LeeG

There is no Scene Status to check. Insteon has no concept of Scene Status and the ISY has chosen not to implement something on its. Every time a discussion gets started about what Scene Status should mean there is not a clear consensus what characteristics should apply to Scene Status. Do not know what HomeLinc is doing to control a Secondary KeypadLinc button but it cannot be turned On/Off with a Direct command. The Insteon Direct On/Off messages have no means of indicating which Secondary button the command applies to. A Scene with the KeypadLinc Secondary button as a Responder does turn the button On/Off but it is impossible with a Direct command. Automated Scenes is a Folder. When I click on a Folder that contains Scenes those buttons are grayed (inactive). What does Help | About display for Firmware line and UI line? I had many of the first ICONs in the main house and were not a problem for the ISY. What is displayed on the right side top two lines when the node is clicked.

The 2413 is a Dual Band device which could add to the reliability of the Insteon network. As far as speed of Insteon messages on the powerline there is no difference. The 2413 has a faster processor which can result in a link database lookup being faster but I doubt that would be observable. The 2413 supports fewer links in the PLM although storing more links in the 2412 than the 2413 will handle can have link lookup issues for the 2412 so that is not likely an issue. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I see no reason to replace the 2412 if it is working for you.

1) The imported buttons are controllers and responders for the scene. But as shown in the GIF, both on and off are "active". How can I fix this so I can remotely activate a scene as I would with a button press. I understand I can "test" the scenes, but would like to be able to activate the buttons remotely. The button are not indicating On/Off status as Insteon has no concept of Scene Status. Both buttons are operational turning the Scene On or Off 2) Other buttons (scene controllers) of Keypadlincs show only as an ON state and I get an error loading nodes message when I use the HTML-based device list. Secondary KeypadLinc buttons cannot be turned On/Off with Insteon Direct commands so only the device status is displayed 3) Three or Four devices would not import because ISY couldn't determine the engine, or device is unsupported. Is there a level of ICON or Switchlinc not supported? That depends on the level if ISY firmware being used. Most likely the ISY/PLM was not able to communicate with those devices that indicate engine could not be determined. The unsupported device could be the level of ISY firmware being used or a new device type that has not yet been added to the ISY.

Yes, with all the appropriate caveats. That is like asking does every device repeat the message on the powerline. Absolutely not. Does every device repeat the RF message. Absolutely not. The question cannot be answered with a simple Yes or No because an Insteon Mesh Network is anything but simple. There is an updated insteondetail.pdf document on insteon.net that goes into how Insteon messages are processed. Simply put once a device ACKs a message hops stop. Device A, Device B, Device C, Device D on one circuit. Device A sends a message to Device B. Device B does not repeat the message to Device C and Device C does not repeat the message to Device D. That is why device to device control communication starts out with a Max Hops=1 to maximize the data rate and minimize traffic. There is a chart in the insteondetails document that quantifies the reduction of data throughput rate as Hops increase. I think you take it on faith that the Insteon Mesh Network works. With the appropriate Dual Band devices on both 120v legs (phases) that have been verified to be in RF range of each other and on opposite 120v legs the Insteon Mesh Network works. That does not mean that issues with individual circuits cannot exist. They often do and need an individual solution.

No. An I/O Linc does not operate on RF. Only the most recent KeypadLinc Dimmers are Dual Band. Most KeypadLinc Dimmers in the field do not operate on RF.

"A query always shows the correct value." The problem with that is Query returns the opposite state to what the Sensor is sending. When the Sensor is sending an On a Query will indicate Off. When the Sensor is sending an Off a Query will indicate On. The fact that Query "corrects" something in this situation may be indicating a logic problem rather than a communication problem.

A different approach would be to set the Local Ramp Rate to 8 minutes. With this setting tapping the On (Up) paddle turns On the load but has no visual effect because it takes 8 minutes to actually turn On. The ISY Programs would have time to wait for a second tap to decide if only 02 should be turned On or 01 should be turned On. If 01 should not be turned On and it was Off to begin with 01 would have to turned Off by the Program to stop the 8 minute Ramp up.

"I would like to wait the double click before decide if I need to turn on the light 01 or not. " Assuming SwitchLinc 01 has a load connected to the Red Load wire, this is not possible. As soon as the On (Up) paddle is pressed SwitchLinc 01 will turn its load On. The load has to be controlled by another device such as an InLineLinc. The operation of SwitchLinc paddle will have no direct affect on any load. The ISY Programs can count the number of On (Up) paddle presses or look for a Fast On (quick double tap of On (Up) paddle) to decide whether to affect the InLineLinc On/Off state. Could install a KeypadLinc Relay instead of a SwitchLinc. The Primary load control button (ON for 6 button or Main A for 8 button) would always turn on load 01. A Secondary button could be used for the single/double press activity which using ISY Programs would result in turning On whatever other devices are desired including the KeypadLinc load itself.

