yardman 49

It just occured to me: If "Remove Existing Links" is indeed broke, then doing a "Restore Devices" will restore my bad links also. So, even if I did not choose "Keep Existing Links", since the "Remove Existing Links" is still keeping the links anyway, then of course the "Restore Devices" will be operating with bad data. Thanks for the reply.

Hello all: Is there an easy way to change a device from a controller to a responder and vice versa? It would seem like I should be able to right click and select an option to change the device's role in a scene. Thanks

Chris & Michel: I think that I can now confirm that "Restore Device" is not deleting all existing links, at least on 2.4.13. I was bringing an InLineLinc into the ISY. As I would have had to do a circuit power off and then hold the set button on power up (and since I'm not part of the Fantastic 4) I decided to just use Houselinc to remove all the links. Bad move! It turned out that there was a broken link lurking in there. No matter what I tried, I could not remove the link from the KPL button. Finally, after a couple of hours of frustration, I was able to remove it via the Insteon manual method from the KPL pad where it was residing (SteveL would have been proud of me!). So, let me summarize: - In 2.4.13, choosing "Remove Existing Links" when adding an Insteon device does not work. - In 2.4.13, choosing "Restore Device" appears to not remove existing links when it adds the ISY links. - In 2.4.13, choosing "Add Devices Found in Links and Remove Existing Links" when adding an Insteon device, also does not work (I previously reported this) as it also seems to bring in existing links. If you could look into this when you guys get back from EHX, this would be a great help to my sanity! ********************************* Part two of this: is there anyway to see "broken links" in scenes? It's too bad there's not a widget available to us that would query the entire link table of the device, beyond any high-water marks, so that we could see what was happening. Thank you.

Chris: Something seems to be wrong, then. I had some corrupted links in an InLineLinc. I could not remove the links, no matter what I did, without factory resetting the InLineLinc. Even the Restore Device did not fix the problem.

Hello Michel: Based on a previous finding, you indicated that the manual "Add Insteon Device" may not be properly overwriting existing links (as per 2.4.13). If this indeed proves to be the case, is it possible to use "Restore Device" to download ISY created links to the device and erase all others (including any broken links?). Thanks

I think that I may be misunderstanding something: I created a group with two KPL buttons (from different KPLs) and an In-LineLinc dimmer. The group (scene) was named "Kitchen Island Group". I clicked on the Group (Scene) name, checked the "Apply changes to all devices" box, then changed the levels to 55%. The level of the InLineLinc changed, and then I thought that the levels for the InlineLinc as set at the KPL buttons had changed, but they had not. When I toggled each KPL button, the InLineLinc still came on at 100%. So I clicked on each of the two KPL buttons in the group individually, and then clicked "Copy Scene Attributes from Kitchen Island group". I had to do this for each KPL button in the scene, but after doing this, the correct level of 55% was set at each KPL button so that when I toggled the buttons, I got the 55% at the InLineLinc. Am I misunderstanding how "Apply changes to all devices" works?? Or is this a bug?? Thanks

Can I assume that if I don't set a condition for a folder, that it then allows the programs in it to run on their own? In such a case, then, the folder then would simply be used as a means of organization, not as a conditional statement. Thanks.

Thanks, Mark. It's incredible how fast you can get answers around here! I was just coming back to amend my post, because I had figured it out, but you had already replied! Thanks

I'm starting to try setting up Timers. 1) How do you create "variable" trigger times around Sunrise or Sunset? What some call the "security" feature, because it varies the on and off times randomly. To achieve the best "randomness", is it best to have separate programs for different groups of lights? Are there any other things that I should know about timed programs? Thanks in advance for any help.

