CoolToys

@paulbates, I use a similar tactic, with two different VPN's, one for house and one for guest. I had to port my eisy out so that UDI could help a while ago, and I am about to close it back off and see if the Poly apps keep working. I see data going back and forth but can't see what it is. Sadly the Alexa multi room music feature is the reason I caved in the main living area, however I am considering another solution since it randomly stops the music quite often.

@larryllix and @paulbates, I ordered both a Sensi and Ecobee. I have a two zone house that is pretty well balanced so I don't need to play with vents or baffles either. Why I bought one of each ($20 cheaper and delivered today on Amazon instead of direct) was to see how much data the devices pass outside of the house. Neither is going to be connected to the Google/Alexa/Apple eco systems, and I am hopping eISY can control one of them without it checking into the host regularly. The entire reason I have an eISY is so my home can operate autonomously, but that dream appears to be fading. The new Crestron gear is starting to interest me.

@larryllix, thank you , ecobee is on the top, as I understand there is a way to disable the cloud portion. There are a couple of others that are "matter enabled" but as I found with my Greywind/zooksmart blinds, that works great for Apple/Google/Amazon, however UDI not so much. The other issue is the wall behind the thermostat was never finished from the original home and the shape of the ecobee means I have to finish, texture and repaint the wall, but it might be worth doing. No real need for remote sensors, but it looks like to get the upgraded model, the sensor is part of the deal? Back to this thread, everything is still running ok. Bedtime again took way longer than it used to but ran perfectly, Maybe it realized I am getting older so it slowed down to look like me walking through the house. The older Insteon motion sensor, is still acting up, so it is getting replaced with a new one, and last night my garage lights didn't go out and the AC said communication error. I queried the lights and they responded and turned off. I had that issue a while back and it was fixed by replacing the "CyberPower" brand of power strip on my work bench with APC.

New insteon owners don't have a thermostat and and as @larryllix noted the conversion isn't usable for me either so I am looking for a larger cooler looking thermostat that isn't tied to a paid or central service.

I didn't see this thread earlier, but I may be having similar issues so I started a new thread which may or may not be related. Here is what I have done so far. When ISY is in control, no LED on set button, when removed from ISY, red program button on, but still no response from buttons on device. Here is what I have done to troubleshoot: 1. Following @dbwarner5 advice, I attempted to reset but that didn't work since mine are both locked up. The ISY can change modes and temps but nothing else. None of the hard buttons work at all. 2. Remove the downstairs thermostat from eISY (AC) and see if the SET button would allow a reset, it still did not. I reset power to the HVAC, still same thing. 3. Tried @paulbates suggestion to pull power wire directly. I did this by pulling the face plate release and separating the circuit board from the terminal block. Image below in case someone isn't sure what I mean. Status after steps 1-3. What you see in photo below is all I get. My guess is brown out failure from multiple power surges over the last three weeks. If the moderators believe these threads are linked, please delete and/or migrate the other thread. Step 4. Attempted to reconnect to eISY with Autodiscover. Since Set button didn't work, not discoverable. Step 5. Attempted to reconnect to eISY with Insteon Address. It re-added but as three different devices this time, 1 main line, 1 cool line, and 1 heat line. This was interesting. Is this an eISY thing? Why is it different? The Cool Control and Heat Control lines (devices?) have no data but the main looks like the Upstairs unit I haven't messed with yet. Status now. I can send the time and date to the 2441TH (incorrect in previous thread). None of the buttons on the face work. Beep works. Changing temp in drop down does not, but using set point up or down does. When a change or command comes from the eISY (AC) the set let turns red. Still in C, no way to get F, not trying to be that European right now so still frustrated.

Agreed, bad insteon. One of the old motion sensors went out last night and my closet just flashed like a disco ball. Ever since selling my Lutron/Crestron dealership, I have been pretty happy with insteon, but then as I look back over the years and all the problems I have had, they always came down to two things. My programs in the iSY (HAI just worked but didn't have if then else, only if then so much harder to goof up the linear logic) or insteon. Now that both Thermostats have gone totally wonky, I am looking for all new lighting and HVAC control. The hard part is that no one has the outlets (not wall warts, but real outlets) and light switches except insteon. I am as you say "committed" to some extent. New insteon doesn't have thermostats, so today, I am trying to find a couple of matter thermostats that I can control with the AC. I would love to stay totally autonomous but the AC won't run my matter greywind blinds that Apple/Amazon and Google all find and control perfectly. My M1 can do basic lighting control, but not even as good as the Insteon hub. I don't want a thermostat that tells any of the big three I am home or not, so nest and company are off the list.

