LeeG

I would move the Leak Sensor near the PLM (if a 2413) and repeat the Set button tap test. At this point the Leak Sensor is either not sending any Wet/Dry message or is not in range of a Dual Band device.

dba62 Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Tap the Set button on a Leak Sensor. Either a Wet=On or Dry=On message should be traced followed approx 15 seconds later by a Heartbeat message. Post the event trace after waiting at least 30 seconds for Heartbeat.

After running my test Program this morning when the temp and humidity values changed overnight, I realized the D2D Event message is displayed on the Program Query when the value is different from the last value. The temp dropped from 27 C to 24 C and I received the D2D Event message. The second time I ran the Program Query I do not get the D2D Event message because the temp is still 24 C. The Admin Console Query displays the D2D Event messages even when the values have not changed.

According to the Wiki a Repeat 1 executes once. Never tried a Repeat 0 but the result suggests do not run at all. To break a Repeat sequence, add a "Repeat 1 times". Actions after this Repeat will only run once (that is to say, they won't repeat at all). This is useful when you want some Actions repeated, but then want to continue on with more Actions that should not be repeated.

In case my previous was not clear, the D2D Event messages are NOT generated from unique messages from the device. The data display in the D2D Event messages came from the query response data. The query data comes back on the Program query, the ISY chose not to display the data separately. If something is not happening when the D2D Event messages are not displayed open a Ticket with UDI so they can look into the situation. My Current State is updated with the Program Query data without the D2D Event messages

I don't have access to the extended message data where I am but it looks like the difference is my thermo was Off when I ran the Program query. I changed it to Auto and get a trace more like what you are seeing. The Query data is there is both cases. The D2D Event messages which display some of the data from the query is the difference. The actual query data was returned in both modes. I ran the program query followed by a query from selecting the Main node Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:09 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1D 6C D6 1F 2E 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 92 96 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:09 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.6C.D6 1F 2E 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 92 96 06 (02) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:09 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.6C.D6 22.80.0B 2B 2E 02 (02) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:09 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:10 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 1D 6C D6 22 80 0B 11 2E 02 01 06 16 04 10 30 1E 32 01 09 88 24 B2 5B Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:10 PM : [Ext-Direct ] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:10 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1D 6C D6 1F 2E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:11 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.6C.D6 1F 2E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D2 06 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:11 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.6C.D6 22.80.0B 2B 2E 00 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:11 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:12 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 1D 6C D6 22 80 0B 11 2E 00 00 01 00 09 32 FF FF 03 00 FF 14 04 FF 01 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:12 PM : [Ext-Direct ] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:12 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 6C D6 0F 6A 00 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:12 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.6C.D6 0F 6A 00 06 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:12 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.6C.D6 22.80.0B 2B 6A 35 (35) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:12 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:29 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1F 0F B4 1F 2E 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 92 96 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:29 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.0F.B4 1F 2E 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 92 96 06 (02) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.0F.B4 22.80.0B 2B 2E 02 (02) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.0F.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 1F 0F B4 22 80 0B 11 2E 02 01 0F 16 04 23 30 1E 29 01 15 68 24 31 DA Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [Ext-Direct ] 1F.0F.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1F F B4 1] [CLISPC] [60] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] CLISPC 60 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1F F B4 1] [CLISPH] [72] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] CLISPH 72 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1F F B4 1] [CLIHUM] [41] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] CLIHUM 41 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:30 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1F 0F B4 1F 2E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:31 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.0F.B4 1F 2E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D2 06 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.0F.B4 22.80.0B 2B 2E 00 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.0F.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 1F 0F B4 22 80 0B 11 2E 00 00 01 00 15 28 02 E5 03 00 64 05 04 08 01 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [Ext-Direct ] 1F.0F.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1F F B4 1] [CLIMD] [2] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] CLIMD 2 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1F F B4 1] [CLIFS] [8] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] CLIFS 8 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1F F B4 1] [uOM] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 11:37:32 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] UOM 1

