upstatemike

Those links aren't tied back to inventory in any way. That automated system will happily keep accepting orders for stock that doesn't exist until somebody remembers to edit the product page. Maybe your order will ship before the barrel runs dry or maybe it won't. Either way there will be no delay in charging your credit card or sucking cash from you via Paypal.

You've got me there. I've never heard of an automation company leaving a website up after they are no longer making products... http://jdstechnologies.com/stargate.html

No actually I'm sad but that is just the cost of being right about something so tragic.

Why? I totally agreed with you that Insteon products are definitely NOT discontiued... they just have widespread mounting delivery issues with no fixed timeframe to resolve them.

So Insteon products are definitely NOT discontinued... they are just on hold, in increasing numbers, forever.

Insteon products are definitely NOT discontinued... they just don't make them anymore.

I have been through several Zooz support folks at this point and was just told they are escalating to a supervisor. No guarantee but at least they are taking the issue seriously. I think it might help if they hear from more people on this issue.

I don't have a narrative. Just observations that lead to an undeniable conclusion. I wish I was wrong but unfortunately that never happens.

Not everybody who is late is going out of business but everybody who is going out of business is likely going to be late. And we have already established that Smarthome is going out of business so just saying I should have seen it coming.

Be careful what you wish for ... because we will totally grant it!

Guess I should have seen that coming. Difficult to meet delivery dates on new products when you are simultaneously going out of business.

I just installed one of these in a Homeseer system and have the same issue. No way to associate or reference the buttons to stay in synce when the load of the other device is changed locally. Going to try changing the LED "Always On/Always Off" settings to see if this solves the problem. Also might try installing it into Hubitat to see what my options are there. I don't currently have a Z-Wave radio attached to ISY/Polisy so can't replicate what you are doing. If I come up with a clever solution (doubtful) I ill let you know. Best answer would be for Zooz to do a firmware upgrade to provide better access to control the state of the 4 scene buttons. It would also be helpful if you put in a ticket to Zooz to raise awareness of the issues around this use case. I have one open and the more demand the more likely they will address it.

October 1st! That means the "Late September" Nokia shipments are on their way. Looking forward to seeing feedback here shortly from those who pre-ordered some to test.

With no plugin modules I wonder how Ninsteon manages bridging across the two power legs? I suppose you could hope to get lucky and have two switches end up on opposite legs and be in RF range of each other to provide the coupling but that seems iffy at best.

I don't disagree. I'm just pointing out that there may be a workaround for the lack of an API if somebody really wanted to incorporate Ninsteon devices into their system. Without plugin modules or motion sensors I don't see much use for these products standing on their own. They just don't do anything particularly useful.

I wonder how much control these devices will support through a voice assistant? If Alexa can control it Ninsteon must allow her (it) to create devices to work with. If these devices are able to be put into Alexa routines than they are available to be manipulated via an ISY. I use this method to interface LoRa and other things that do not offer an official API and it works surprisingly well. I also notice there are no motion sensors, or sensors of any kind from Nokia. Apart from schedules or sunrise/sunset triggers what kind of automation can you actually do with this system? I guess we will know soon. "Shipping late September" means the preorders should start going out no later than Thursday!

That should be easy. Almost anybody would be better than the numbskull who manages my system now.

I don't know. I think I get more value from the entertainment of this topic than I ever got from using the Insteon product itself.

I don't know about anybody else but my reasons are as follows: * I only deal with retrofit situations in old houses (nothing less than 100 years old). Existing fixtures often do not have switches or any way to wire to one. They have pull chains or some other fixture mounted switch. The easiest upgrade by far is to throw in a smart bulb plus a wireless switch and in minutes you have a better user experience in that room even if you don't do any further automating. Small fixture modules are sometimes a possible alternative but many light fixtures have no space for them and old electrical boxes definitely don't. * Even if you think color bulbs look gimmicky or dumb the ability to adjust the color temperature of a white bulb can be very nice. I would also note that it is a moot point with Insteon since they currently have no smart bulbs, no screw-in modules, and no plug in modules (probably on account of going out of business and all). I have 6 Insteon bulbs in my own bedroom wall sconces that I could never wire to a switch. Fortunately for me I also have 6 of the old Insteon screw in modules I can revert to when the bulbs ultimately die. I'm pretty sure neither of those products are coming back into production. Maybe Ninsteon will add plug in modules to their product line eventually but I don't think "eventually" exists for legacy Insteon.

Yet somehow not addressed by Ninsteon.