After a recent series of power outages (yes I ordered a Tesla power wall 3), both of my insteon 2441TH thermostats transitioned to centigrade. I still have the owners manuals but pushing the reset button doesn't do anything. In fact now none of the buttons work. I can no longer manually over ride the temperature. Does anyone know of a way to change it back via the eisy admin panel? Any one ever seen this? I don't see it as an option. I tried unplugging the PLM and still no luck. Too cheap to buy two more thermostats....

5th night update, So far so good. Thank you again for explaining the tokens so I would verify every scene I just assumed worked.

@larryllix, Last night using two computers in the bedroom to watch the logs, variables and states, I may have found it, and figured out why it is "random". Yes as both you and @dbwarner5 noted, something was corrupt. Not understanding the "token" it makes more sense now. Several of the scenes didn't work and in program code for some reason I changed directly to the device instead of fixing the scene then, but it worked so I didn't think about it. After fixing scenes (deleting and rebuilding the three that didn't work) and replacing the direct commands to scene commands in the Program "then" and "else" lines, something different happened. There was a motion sensor at the top of the stairs with a low battery that was randomly sending "On". When Bedtime was pressed, there are two different programs triggered by the motion sensor. That was stopping the bedtime run and setting the house back to "occupied". Why it took as long as an hour is still a mystery, and why I say I "may" have found it. This is a flaw in my logic where the Bedtime was setting the house to inactive, and the stairwell was resetting to active before Bedtime could complete. I added a statement to the "occupied" program to check if "$sBedtime" was = "1". Scene fixed new, battery, variable state changes moved. and so far so good. Fingers crossed since I hit the road again and my wife has early days all week. Everything done last 48 hours: 1. Elk Poly upgraded and rebooted 2. Notifications poly rebooted. 3. Three Scenes that were for three way switches, two switches one load, all deleted and rebuilt with a new name 4. Device names in programs replaced with scene names 5. Battery in motion sensor replaced. 6. Added "sBedtime=0" to Occupied check program 7. eisy backed up and restarted. Thank you both again for all the ideas and things to check.

@larryllix, I agree with @dbwarner5, great test, and I get a similar result when I used "0" and "1" rather than True/False. So I used the same methodology for my existing program, and all three lights went off, but when I changed to 5 seconds, then the lights stopped where I moved my variable "sAtomic_Test". Thank you, and I have moved my resets to the bottom on all three programs that use this, and I will try and figure out what else could have been turning the lights off 30 minutes later. And @dbwarner5, no I did not delete and rewrite the Bedtime program and since it has worked for 10 days now, I am not sure how I will know if that is the fix unless it fails again, but I will do that just in case. An interesting side note. All of my notifications related to the ELK Alarm stopped working on the 20th. That is about the same as the last time it went wonky. So not only am I going to rewrite the program and stuff it in a folder, I am going to look at all of the places I use the ELK poly. Thank you both, for the time and I will post here if I figure out what the issue is. The Elk module says it is working and needs an update so clearly I have some work to do. Update, the "notification" module wasn't working, so a quick restart and notifications work. So... I wrote the new program but left it disabled so I can see what happens tonight. Question then comes up with the "Bedtime" due to it's size, the momentary "off" starts the program, but the state of that switch never turns "on", so this is probably where I have some things really jacked up. There is a 6 button keypad on each side of the bed, one old insteon, one new, so one appears as a 5 button, one as a six. Should build a scene that activates when "bedtime" no longer applies to set both buttons to on or is that way over thinking the issue? Update 2 - I started testing every single scene and program one by one, and found that three of the "scenes" do not work at all. They are three way lights with an insteon dimmer at each end. Three others work. Turning on the master works. The slave does not set the master, and the master does not turn on the slave. In the Admin Panel, when I try to turn the scenes on and off, nothing happens. I deleted the scene and rebuilt each of them, so there is clearly something that didn't migrate right from the ISY or got corrupt along the way.