What actually happens with Program Query. My Program Query of 2441TH works. If Status 'SwitchLinc Dimmer' is 100% Then Set '2441TH - Main' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:30 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1D 6C D6 1F 2E 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 92 96 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:30 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.6C.D6 1F 2E 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 92 96 06 (02) Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:30 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.6C.D6 22.80.0B 2B 2E 02 (02) Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:30 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:31 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 1D 6C D6 22 80 0B 11 2E 02 01 06 14 37 26 30 1E 32 01 0E 88 24 B0 D2 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:31 PM : [Ext-Direct ] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:31 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1D 6C D6 1F 2E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D2 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:32 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.6C.D6 1F 2E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D2 06 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.6C.D6 22.80.0B 2B 2E 00 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:32 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 1D 6C D6 22 80 0B 11 2E 00 00 01 00 0E 32 FF FF 03 00 FF 14 04 FF 01 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [Ext-Direct ] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 6C D6 0F 6A 00 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.6C.D6 0F 6A 00 06 (00) Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.6C.D6 22.80.0B 2B 6A 35 (35) Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.6C.D6-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 6C D6 1] [CLISPC] [60] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [ 1D 6C D6 1] CLISPC 60 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 6C D6 1] [CLIHUM] [50] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [ 1D 6C D6 1] CLIHUM 50 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 6C D6 1] [sT] [53] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/08/2014 10:28:33 PM : [ 1D 6C D6 1] ST 53

Thermostat (Climate) Mode 0 = Off 1 = Heat 2 = Cool 3 = Auto These are from a 2491T1E (Venstar 1700). Likely the same for all.

There is a File | Restore Devices that rebuilds all the devices. It takes some time as all devices are restored. If using an ISY Pro turn Off updates to the battery devices (last Icon on right across top of display). If not a Pro all the battery devices will fail because the devices are asleep. After the Restore Devices completes activate (manual link state) one battery device at a time and do a Write Updates to device. When one battery device completes put the next one into linking mode and do its Write Updates ..;.;..

"When the scene was turned on ("If sunset, Then, Turn Scene X"), one of the lamps wouldn't respond. " This usually means the Insteon network has some problems. Scenes run from the PLM are not ACKed so there is no retry. A Direct command can have multiple retries. It is best to clean up the Insteon network as these problems always surface again.

Scenes turn all the Responders On/Off at the same time. An event that is controlling multiple devices, use of a Scene is normal. Direct device to device control, device A controlling device B, must be done with a Scene. Insteon devices use Scenes. Insteon devices cannot use Direct commands. When a Program is used (triggered by a time or device action) the same considerations apply. Yes, multiple devices can be turned On/Off with Direct commands but the devices react in sequence compared to reacting at the same time. If a single device is being controlled by the Program Direct commands are fine. Scenes are normal in Insteon.

This what I get when "Copy to Clipboard" followed by a Paste If Status 'ApplianceLinc' is Responding Then Send X10 'G1/Off (11)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Thanks PurdueGuy, I had never heard of such an issue before and I've been at this along time.. I'll be surprised if the replacements work differently.

The PLM guide says 10' max with 6' or less recommended. From the guide "Do not use a serial cable longer than 10’ (6’ or less is recommended)"

Right click on Program name, select bottom entry "Copy to Clipboard". Paste into post. Need to see actual Program. The If statement in first Program does not indicate whether Status or Control is being used. The first Program is triggered once when KPL button G is pressed On. Nothing else triggers Program so program activity happens only once. Something like If Status Kitchen KPL G is 100% And Status Door Sensor is On Then Wait 5 minutes EDIT: actually above does not work because there will be a 5 minute delay the second time door is opened.

Check the number of links in the PLM. If the PLM link database is reset you will see the symptoms described. File | Restore Modem (PLM) will rebuild the PLM.

No, not normal. Perhaps what the relays are turning On or a comm problem. Try a Direct On and Direct Off to each relay with the event viewer running at LEVEL 3. Look at the Hops Left=x count. Trace a few On and Off Direct commands to see if Hops Left count varies.

That was my question in the initial response. I was pretty certain a Wait would resolve the problem, it normally does, but do not know why now unless something changed that makes the Program trigger faster and thus issue the Scenes sooner. Insteon does not stack commands to avoid conflicts. Insteon does not put two messages on the Insteon network at the same time but does not analyze current activity, holding a command until the logical conflict is over. If an interaction creates a conflict on the Insteon network Insteon resolves it by terminating something. At insteon.com there is an insteondetails.pdf document that covers some of the internal workings of Insteon. I think that document covers Insteon only allowing a single Scene to run.