I don't think we have come to a consensus yet on what the best future path would be. It kind of looks like it may be a whole new protocol probably called "Radio Control RA4 ZB-Wave" or something. If you want something today the best match for the devices you have called out is probably going to be Z-Wave or Zigbee. I don't think you can get where you want to go with Wi-Fi. Caseta would also be a reliable alternative but the device selection is very limited so you would have to see if it covers everything you need.

Still shows page 41 for me. Doesn't matter anyway as we are in the final days of classic Insteon so there will be nothing left to talk about. Anybody get their Nokia preorder stuff yet? Just over a week left in the month so we should be seeing it soon!

I understand that thinking but still not 100% convinced because there just aren't any hardware controllers that include the majority of things I use Home Automation for. Lighting and audio and thermostats and cameras and motion detectors are all things that I am actually disengaging from my HA system to some extent because I can find stand alone solutions that do the same thing more simply. Motion sensing light switches, switches with built-in timers, programmable thermostats, and security cameras are all things that can be installed using stand alone products with only minor additional advantages if you incorporate them into a central controller. Things that really benefit me from Home Automation from my perspective are the integrations you can't find out of the box solutions for. Some examples from my system: Having the music mute in a room (and only that room) when the phone rings or is picked up to make a call or there is an intercom announcement or a critical system warning. Verbal alerts when significant unexpected events happen with key equipment like the generator, well pump, furnaces, etc. So I guess I don't need HA to do most remote control or automatic control functions so much as I need it to keep me apprised in a timely fashion of what is going on in areas I cannot see or to create new functionality that is not available in any existing product. If I were to go with something like Hubitat I would not use much of what they offer because it is not that useful while at the same time I would miss a lot of functionality that they do not support. Not picking on Hubitat as the same is true with pretty much any single box solution.

Not challenging anything you say but I will note my experience with respect to troubleshooting is the opposite. Having discrete modules makes it easier for me to track down problems bcause I can instantly see if a problem is only occurring with Z-Wave devices (for example) so it is a problem in the Z-Wave subsystem v.s. sometheing that affects multiple technologies and therefore a problem in the controller or another shared sytem. Your example of the 994 being reliable is true but the technologies a 994 can handle is so limited that without a Polisy it is really just an interface, not a controller. What I can do with just Insteon and Z-Wave alone represents such a small percentage of the total Home Automation picture as to be almost insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I will tell you why I want that even if nobody agrees with me. I am not advocating this or criticizing other views and am open to being persueded differently but my thinking at this point is: * I tend to avoid single points of failure. This is not some crazy notion of theoretical situations that will likely never happen but rather the product of long experience where too much centralization has gotten me into bad situations in the past. * I don't have the financial or time resources to replace an entire HA system if it gets outdated. I need to be able to tackle upgrades incrementally. For example I can easily change from 500 series Z-Wave to 700 series by just changing the associated "dongles" without disturbing anything else. Sort of a "future proof" architecture. * I like to experiment with new stuff so it is much more practical to have a framework that lets me tack on something new without disturbing the rest of my "production" configuration. * I have an environment that is not RF friendly and requires widely distributed radios to work properly (I have 11 Wi-Fi Access Points for example). I know this scale is an uncommon situation but I am more comfortable following this principle than trying to blast everything from a single radio source. * Some technologies have hard limits (Hue) or best practices limits (Z-Wave) to being scaled out so a modular approach is optimal (or required). I like using network attached interfaces for Z-Wave or Zigbee and place them in the most optimal locations from an RF perspective. *There is (and never will be) a single hardware HA controller that does everything I want it to do so I don't see any way of avoiding the "dongle" architecture anyway. Having a controller with a few built-in interfaces like Z-Wave and Zigbee just seems silly since there are so many other things that need to connect to the system. If you have to connect to other interfaces anyway you might as well make that the standard architecture for all interfaces. * Sometimes different devices, protocols, or companies get discontinued or fade away or piss me off so I like having the freedom to excise them from my system without disrupting everything. * All companies have resource limitations and have to prioritize what they work on. An HA Controller manufacturer trying to be a jack of all trades but master of none is not going to produce a "best in class" logic engine or user interface. An architecture where the manufacturer can focus on those things and let external partner resources handle the expertise in each of the interfaces seems like the most practical path to getting the best overall system possible. * A corollary to the above is speed of innovation. If an "all in one" system has to maintain regular updates for every interface they support, how much time and resource will they have left to innovate? At what point does that interface maintenace become or exceed 100% of resources and things start to actually stagnate or degrade or their product become finacially unviable?