@larryllix, I understand where ISY came from, I started out with a 99 when Leviton purchased HAI and made a mess of a great product before discontinuing it. That said, the program you said will never run works just fine. In both versions, I have tested each and they both work exactly the same. While I trust you have a deeper knowledge of ISY than I do, I do like to test things before I take them as gospel. That Late_Arrival program is at least 5 years old and hasn't failed once. Yes I have searched for that variable and it is in two places. "Auto_Late_Arrival" where it is set to "1" and "Auto_Late_Arrival_Off" where it is set to "0". The same methodology is used for "Late_Night_Snack" as well, basically the opposite of arriving late, it is getting up after bedtime and leaving a bedroom. It lights the same path backwards. Again with "sSnack" at the beginning of the code, the lights go out on time in order. So again I am confused by this atomic thing since the code works just like old BASIC. The only one doing random things is the Bedtime program, and it hasn't gone wonky in 10 days now. It ran very slowly last night, taking about twice as long as normal. The place I am watching to see if I have a code error is if it is "Night" and the house isn't occupied and it becomes occupied. The value of "sOccupied", "sGuest" and "sNight" changes the lighting in the house. If no one is home, only the lights which are visible through windows on the outside of the house come on. If there are guests, a couple more lights in that section. When we come home and the house was empty a couple more lights come on and the states all adjust. Last night we came home late, logged in from the driveway and verified the house was in Night Empty mode, and I watched it changed to Occupied mode when I opened the garage door. Bedtime worked fine, so I am still stuck as to why on occasion it acts like the alarm is set or someone is moving around the house downstairs. Disabling or Removing the ELK poly may be the next step. The other thing I want to dig deeper into is the autonomy of the eisy with Poly's. Is the eisy dependent on an internet connection? Once I pay for a poly is the eisy autonomous or connected? If it is connected, why not just use Alexa or Siri which both control my Matter blinds just fine as well? I started with HAI and moved to the ISY because I wanted to build an "Autonomous" smart house, not a "Connected" house dependent on an outside service. One other possibility is that the internet connection was not working when the "bedtime" program went wonky. All of this goes back to my original thread about wanting the logs to see what programs run when.

@larryllix, and @dbwarner5 I too mark all of my variables with an "s" or "i" prefix as @dbwarner5 saw in the "Auto_Late_Arrival" program that started this part of the discussion. After reading @dbwarner5 other post, about atomic and re-evaluation, I will agree like the others, with a IT degree and programming background, this is odd logic. It implies that I should remove the waits and just use other programs to delay the lights turning off like old BASIC subroutines. If UDI chose to do this "atomic" re-evaluation at each point for some reason, that is their choice. It seems like a lot of extra work for UDI to make this happen since I don't think this is a core Linux feature. The part that really throws it off is that both programs below do exactly the same thing except for when the $sLate_Arrival is changed to "0". The lights go off +-2 minutes of the program no matter where I put the state change. Either way this isn't helping find the randomness problem I have with the bedtime program that works 98% of the time. Auto Late Arrival Auto Off - [ID 0010][Parent 0001] If $sLate_Arrival is 1 Then Wait 10 minutes $sLate_Arrival = 0 Set 'Garage Drive Spots' Off Wait 20 minutes Set 'Kitchen Under Cabinet' Off Wait 10 minutes Set 'Downstairs Office Lamp' Off Auto Late Arrival Auto Off - [ID 0010][Parent 0001] If $sLate_Arrival is 1 Then Wait 10 minutes Set 'Garage Drive Spots' Off Wait 20 minutes Set 'Kitchen Under Cabinet' Off Wait 10 minutes Set 'Downstairs Office Lamp' Off $sLate_Arrival = 0

@larryllix, @dbwarner5, I have set up two programs with the exact same event results as above, one with the state variable reset to zero at the top and one at the bottom. Each setting three lights with 10 minutes in each wait statement. Both work which as a programmer makes no sense. Back to my first question, once a program starts, it should complete. The wait should have no effect. If it did then the program for the garage light should not work but it does. The same program for the stairwell light likewise should go into an infinite loop if that is the case and never solve, yet it too turns off and the state goes to "0" in 10 minutes. I don't get why one of them doesn't fail and I don't get why they both work. The re-evaluation thing is an odd "feature" that doesn't follow standard logic but if that is how the eisy is supposed to work, then why does the program with the variable reset at line 2 work? The only thing I can conclude is that the "reevaluation" isn't happening and once the execution of the "then" statement starts, it completes. I will keep testing and watching to see what it does.