The 2441ZTH reports temp and humidty to the ISY. These values can be checked in an ISY Program

Your conclusion is exactly right as far as Off/On 2/15 going to 3/0 increases the Off brightness level (2/x going to 3/x) as well as the On brightness level by what looks to be the equivalent of a bump by 1 On level brightness. I'm not absolutely sure every bump of the On level by +1 physically increased the actual On level. Watching the LEDs directly for many hours it got hard to be sure of a physical reaction. That would be 8 (0-7) x 16 (0-15) = 128 distinct different On levels. Although the Rev 5.0+ User Guide indicates the KPL supports 256 Brightness levels with software. Makes me wonder if the Off level of 0-7 might actually support 0-15 which would provide 256 On levels. I can test that under Powerhome as it supports issuing commands with just about any value one wants to use. Great testing tool. Need to test an old KPL before moving to that test. There was no combination that reversed On and Off. That is, the LED was On when the button was Off and the LED Off when the button was On. I’m skeptical about SmartLabs reacting to user requests but it cannot hurt. I suspect it would confuse the end user with LED On indicating button Off. .

Zahnarzt The ToggleLinc is NOT Dual Band so RF communication does not play a role here. Thinking the ToggleLinc is on the same 120v leg (phase) is not helpful. When the PLM cannot see the ToggleLinc either the ToggleLinc is wired wrong the PLM signal is being attenuated or interfered with due to surge suppressor, unfiltered power supply such as a UPS or PC power supply on the same circuit as the PLM for example the ToggleLinc and the PLM are on opposite 120v legs With the investment in an ISY the first thing to do is install a pair of Access Points on opposite 120v legs. There is a 4 tap Set button test described in the Access Point User Guide that will insure the Access Points are installed correctly. Insure any device being powered on the same circuit as the PLM (UPS, PC, router, modem, etc as well as surge suppressing power strips) are isolated with a FilterLinc. A simple test to verify the ToggleLinc is working is connect it to an Appliance cord (plug on one end, bare wires on the other). Plug the Appliance cord into the same plug point as the PLM. Use New INSTEON Device to add the ToggleLinc to the ISY. That will insure all parts are working without concern for all the powerline questions that are open at this point.

Yes. The tests were done sequentially. The Off/On combination went from 0/15 to 1/0 to 1/1 to 1/2 ...., 1/15 to 2/0 to 2/1 to 2/2 and so on. The change in On level from 1/15 to 2/0 produced an increase in the On level brightness as did the change from 2/15 to 3/0 and so on. The change in the Off level brightness increased as the Off level number was increased. What did not happen was an increase in the Off level brightness as I went through 1/0 thru 1/15. Of course the On level brightness increased but the Off level brightness remained the same through incrementing the On level 16 times (0-15). This was very much unexpected. Have not had a chance to test against an older KPL yet. Either the way the KPL reacts to the Off/On combinations has changed or my test methodology last year was very flawed.

Xathros Sorry for the confusing post. I meant there was no change to the Off level brightness as the On level number increased. This is quite contrary to the test results done on an earlier KPL last year. I've updated the post with the rest of the test results.

Results of LED Brightness tests. All x/y numbers are Off/On values 0/1 thru 0/15 – LEDs are physically Off when button is Off; On level increases incrementally 1/0 thru 1/15 – LEDs are dim when button is Off, no change to Off brightness over On level increases; On level increases incrementally 2/0 thru 2/15 – Off level brightness increased from 1/15 to 2/0, no change to Off brightness over On level increases; On level increases incrementally 3/0 thru 3/15 – Off level brightness increased from 2/15 to 3/0, no change to Off brightness over On level increases; On level increases incrementally 4/0 thru 4/15 – Off level brightness increased from 3/15 to 4/0, no change to Off brightness over On level increases; On level increases incrementally 5/0 thru 5/15 – Off level brightness increased from 4/15 to 5/0, no change to Off brightness over On level increases; On level increases incrementally 6/0 thru 6/15 – Off level brightness increased from 5/15 to 6/0, no change to Off brightness over On level increases; On level increases incrementally 7/0 thru 7/15 – Off level brightness increased from 6/15 to 7/0, no change to Off brightness over On level increases; On level increases incrementally Increases in On level were very small done 1 increment at a time. The brighter the On level the harder to see incremental increases by 1. At times found it necessary to compare differences of more than 1. Observations made looking at LEDs directly with caps removed. These results are very different from what I remember testing on a lower KPL firmware. Will repeat the tests on an older KPL.

