as all other lamps) - Motion sensor in the kitchen turns on the light which is a switchlinc. This is a program also because I have more logic built in, like disabled until 1pm unless it's dark in the kitchen, fast on will turn on the dining room light, fast off turns off the dining room light, each time I press up on the switchlinc it disables motion for 20 minutes, so for example if I'm going to bed and I want the kitchen light to stay on for an hour, I press up 3 times. - If my front door opens and hidden door sensor goes off, my front foyer light goes on for 5 minutes then off again. This can't be done from a scene, because the way a scene would control this would be "When the door is OPEN, the light is on, and when the door is CLOSEd the light is off." So not possible to say "For 5 minutes then turn off again" etc. Then of course you mix and match. For example, I mentioned a scene above which turns the KPL button light on or off. So I have a program that says "If front door or back door opens, then start Scene "KPL A, B, C, D" in master bedroom for 5 minutes." So that way if the doors open, all 4 of my KPL buttons light up for 5 minutes then turn off. This is prob my FAV Insteon feature, as my bedroom is on the 3rd floor, so if the neighbours open and close their door at night (which they do all the time), it honestly sounds like it's my front door. So I love being able to look over at the KPL and see it is off, and know that my doors haven't opened. One quick thing to add too, one of the main reasons I did scenes was as others mentioned, it's faster if a motion sensor trips and turns a light on. As a scene is near instant vs a delay with a program. However now I have a mix, Z-Wave motion sensors and Insteon switches, and Insteon motion sensors and Z-Wave switches, yet they are SO fast. Like just as fast as a scene, I literally have my body half way through the door and the light is already coming on. When I first got the ISY one of the reasons I didn't like it was because motion programs were so slow that you were literally in the bathroom, would pause, turn to turn the light on instinctively, only to have the motion turn it on. I never have that issue now, but this is a different ISY so who knows maybe it was a programming issue before, or maybe because I have about 50 devices in total now the network is better meshed, but yeah works well. (Also keep in mind if you ever get the Z-Wave module, adding Z-Wave and Insteon devices to a scene isn't the same thing in that it will link them through the ISY, but there's no hard coded link between them from what I understand). The main reason you'll ditch a scene is when you need to control it or disable it periodically, which can only be done with a program. Hope that helps a bit.

Great thanks I'll check that out and see. For point 2, the lights can easily come off, they aren't like permanently glued in. It's just this thin metal decorative piece that pops on over top the light and is the frame over the ceiling. That can't push in deep enough to snap into place, so I use a couple drops of caulking instead. Easy to pop off, but bit of a pain to clean up and put back up, since hard to hold in place while it dries.

The only problem with that that I'm unclear on is: 1) That switch controls 2 ceiling lights, so would I need 2 micro modules for each? And either way, what happens if I don't get a Switchlinc? Would it be like having LED bulbs, where if the wall switch is turned off, I can't control them at all? 2) For the other 2 switches, they are pot lights. I haven't taken the switch off the wall to check but I'm assuming there won't be a neutral there if there isn't anywhere else. So would that mean it is somewhere in the ceiling? Actually just thinking it's impossible to know, the lights are literally glued to the ceiling lol. They are designed I guess to go up AFTER your ceiling is done, but we bought them before the ceiling was done, so they were a pain to secure. They are secured in of course, but just the cover that goes on and covers the bulb, the decorative part absolutely would not snap in deep enough because when you push it up to secure it, the pot light fixture in the ceiling just pushes in deeper, so gave up and used no more nails, since the LED bulbs should hopefully last forever. So it's not impossible to remove them but definitely will be a major pain lol. Too bad there wasn't a GU10 LED bulb. Actually I'm just thinking, it might be easier to just replace the fixtures all together even though they are only 2 years old, but replace them with something that uses normal bulbs, and just pop in a few Insteon LED bulbs since they would actually dim, where as the LED bulbs connected to a light on a switchlinc never dim for me (at least the GU10 bulbs that is, that are LED). 3) Just a quick one to add, what are the repercussions of buying the 2 wire RF only Switchlinc just to try it? Like it's mostly halogen bulbs in the light I'd have it on and I'd be fine using them exclusively if it means not having to spend $250 on new fixtures and switches. Just wondering like if I bought it just to see, would it either just work or not work, or maybe work intermittently, maybe causing the lights to flicker, weird stuff like that? Or are we taking issues like it would catch fire or blow the circuit or something like that where I shouldn't even try? Because Amazon is 30 days return so wouldn't mind trying it if there's a possibility. RF coverage is no issue.