@dbwarner5, I use the same method for lots of temporary lighting like "snack walk" or "garage lights", and all work fine. Actually, I don't understand why the logic would "recheck the wait", once a state is valid to start a program shouldn't it finish? And isn't the reverse true that if it rechecks should it start at the top and get stuck in an infinite loop on the first wait line? I'll have to go back and look at the ISY programming manual before I make that change. Still no idea what I did wrong on the bedroom lights. They have been normal for a week, and I haven't changed anything.

After a recent power failure both of my 2441TH Insteon Thermostats have gone to Celsius only. I have tried the factory reset however none of the buttons work. I can communicate via the AC on eisy, but that is it. i can't manually change the temperature either which did work. Maybe they fried? I powered the HVAC off and then back on, pulled the PLM and tried to reset that way, but no luck. All programs are in F, not C, so as a stop gap I am changing them. Anyone know of another thermostat that doesn't need Poly's or add ons to be used by UD eisy if I need to replace these? C isn't going to work for Wife long term.

@IndyMike, Below is where I set sOccupied_Guest_Edit and how I clear it if no one is in there for an hour. There is a recording studio and editing room we use as an emergency bedroom. When someone is in there we don't want to turn the lights off on them. In most cases, that area is off. There is a second "Bedtime" program called "Bedtime_Edit_Guest" that is a copy paste of the bedtime less the lights in the editing room and recording studio. That section hasn't been lighting back up. @dbwarner5, Good Question, the lights in our bedroom are the first thing that come on, hence the reason I wanted to see the logs of what program was running so I can try and figure out what is triggering it. The odd thing is that there are three programs that all kick on, none related and it isn't consistent. I noticed today that one of the "disabled" programs I use to test was no longer disabled. From time to time it looks like things change in the program without my input. I do back up every time I make a change so if it goes wonky I can quickly unwind it. Sometimes it is related to the alarm, other times it acts like someone arrived late after the system was put to bed. Most of the time it is the third program below that triggers and why I started checking state variables. One thing to note is that with a late arrival sOccupied is also changed to "1" until the MB_Door_AllOn is pressed off to rerun the Bedtime program and zero out the occupied status. I use "occupied" to mean someone moving around a section of the house. Some final notes. There is something going on with the mix of old and new insteon. Sometimes a program will run and all but one light will go out, and then it goes out at some random time later. I have looked at my PLM to make sure I haven't overloaded it, but yes there are a lot of devices. When I swapped to the eisy, a lot of things changed, and I haven't had time to really understand the whole Poly thing. If the internet isn't connected, is my system not going to work right because it can't communicate with the Poly? The whole reason I don't just use Alexa/Apple Home/Google Home is I want an autonomous stand alone system. I want a truly smart home not just a "connected home". Control 4 has been on my radar as have swapping all of the Insteon lights for Lutron. The PLM has been a weak link in my system since the first one. I am on the 5th PLM now. The problem with Control4/Lutron is that I no longer own an integration company and don't have the access to the pro level stuff. I don't want to be dependent on the installation company. Guest Edit Area In Use Occupied_Guest_Edit - [ID 0044][Parent 0001] If 'EditRoom.1 Motion' Status is On And $sOccupied_Guest_Edit is 0 Then $sOccupied_Guest_Edit = 1 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') // Both the "Wakeup Mode" and "occupied test" Occupied Zero set by "Bedtime Program" . Used to turn off the energy saving modes and make the house comfortable and lit properly for people being home. Occupied Guest Check - [ID 0045][Parent 0001] If $sOccupied_Guest_Edit is 1 And Program 'Occupied_Guest_Edit' is False Then Wait 1 hour $sOccupied_Guest_Edit = 0 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') // Not verified - idea is to set edit area to empty if no one is inside for over an hour and house is closed up. Energy Saving Strategy. Late Arrival Lights Auto Late Arrival - [ID 000D][Parent 0001] If 'ELK Alarm / Garage Big' Logical Status is Violated And 'Garage Drive Spots' Status is Off And ( $sNight is 1 Or $sEarly_Morning is 1 ) Then Set 'Garage Drive Spots' On Set 'Downstairs Office Lamp' On Set 'Kitchen Under Cabinet' On $sLate_Arrival = 1 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') // Lights up a path to bed when arriving after house shuts down or bedtime program runs. Auto Late Arrival Auto Off - [ID 0010][Parent 0001] If $sLate_Arrival is 1 Then Wait 10 minutes $sLate_Arrival = 0 Set 'Garage Drive Spots' Off Wait 20 minutes Set 'Kitchen Under Cabinet' Off Wait 10 minutes Set 'Downstairs Office Lamp' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') //shuts house back down after a late arrival if no other events are triggered. The Program That usually restarts Night Daily Home - [ID 0003][Parent 0001] If $sOccupied_Main is 1 And $sNight is 1 Then Set 'Laundry Toe Kick' On Set 'Entry Art Niche' On Wait 1 minute Set 'MB Cabinets' On 70% Wait 1 minute Set 'Kelly Office Lamp Scene' On Set 'Stairwell 3 Way' On 50% Wait 30 seconds Set 'LR Lamp Scene' On Set 'Downstairs Hallway' On 50% Set 'HallwayOutletCurio' On Wait 30 seconds Set 'Upstairs Hallway 3 Way' On 50% Wait 30 minutes Set 'House Front' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