Smile4yourself Insteon does not handle commands at that speed. Remember the primary function of the powerline is to provide 120/240 volts to appliances. Insteon traffic has to share the powerline. It is not meant to handle traffic at that rate for any amount of time. oberkc is right on when suggesting using Scenes rather the sending individual commands particularly to a series of devices. A Scene command consists of a single Insteon command that is not ACKed. It means the Insteon mesh network has to be reliable since there can be no retry when no ACKs. However, the Insteon mesh network should be made reliable regardless.

Don't remember a 0/0 versus a 0/8 test result. (Off/On, I think in terms of bits in the byte rather than pulldown) I think the factory reset level is brighter than a 0/3, which I think is the same as 0/7. (again off/on values) I'm leaving to run some errands this afternoon. Will run some tests tonight when I get back.

Unfortunately SmartLabs does not publish (at least publicly) what the various values produce. There is always a minimum separation so some of the combinations do not mean anything. Start with 0/7, 0/8, 0/9, 0/10, 0/11 .... to 0/15. Off/On values Then with 1/8, 1/9, 1/10, 1/11 .... to 1/15. Then 2/9, 2/10, 2/11 .... to 2/15 Then 3/10, 3/11, ... to 3/15 and so on. This is from memory of tests run more than a year ago. With the Relay variant setting a single backlight On % I'm guessing the Dimmer will follow eventually.

Xathros I'll have to run a series of tests again to see what is actually happening. I don't think the LED On/Off will be reversed. UDI is simply listing all the number combinations that can physically be set in the Backlight byte. The first 4 bits control the Off level with 0-7 as the valid range. The last 4 bits control the On level with 0-15 as the valid range. The KPL maintains a visual difference between Off and On regardless of what values are set in the Backlight byte making many of the combinations of Off/On values meaningless. EDIT: an Off value of 0 along with On combinations less than the 8 differential provide the default backlight level because the backlight byte is set to what is equivalent to the factory reset default 00 setting. All of this is from memory.

The Fade Up and Fade Down are the equivalent of pressing and holding the On or Off paddle. The Ramp Rate for such an activity is preset by the device firmware and cannot be changed. Also note that Fade Up and Fade Down require a Fade Stop to complete the sequence. Otherwise the device firmware is left in a state equivalent to pressing and holding On or Off without every releasing the On or Off paddle. Define an ISY Scene 'xxxxx' with the "Light" as a Responder. Set the Responder Ramp Rate to 30 seconds per your post. The Program issues a Set Scene 'xxxxx' On or Set Scene 'xxxxx' Off to have the Responder Ramp On or Off over a 30 second time period.

That combination is not possible. When the On level is at max brightness the Off level is 8 levels lower. EDIT: also note that the KPL Relay Backlight level is set as a single Backlight % On value. The Off level is controlled by the device itself. Setting the Backlight level by a single value actually makes more sense than having two values (On and Off) which do not operate independently.

Not sure what the backlight On/Off levels are being set to but note that the KPL maintains a logical difference of 8 between the On and Off levels to insure the user can visually tell the difference between a button that is On and a button that is Off.

Note that the PLM physically has many more devices in that Scene than the ISY knows about. Each device the ISY is aware of is displayed as failed or succeeded. Don't know how the configuration has reached this point but I suggest doing a Restore Modem (PLM) to clean up the PLM link database as well.

There are now 11 devices responding which includes Sun 08/25/2013 01:20:39 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.95.84 23.98.F7 61 13 1E LTOFFRR(1E) that was missing before.

There are ten devices in that Scene which seems strange for a Scene that represents KPL button E. Also as noted device 22 95 84 5 did not respond. I hate to keep asking this question but it is very important. Has a Restore Device been done for the KPL since the last Factory Reset?

Are you doing a Restore Device after doing a Factory Reset? The Factory Reset is erasing the very link records needed for the Scene to work. Right click the Scene name, select Diagnostics | Scene Test. This will product an event trace. Post the event trace. Turning the Scene On/Off should turn the KPL button LED On/Off unless there is a comm problem with Scenes to that KPL or the Factory Reset activity has not been cleaned up with a Restore Device. I suggest staying away from the Factory Reset for now.