Running a 3 wire cable isn't practical as we just finished the basement a few years ago so don't need automation that badly to rip open the ceiling. Will stick to getting up to turn the lights on and off the old fashion way

Okay so the main lights, #1 above the 2 ceiling lights on the one switch, I just checked and running into that wall box is one of those white shielded electrical cables, and inside is a white that connects to the switch, a black that connects to the switch, and the ground which connects to the wall box. There's just those 2 plus ground, no neutral. I can clearly see in it since the back is exposed since it's my laundry room behind it which isn't finished. So if there's a neutral it would be in the ceiling box which I'd have to check, but what I'm still not clear on is how that micro module or whatever it says would work if at all, since the switch is either on or off, so not sure how turning the lights on from my phone would work when the paddle switch is still in the off position. I'm wondering more if I can just wire in a neutral, since the laundry room behind the switch is where the circuit breaker is, so all electrical goes into here. The light in the laundry room is a pull cord kind but it was installed from the builder, so wondering if there would be a neutral in there. I do see a bunch of wires in a marette that don't go to the light, but not entirely sure as I was the one that changed it from a pull cord to a wall switch and had to wire it. Maybe I'll take pictures of it or write out what comes and goes from it to see if one might be a neutral, as if it is, the switch I need a neutral in is only maybe 7 feet away.

Great thanks, I'll post what the switch looks like later when I get home. I've ruled out the 2 wire switch as all bulbs will be LED soon since the cost savings are too high to keep them as halogen.

I guess I'm just confused still because a light isn't incandescent or not, is it not the bulb? I mean a normal screw light bulb could be incandescent, halogen, LED etc, but Larry above said halogen are incandescent, so what kind of issues might I have? If it doesn't work with LED then it's not a huge issue if halogen works. I'd rather not take the chance though. Is it possible to wire in a neutral? The one main switch for the basement is totally visible, as the back of it is in the laundry room with the circuit breaker which isn't finished. Just not clear on where the neutral comes from, as even when I spoke to my Dad he said electrical cable comes with 3 wires, black, white, and a ground and that he's never seen one that has a 3rd wire being the neutral. Would I have any ability to add a neutral or would there be an easier way to make it all work? Or is doing the wiring mentioned above with the micro module in the ceiling the best option? Not really clear as when I check this micro module here (assuming this is the one), it says neutral wire is required. https://www.aartech.ca/product/00/2442-222/INSTEON-Micro-Dimmer-ModuleSo you're saying if there's no neutral in the switch, it would be in the actual ceiling light and I'd install this there? Would that not mean though that all light switches would physically need to stay in the ON position similar to if using an LED Insteon bulb? Not sure how I'd do that with the pot lights, basically what I just want to control is the following: 1) The main switch is connected to 2 ceiling lights, they are just normal ceiling lights (2 ceiling boxes of course) with a normal light on it which has 4 GU10 LED or Hallogen bulbs on them. This isn't it, but it's basically 2 on the ceiling like this Sorry the photo is so big, just found that online but yeah basically 2 of these connected to 1 switch I want to control. 2) There's 2 other switches, each connected to 3 in ceiling pot lights (6 lights in total 3 per switch). For these there'd be no way to install the micro module in the ceiling since, well it's 3 lights so not sure how a ceiling box works for those. Maybe I'll get lucky and a neutral will be in those switches but it is doubtful. The number 1 above is the main one I want to control though since that switch is on the complete opposite end of the room, so if you were watching TV, to turn it off you have to get up and walk 50 feet or so to get to it. Thanks!