@dbwarner5, yes I did the find/replace looking for the state variables to see if I left one somewhere. No luck yet. 95% of the time when I press the MB_Door_Keypad_AllOn "Off" the "Bedtime" program runs just fine regardless of the alarm being set. Program below. I referenced this in the thread about looking for a log of programs running to try and figure out the error. On occasion the lights in our bedroom will randomly come back on. The only time this should happen is if the alarm goes off. I disabled that program and the "error" did not go away. When I say "randomly", sometimes it will be 30 seconds other times several hours later. Sometimes it won't happen for a week. I thought it could be a motion sensor triggering, however when I brought the laptop to the bedroom to see which sensor it could be, I found state variables not equal to zero when they should be zero after this runs. Last night it worked normally so I have no idea what is causing it. Yes each motion sensor can reset "sOccupied_Main" to 1, but none of the associated programs ran and sOccupied_Main remained at "0". What I did see was that two of the "states", sEarly_Morning and sNight were both "1" which should never happen. After a manual reset of the variables, the system was fine for the night. BedTime - [ID 0016][Parent 0001] If ( 'MB Window Keypad.On' is switched Off Or 'MB Door Keypad 70 9B C0All On' is switched Off ) And $sOccupied_Guest_Edit is 0 Then $sEarly_Morning = 0 $sSnack_Walk = 0 $sAlarm = 0 $sKitchen_Motion = 0 $sNightAway = 0 $sOccupied_Main = 0 $sPartyDay = 0 Set 'MB Kelly Watch Winder' Fast Off Set 'Garage Lights' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Kitchen Main Lights 3 way' Off Set 'House Front' Off Set 'Garage Front Porch Lite' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Holiday Lights' Off Set 'Back Patio' Off Wait 4 seconds Set 'Dining' Off Wait 4 seconds Set 'LR Pool Table' Off Set 'LR Dining Lamp' Fast Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'HallwayOutletCurio' Off Set 'LR Center Outlet Top' Fast Off Set 'LR Center Outlet Bot' Fast Off Set 'Dining Room Main' Fast Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'LR Lamp Scene' Off Set 'Downstairs Office Lamp' Off Set 'Downstairs Hallway' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Entry Art Niche' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Stairwell 3 Way' Off Set 'Upstairs Hallway 3 Way' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Kelly Office Lamp Scene' Off Wait 4 seconds Set 'Studio Fan' Off Set 'Studio Button Light' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Studio A' Off Set 'Studio B' Off Set 'Studio C' Off Wait 4 seconds Set 'MB Cabinets' Off Set 'Movie' Off Set 'Party Night' Off Wait 4 seconds Set 'Party Day' Off $sBedtime = 1 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') // Puts house to "sleep" and sets sOccupied to 0. Manual activation only by buttons in Master Bedroom. Here is the only place where sNight and sEarly_Morning are referenced Night to Early Morning - [ID 0047][Parent 0001] If Time is 4:00:00AM Then $sNight = 0 $sEarly_Morning = 1 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') // Used to define the difference between going to bed late and waking up very early. 0400 is an arbitrary number.