Where did you find the option for Requests Delay? I thought 500ms was the minimum for Insteon (send/receive), but only nerdlincs need to know this. You have confused me now! Rand Hello Rand: Sorry for the confusion. You change the the Requests Delay through the Admin shell. I don't think it appears in the menu, however. The command is upper case "CD" (change delay). I spoke with Michel today, and he also expressed surprise that a delay less than 500 ms works. i don't know why it works, but it does seem to make a big difference for me. I made some additional tweaks last night, so now it is at 350 ms. And the AccessPoint had to be put back on top of the PLM. That seemed to be necessary when a large Togglelinc controlled incandescent can light circuit (with many lights) was turned on. This probably changed the low level noise on the system, making it necessary to move the AP back. I know from experience with high speed digitizers and ion current multipliers that strange harmonics can occur when capacitances change or are mismatched on electronic circuits. Maybe there's some sort of noise that is worse at some times than others, and is is interfering with acknowledgments from the PLM to the ISY. After all, the ISY is running on its own power supply, whereas the PLM is running off of its own 12 volt supply. There could be some ringing on the serial line between them as a result. Possibly changing the delay helps with this. It would be interesting to see if the same problem happens with the 99.9, or if it goes away due to both devices running from the same 12 supply. What was compounding my problems was that I may have stumbled across a problem with how 2.4.13 is handling the "Remove Existing Links" option. After I related my experiences with Michel, he said that the links should have been overwritten, but in my case, it seemed as though my Houselinc links were persisting. If so, then that is a bug. Michel will look into this. So for awhile there, my "downloaded" links weren't working. But it seems like I am making progress. I'm going to add a little at a time to the ISY control, since I have a reasonably large setup, and I don't want to get deep into it and then find that I'm having too many issues. But I am optimistic that eventually it will work as intended. Thanks

Hello Sloop: You have mentioned the console a number of times now. How do you get to it?

Oops! Spoke too soon about Comm Failures....they're back!

Hello Slooplinc: My KPL buttons should be in order. This is how I name them: ex: "Hall KPL A - Porch Light", "Hall KPL B - Garage",etc. That helps me keep track of things, because they stay in alphabetical order. I'm only working with a very small subset of my entire network, as ever since setting up the ISY/PLM I've had Comm Failure problems. I've been in touch with Michel, and he was a big help, giving me suggestions and even sending me a beta PLM "Firm58". But this did not help, either. He's probably getting sick of reading my emails! I've tried a lot; different rooms, the "piggy backed AccessPoint" trick, longer Request delay times,etc. It would seem like I was making progress for a while, but then I'd start having Comm Failures again at times. I think that the failures were contributing to my inability to make scenes, even when adding a device to a scene did not show an explicit failure. But there finally is good news! I was able to finally crosslink, using your suggestion. But first I did a "remove modem", then deleted all devices from the ISY, so that I could start over. This seemed to clear out the ISY/PLM's brainlinc, and the allowed them to start playing happy with my switches' brainlincs. More importantly I think, I was able to find a better "Requests" Delay for my system. Changing that to 300ms seems to have fixed my comm problems, even when using the Firm52 PLM. And I don't need the piggy backed AccessPoint, either. Yippee!!! Hopefully this keeps working. I'll let you know. And thanks for the advice.

Slooplinc: Mine doesn't seem to be responding properly. Let me tell you what's happening: I added the KPL and 2 Togglelincs to the ISY. At first, I tried it with importing links. ISY went into endless loop for about 10 to 15 minutes on the last togglelinc, so I rebooted ISY, and removed all devices that I had added. I then added the KPL and Togglelincs back into the ISY, this time overwriting all links. Well, that didn't seem to really work either, as I still had old links in the devices, which meant they were crosslinked before I even created any ISY scenes. So I again removed all devices, and then factory reset the KPL and TGLs. Then I added them again using "overwrite links". So currently I can control individual devices ok. But then I tried to create a scene for the Lower Hall, with both the TGL and KPL Button C (in eight button mode) as "controllers" as you said. But this didn't work. Turning the Scene on from ISY did nothing. And turning on the TGL did not activate the KPL button. This happens even when the scenes created with no errors. I then changed the KPL Button to a "responder" in the scene. But still no joy. My brainlinc is hurting now. Any additional guidance will be gratefully received.

Hello all: When you put two devices in a scene, what does it mean when the KPL button in in blue normal font, but the Togglelinc that is controlling it is in red italics?? Thanks

Hello all: Sorry for such a basic question. But the User Guide is out of date, and the Wiki was not much help either. I just want to know how to crosslink devices via ISY. So, for instance, if I want to link a Togglelinc to a KPL button as controller/responder, and then vice versa, do I need to create 2 scenes? Or can it all go in one scene? Also, adding devices and creating scenes seems so slooowwwww. Sorry Nooblinc Frank

Rand: Whoa! I understand what you say, and I tried it with the Lamplinc, and it does indeed work. (Actually, a double-press of the unit's button also enables the new, downloaded ramp rate). But why have the slider there at all? At least the level slider has an immediate effect, albeit it also won't become a local value until the unit is power cycled. I didn't think that these commands were for adjusting the local values. Rather, I thought that they were for testing and making temporary changes, such as "what would that ramp rate look like"? Or, for making a change remotely (internet), where you want to change both a level and a ramp rate for a light that you want to change back at home. ******************************************* In order for a newbie to not be confused, maybe a memo should be on the bottom of this "local" screen, that says something to the effect that "for these values to become local values, please power cycle the device". (Sort of like having the shut the car off to get a new setting of your interval wipers to work! "Please change the wiper delay, then turn the ignition off and back on again to accept the change".)