Inbound messages from a device start with 02 5x ........ The only inbound messages are those from 25.6F.7D where the button was pressed.

"I assume that means the device stated it's level is now zero. Hence the ISY updating the status to be Off." The ISY has no feedback from any of the devices in the Scene (no ACKs). That trace entry reflects the change in Status the ISY thinks happened as a result of the Scene execution. There are no more Insteon messages that the PLM would pass back to the ISY because there are no ACKs. These messages do no appear the second time because the ISY already has them marked Off. No change in Status the ISY knows about so no message about a state change That is good news about the effect of the Wait. It means the overlap of inbound messages from 25.6F.7D with the Scene outbound messages was the issue.

To the first question about not seeing Off commands, perhaps you were expecting 02 50 ........ response from each device. This would be an ACK which does not happen on Scenes invoked from PLM

"There are about 12 other devices in those scenes that are already off during that test captured in the log. Why aren't those devices sent 'Off' commands if the ISY always sends them regardless of device status?" Why do you think the other devices did not receive Off commands? "Is the inbound traffic from Device 25.6F.7D just repeated messages carried by the multitude other devices repeating the same 'Off' event? If not, what other traffic would it be? It is not a Controller for any scenes." Device 25.6F.7D like all devices that change Status is a Controller to the PLM. That relation is established when the device is added to the ISY. The addition traffic is part of the device paddle/button press. When a device paddle/button is pressed a number of messages are sent to PLM. The first message received results in the Program trigger which sends 3 Scene commands (two On and one Off). As those three Scene messages are processed by the PLM the additional messages from 25.6F.7D are being received. This message is the first message from button press. It results in the Program bring triggered. Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 25.6F.7D 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [std-Group ] 25.6F.7D-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [25 6F 7D 1] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [ 25 6F 7D 1] DOF 0 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [D2D-CMP 00FE] CTL [25 6F 7D 1] DOF op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [D2D-CMP 0039] CTL [25 6F 7D 1] DOF op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true The next three messages are the Program invoking the three Scenes Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 22 CF 11 00 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 33 CF 11 00 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 19 CF 13 00 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [ Time] 11:03:46 27(0) This is the next message from 25.6F.7D. Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 25.6F.7D 00.00.01 C7 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [std-Group ] 25.6F.7D-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. This message is the PLM accepting the first Scene command Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.22 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) This is next message from 25.6F.7D Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 25.6F.7D 25.26.E4 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 25.6F.7D-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. This is the PLM accepting the second Scene command Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.33 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [28 F8 63 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [ 28 F8 63 1] ST 0 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [28 E6 DA 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [ 28 E6 DA 1] ST 0 This is next message from 25.6F.7D Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 25.6F.7D 13.01.01 CB 06 00 (00) Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [std-Group ] 25.6F.7D-->13.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 25.6F.7D 13.01.01 C3 06 00 (00) Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [std-Group ] 25.6F.7D-->13.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. This is the PLM accepting the third Scene command Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.19 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) "Looking in the log, my second attempt after the first failure started at 11:04:09. The lights were successfully turned off with that attempt. But I don't actually see any 'Off' commands sent to them. ??" When a Scene is turned On/Off the Scene command is part of the Scene invocation. Note Red lines below. All devices physically see the Scene command on the powerline. Those devices which have a Responder link record that matches the Scene number react. Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 22 CF 11 00 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 33 CF 11 00 Sun 10/05/2014 11:03:43 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 19 CF 13 00

Side note, ISY should be on 4.2.15,

Device 25.6F.7D is still sending inbound traffic at the same time the three Scenes have been initiated. That could be interfering with the Scene activity but would not explain how it functioned for 9 months. The ISY sends the commands requested. That includes sending On commands to a device that is already On and Off commands to a device that is already Off.

The Admin Console communicates with the ISY over an IP address but that is normally the local network. Unless the modem/router would not provide a local network I would expect the Admin Console to talk to the ISY. However that is under control of the modem/router. Did existing devices show status changes in the Admin Console? ToggleLincs are powerline only so they could have issues that Dual Band devices do not.