Sorry for the late delay and all the ideas to check I am on the road a lot, hence the long code effort to both make the house appear lived in and save energy along the way. @dbwarner5, yes the times are all correct however, both of my #Insteon thermostats have locked up, and my system shows several short power outages and one long one recently while I was away, so there were some other things out of sync. Almost enough to think about adding batteries to the house. @IndyMike, I switched from program statuses to state variables a long time ago but there could still be one hidden in the mass of 15 years of adding to my program. I'll keep looking. @Geddy, the other thread I was referring to is this one. The problem vanished again for several weeks. Maybe I am asking questions wrong. The one thing that I know this time I didn't know last time is that the "states" are somehow either not changing, or changing back, which leads to @indymike suggestions in both the lower thread and this there is something hiding in my program. That is why I was trying to see which scenes run in a log format. After making the changes to see the status of the house via a keypad everything worked fine for almost exactly a month and then the lights started going nuts again. My solution is to press the MB Off to trigger the "Bedtime" program and then go in the other room and pull the PLM out of the outlet for the night. Not a wife friendly solution.

@larryllix, yes I understand the program is "green" on the main Programs/Details tab, and I guess that is what I don't understand is why that is "true" when it is not? If the eisy is based on "states" or "conditions", sunset is a time as defined in the header bar isn't it? So How can I make an event only occur at sunset? This is the same code that has been in the system for over 10 years, and last night when I hit bedtime, which changes sNight to 0, seconds later sNight was 1 again. Maybe I am looking at the wrong issue if Sunset true is normal all the time. If that is the case, I am back to square one, trying to see what is turning lights on after I have gone to bed. the bBedtime button/program work 80% of the time. Now the only other commonality is that it happens when I need to get up early, but the system has no way of knowing that until I get up and set off a sensor in the hallway. Last night both "sEarly_Morning" and "sNight" were "1" which should not happen. That program is here too. I manually changed them both to zero and hit bedtime. This morning they are both still zero.

Yes, The program triggered by Sunset appears to be the bad actor. I was mistaking it for the alarm being triggered in the previous threads, both are closed so I couldn't continue the threads there. That is why I brought the laptop in the bedroom last night. Walking back to my office set off so many other programs and changed the "state" of the house. Last night I started by looking at the "state" and "Early Morning" was "1". At 4am daily I change the "sNight" variable to "0" and change "Early Morning" to "1" so that different things happen. It is the changeover from arriving late at night to leaving early in the morning for work. I want the house to do different things. I am still working on the "home feature" so it can transition based on if we are home or not. I also added "sEarly_Morning" ="0" to the Sunrise cleanup since it has remained at "1" from time to time. Last night at 9:33 when I selected "bBedTime", the "pHome-Sunset" program ran and then the cascade of events, I looked at the "states" to see why that would happen and noticed that "Sunset" was "True" which quickly reset "sNight" to "1" This error should only happen if I press bedtime exactly at or just prior to sunset. Assuming my understanding of state and condition is correct. The entire program if statement for the "pSunset" program is "If Sunset" Since the Sunset program was somehow "true" at 9:33pm all of the related variables reset and programs that light up the house started running. I have a very complex system, and use fewer "scenes" than others. I used to own a security company and scenes don't look "lived in" to pros, so the lights come on more like the old lutron "vacation mode" when no one is home. Although the eisy is much bigger and faster, I feel like the ISY ran my programs faster. I troubleshoot very simply and try to fix one bug at a time. Right now, I am trying to figure out why a program based on sunset could be true at any time other than sunset. Once in a while I think if the eisy is busy at Sunset it misses it. I have come home to a dark house from time to time as well but as soon as I open the garage door, the programs run because sNight =1 and "sOccupied" is also then 1. I haven't pursued that issue, but it may be related. 99 bugs in the code, 99 Bugs in the code Fix one now take it down 104 bugs in the code.