Hello all: I am running 2.4.13, and am trying the change the ramp rate on a LampLinc. I have the level set at 100% in the ISY GUI. I change the rate from a default value of 0.1 to say, 30 seconds. But when I click "On" in the GUI, the unit still comes on very quickly, as though the rate change didn't "take" at all. On the other hand, I can easily change the light level through the ISY GUI, and that works right away. So I'm wondering what is happeing here. What am I doing wrong? ********************************************************** Alright, so I did some additional experiments. I discovered that the same situation exists when trying to control a Togglelinc also. I can "dim" through the GUI, and the change happens immediately, and also it persists when I click the light off and back on. I can move the "ramp" slider, and it also changes. But then when I click the "On" or "off" buttons, the light does not ramp, but goes immediately on or off. So manual dimming through the GUI works, ramping does not seem to. Thanks for any help.

Hello all: I'm trying to do some troubleshooting with the ISY on my network. I would like to know what users are generally seeing for how long it takes the ISY GUI take to report back after a device query, or for that matter, a device level change or ramp change? When I turn a Lamplinc or Appliancelinc On or OFF, the device (Lamplinc or Appliancelinc) activity light will usually only blink once, But for device queries (or ramp/level changes), the device activity light will blink about 6 times, and the "System Busy" status bar will be visible for about 3 to 4 seconds. I'm just wondering if what I'm seeing is "normal". Thanks a lot for any feedback.

MikeB: what version PLM do you have? Thanks

Wow. No return to a higher output signal? Well, I hope that signal handling alone will help. To use one of Sloop's terms, this is a real "bummerlinc". Again, I'm a little mystified, and I'm hoping to hear back from SteveL as to what is the difference (in terms of transmitter/receiver) between the PLM and the PLC. My PLCs work just fine! If they need more room in the PLM case for a heat sink, they should just remove the pass through outlet and use that space. One of the big improvements regarding the Insteon protocol was supposed to be reliability. Most of us that have been using Insteon and X10 are aware that sometimes you need to put filters on noisy devices. But once you do have your whole house working well with Insteon, adding more Insteon devices doesn't usually cause a problem, as they all "add" to the reliability of the signal. So why should they have designed the PLM any differently? Why should the PLM be the weak link? I'd be willing to spend twice as much on the PLM to get one that works well.

Mark wrote: I was thinking about your reply, Mark, and I now want to know why the PLM behaves differently than the PLC? I know of users that have claimed that they have multiple PLCs on their network with no ill effects. Michel told me that the current PLM has way less signal power than other Insteon devices (even the PLC?). Based on previous posts, I thought that the PLM and PLC were pretty close in design, but it now appears to me that this is not really the case, and that the PLM is much more "finicky" than the PLC. Would you agree?? Thanks

Hello Mark: Been there already. I have already factory reset all of the devices, and removed links to all other devices. This seems to only happen infrequently, but when it does, a communication error failure has usually occured prior to closing the GUI. That's why I wonder if the problem is with the way that the ISY application closes after an error occurs. Best regards, Best wishes

I'm trying to get my ISY set up, and am having some PLM problems that we are working through. But I also am starting to see a strange phenomenon with the ISY control. FYI, I'm running 2.4.12. What happens is as follows: if I close the ISY GUI after having several "Cannot Communicate...." errors (due to what we think are PLM issues), sometimes when I go back into the GUI, I find that a dimmer or lamplinc has had the "On" value magically change to "0%", instead of where I left it at "100%". Likewise, when going back into the GUI I sometimes find that the ramp rate has magically changed from 0.1 seconds to 9 minutes. In none of these case had I ever actually changed the values. I was just toggling on or off, or querying the device. After getting failure messages, I would close the ISY GUI, and the browser window. And then when restarting the application, these errors would appear. Maybe only 10% of the time. Has anyone else seen this?? Thanks

Thanks, Mark. I needed some encouragement. I also just spoke to Michel, and he was very helpful. I'll let you all know what happens. Thanks