Hey everyone, Just wanted to follow up to this as I wanted to double check one thing. As mentioned in my basement, none of the light switches have a neutral. It was wired 5 years ago but my Dad just never did it for some reason with a neutral. I have 3 switches in total, one goes to 2 ceiling lights which have 4 GU10 I think it is bulbs on it, a mix of hallogen and LED (change to LED once the hallogen dies), and then the other 2 switches connect to 3 potlights each, also GU10 bulbs I believe all LED. So when you say it has to control an incandescent light, does LED count or does it have to be hallogen/incandescent? Thanks!

Thanks everyone they seem pretty inexpensive so will check that out. Just have to find where to buy it, as that site listed is US only and for that $3 sensor the shipping is $30 to Canada lol!

Just curious as I have a few hidden door sensors, and then the Garage Door IO Linc as well. All the hidden door sensors which I used more often, show their status as Off when the door is closed, and On when it is open. The Garage door though Sensor shows On when the door is closed and Off when it is open. I don't know which is more correct in terms of one or the other. MobiLinc shows the door sensors as a closed door by default and status OFF when the door is closed. For the Garage door it shows it also closed by default but status in green ON. So it's confusing because they are both the opposite. Is there a way to either reverse the IOLinc so that the sensor closed shows Off and only shows On when the door is open like the hidden door sensors? Or even change the door sensors? Tried trigger reverse but nothing happened, not sure if that's for this or not, but I remember reading there's issues with the nightly query or something. Just would be nice to have all sensors have On be the action, as in door open, motion detected, etc. Edit: Trigger reverse is what I want, it just doesn't update until you open the door so didn't think it was on. I know there's issues with some 3am thing so will check into that, sorry seem to have figured it out myself.

Perfect thanks that's what I figured. Not really a huge deal as no one but me will remember that fast on and off controls the other light anyway.

Just wondering. My setup is I have a KPL in the dining room and then a Switchlinc in the Kitchen with a timer on it (every up press on the SL keeps it on for an additional 20 minutes then turns it off). To save walking all the way across the kitchen and dining room to get to the KPL switch, I thought I could use the Fast On and Fast Off of the SL to do this. I wrote a program to turn the KPL load on with Fast On and KPL load off with Fast Off. This works as expected but it of course turns the kitchen light on or off with it. So if I Fast Off, all the lights go off. I wrote these 4 programs below to fix it which work for the most part. If the kitchen light is already on and I Fast Off to turn off the KPL, both lights go off for a second then the kitchen goes back on. I don't dim that light which is why the programs don't care if it was only on at 50% etc. Just wondering if there is a better way to make this more efficient or do this? Thanks! Fast On 1 If Control 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is switched Fast On And Status 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is not Off Then Set 'Dining Room / Dining Room Light' On Fast On 2 If Control 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is switched Fast On And Status 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is Off Then Set 'Dining Room / Dining Room Light' On Set 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' Off Fast Off 1 If Control 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is switched Fast Off And Status 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is not Off Then Set 'Dining Room / Dining Room Light' Off Set 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' On Fast Off 2 If Control 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is switched Fast Off And Status 'Kitchen / Kitchen Light' is Off Then Set 'Dining Room / Dining Room Light' Off

I have no problem hearing any of my KPLs or SwitchLinc's. If the TV was blasting them probably not, but I'd say it's just as loud as a cell phone text message tone or whatever, to the point that I can hear it from 2 floors down. Mostly given up on it though, not really that huge of a deal for me so ended up changing most of my programs like the enable away mode, to just light up when I press the KPL button, not flash, but only activate away mode after 60 seconds vs beeping and flashing a countdown.

Well in fairness, I'm not sure why they would have a Beep feature or option and then not expect people to actually want to make something beep a few times. I can't see any reason that having it beep just once would ever be beneficial. It seems more that it's the ISY that can't keep up as if you have the admin console open all it does is pop up a progress bar saying System Busy every time it makes it beep or flash. My Z-Wave light switches can beep as long as you want, so I just ended up changing it to have the Vera make my bathroom light switch beep every second when the door opens and it seems to work.