For a while I have been troubleshooting lights that randomly come on. Always when I need to get up early. Tonight it started so I brought a laptop into my bedroom so I could troubleshoot without setting of any motion sensors so the house didn't think I was getting up. There is a program "bedtime" which I have posted and discussed in other threads. At the end randomly some lights come on as if the alarm was being triggered. Tonight I pulled up the programs and two state variables were wrong but most importantly the "Sunset" program whose condition is "If Sunset" and nothing else was true. If I understand correctly this is only true at Sunset and should run once a day. It is 9:33 pm and Sunset is showing as true. Anyone else having issues like this? Very Random, has worked perfect for over a month and today it forgot the time and started turning on lights like it was sunset. The easy is supposed to be faster but I noticed the "sunset + 15" program didn't run until nearly an hour later. as well. Yes I rebooted.

@IndyMike, Thank you, you did lead me down the right path. By setting the led to ON 6/OFF 0 I could see that the "C" button was in fact off. Everything went normal. Pressing the C button after the bedtime program ran triggered the alarm lights program as it should. Then reset for the big one, pressing C did nothing before hitting off. After hitting off, it made the house go wonky. I turned off C, hit bedtime again and the system recovered. Hitting all off and opening a door, triggering the alarm, the C lit up and the lights started coming on as they should in the order I want. Keep me in the dark, intruder in the light. Why the Master Keypad Off doesn't show in the Log I guess is the mystery. The motion sensor in the Garage shows on, then the lights come on and then the sensor shows off. I use a program to delay the lights turning off by 20 minutes. Either big door opening or motion turns on the lights and starts the delay timer, that's why so much shows up in the log for the garage lights turning on. Not sure why different random alarm related programs trigger when C is on before off is pressed. Nor do I Understand the timing of those events. Since I have a repeatable experiment to prove my programming ignorance I think I won't pursue that question. I went the lazy way on the LED problem. Using the Green permanent marker to make the LED on the "OFF" button dark enough to not keep me awake worked very well. Since Insteon quit making color kits, I wish I had thought of this sooner. I bought a giant permanent marker kit at Costco.

@IndyMike Thank you for looking over the logs. I am not super clear on the first question. I simply use the press of the MB Door Keypad off button as the trigger to start the program. Maybe I am using trigger in the wrong context. Maybe I mean to say it creates a temporary state? Either way, I am not sure how that relates. Selecting "Buttons Toggle Mode" at the bottom of the admin panel for the MB Door Keypad shows all 5 buttons as "Toggle". I do agree it is interesting that the MB Kelly Watch Winder goes to off, and there isn't anything about MB Keypad All On - off. side note, I do hope UDI can make the bottom bar scroll someday in the admin panel. I just discovered "buttons grouping" when I stretch it across two screens to find the toggle mode button. What else am I missing? As far as the second question, yes I used to have a 3 watt bulb in the curio and after talking with Steve (UDI/Insteon) I went to a 6 Watt and turned off the "auto on sensing" feature. Since then, the curio has been stable except during these events. The i3 Outlet in my office has a 9 watt bulb and regularly shows "communication error" for some reason. I have replaced the outlet twice and can't find any interference there. Third question. Short answer: A scene isn't consistent in its order of operation and doesn't give the illusion of being lived in. Also a program lets me set the lights in the guest bedroom if no one is there but not turn out the lights if they are there. Same program three less lines based on the state of "sOccupied_Guest" Long Answer (if interested else skip to next paragraph) When I owned a Lutron Dealer that was also a Security company we sold HAI Omni's and Lutron because they created a "vacation mode" with random light changes. Through the security company we learned the more it looks like a person walking through the house the more likely the baddies move to the next house. It was more effective than an alarm or a dog. Eventually, Lutron created "learning mode" which was amazing. After a month I never touched a light again. The whole reason I went ELK M1/ISY 16 years ago is that HAI was no longer available and the ISY could do this quite well with a little effort. And I sold the Lutron dealer and was too cheap to pay retail for it with SmartHome just down the street from me. Also when I walk in at night there is button downstairs I can press that does a similar thing and the house follows me to bed. Cool nerd stuff I guess. The program itself has worked pretty solid for over 15 years. Unless I do something stupid like attach a button to an alarm event and also to a scene that is. You are probably sending me down the right path. I now realize I made that C button a Panic/status button by making it a controller/responder to the elk. That may have been "on" last night and as you noted with the off button it doesn't show in the log. I have no way to know without going to my office and logging in (which does all kinds of other things) since I haven't figured out a way to make the led dark on all six buttons when they are off and on only when one of the buttons is "on". In my bedroom I didn't have instant feedback of the status. I took a green sharpie and made my own color change kit with the clear keypad covers. On the off button, I colored both sides and the back of the off button so hopefully that is dark enough. I am going to leave all programming as is and see if that was the problem. Yes you are correct about other programs, and here is the odd one. Each time the lights came back on a different program ran. One is based on Sunset the others based on the ELK alarm status just as the C button problem that started this thread was. The eisy is on a large battery back up and didn't reboot so it isn't a catchup problem. Learned that one already and the first Cyberpower UPS did all kinds of weird stuff to my system. Stay tuned...

@IndyMike. Sort of, the KPL C by the bed was simply a responder so I got a polite alert of someone at the gate. We use a KPL in the office to see motion in the house. Each sensor lights up a key while it is on. I found it an easy way to find our previous dog based on motion when she was going deaf. I don't know why it activated the A button, but removing it from the scene fixed it for a while but.... Well, now it gets fun. After a few months of flawless operation, the lights have a mind of their own again. I went through this list until I caved and unplugged the plm. I wish I could blame the white hat hacker next door but I am sure this is me again. Only program changed since last time this appeared fixed was an auto garage light and that was a week ago. I changed the duration the light was on and removed a trigger from the if statement. Here are todays logs and as requested the "bedtime" program. The error at the end is the time of wife tolerance limit and PLM unplugging. I included last nights logs showing what happened. The error in my office is sporadic, and I have replaced the outlet with the new i3 and added a dual mode switch to control it on the same phase and still have comm errors from time to time. It was way worse with Cyberpower UPS in the house. Here it is. I pressed the "bedtime" button at 9:23, "Kelly Watch Winder" is off. That is at the top of the program so I know the eisy/plm "heard" the command. The lights started coming back on so at 9:41 I set the alarm and tried again. The hallway curio is the first device that turns off and right back on at 9:23 and again after the alarm set and I press bedtime again at 9:43:56. The "MB Door Keypad 70.9BC0Foyer" button does also change from off to on which was the issue I fixed before by removing it from the "front lights" scene. I also notice later that the MB Window Keypad.Office and .Stairs come on. Almost like the programming rolled back. .Stairs should only light up when the stair motion is on. and then the closet.stairs should come on as well and it does not so this makes little sense. The thermostat is changing from "night" to "day" temps also at the end which is odd. After I try and get some sleep, I will plug the PLM back in. This is a new MB Door Keypad btw. I replaced it as a precaution last time, so this is very likely another "feature" I accidentally programmed in, or created by a manual link. Again I will check after some sleep, you can see the lights have been turning on for hours, and not in any consistent way like a program running. Unlike other threads, this isn't hourly and I don't see a pattern yet. I left the program in .iox since I can't seem to copy in a readable format. There is as much as I can put in a screenshot here too. I thought the export feature would let me paste a formatted version, but it created a solid blob. I use a Mac so was hoping to drag copy paste, but... there I go again wanting things to work the apple way. BedTime.v5.8.4__Wed 2024.09.11 02.30.00 AM.iox UDReport truckated.pdf UDReportNormalNight.pdf

If the LED has a rocker on them they aren't likely to be designed to dim and they will do odd things depending on how you dim and will fail sooner. Flickering and humming are normal with a lot of switched LED panels when you try to dim them. It might be better to go with a lutron dimmer and the adapter package with new LED Lights that @peterathans suggested if you want the lights to last and have full control of them.