yardman 49

Hello Mike: Thanks for the kind words! I see that since I've been away, Darrell has joined UDI, and he is picking up Michel's tradition of staying close to the user base. Welcome aboard, Darrell ! Hopefully, this will make things a bit easier for Michel. You know, I wish that I had really documented the problems with my folders. But I found that I was just more frustrated that my "AWAY" scene was not functioning properly. I tried several permutations and then just gave up on the concept of having the programs in a conditional folder. I still have them in a folder, but there are no conditions associated with it. Since you're interested, the purpose of the programs is to turn lights on and off while we're away, to give the impression that we are "moving" around the house from room to room. What is supposed to trigger the programs are two conditions: Hall KPL G button, and the time of day. The idea was that when we leave the house, say, in the afternoon, I could push the button which would allow the programs to run when the proper time was reached. If we were already in one of the evening time periods when the button was pushed, the THEN statements should start running immediately. So here is what I had: AWAY SCENE ON SUB 1 If Status 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is On Then Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This program would turn off the X10 light in my office, which is a visual letting me know that that at least the ISY is acknowleding the button press. AWAY SCENE SUB 2 If Status 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is On And From 7:00:00PM To 10:00:00PM (same day) Then Repeat 1 times Wait 10 minutes (Random) Set Scene 'Kitchen Main Group' On Wait 15 minutes Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' On Wait 10 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' On Wait 7 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' Off Wait 2 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' On Wait 3 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' Off Wait 5 minutes Set Scene 'Basement Game Group' On Wait 5 minutes Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' Off Wait 3 minutes Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/On (3)' Wait 2 seconds Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This program started the first sequence of events. AWAY SCENE SUB 3 If Status 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is On And From 11:00:00PM To 1:00:00AM (next day) Then Wait 10 seconds (Random) Wait 10 minutes (Random) Set Scene 'Basement Game Group' Off Wait 1 minute Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' Off Wait 5 seconds Set Scene 'Kitchen Main Group' Off Wait 2 minutes Set 'Master Bed Dimmer' On Wait 1 hour and 2 minutes Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Repeat 1 times Wait 10 minutes Set 'Master Bed Dimmer' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This program initiated the second sequence of events, and then eventually turned all the involved devices back off AWAY SCENE OFF If Control 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is switched Off Then Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Repeat 1 times Stop program 'Away Scene ON Sub 2' Stop program 'Away Scene ON Sub 3' Set Scene 'Kitchen Main Group' Off Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' Off Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' Off Set Scene 'Basement Game Group' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This last program forced a stop of all the AWAY programs, and turned all involved devices back off when KPL G would be toggled off. When I had the programs in folders, I think that I may have had the folder conditional set to respond the the KPL G button control or status ON. I really don't remember now. But I know that sometimes the programs would start running when they shouldn't have, even if the KPL G button was never pressed. At other times, the programs wouldn't run when the button had been pressed. At any rate, this current setup seems to work. If you can suggest anything better, I'll listen! Thanks and Best wishes,

Another way to look at it: the ISY has links to every device that you add to its network, and also to all groups of devices. But it does cnot directly control links between devices. Yes, you use it to create the links between the devices. And you use it to modify those links when changing levels, rates, etc. But the actual control of those links resides with the devices themselves. It really has more to do with how the Insteon protocol works than anything else. Best wishes,

Hello HP: I am assuming that I understand your question, so please pardon me if I have it wrong. To turn off the "load" switch device in the n-way through the GUI, you either have to: 1) actually click "OFF" in the GUI for that load switch. 2) or cllick "OFF" in the main ISY scene for that "group" (not the non-load switch devices in the group) When you create an n-way with the ISY, it links the devices to each other as Controllers. Thus each device can control the other from their respective physical buttons, not from their respective ISY pages. The ISY does, however, have links to all devices simultaneously (as an Insteon "Group") from the "main" ISY Scene page. So you would find the scene (group) page that all of those device belong to. You would not need to "expand" the group, but only click on it to select it. Then click on the group "off" button. Everything will then turn "off", including the load and non-load devices. Hope that this helps.

It's possible that it is a bug. Not long ago I had problems with some programs that I had running in a folder. They would sometimes work, and sometimes not. I thought that maybe I was just constructing the programs incorrectly. I had two types of conditionals, with the programs using Time conditionals, and then the programs being placed in a folder that utilized a KPL button Control conditional. Functionality was so intermittent that I finally had to remove them from the folder, and build AND conditionals directly into each program. Only then everything finally started working properly and consistently. I figured that if it wasn't just me, that sooner or later someone would stumble across the same problem. So maybe you have indeed done so. Best wishes,

Hello Michel: Great work! I'm looking forward to the 2.7 release. Best wishes,

Michel actually puts "customer first" service into action, not just words. Michel, you have an amazing attitude and company. The company that I work for is also very customer focused. One thing we have learned over the years is that almost every customer "complaint" has some basis in truth, and they all need to be carefully evaluated. Mere "lip service" just doesn't cut it. You really have to exert effort to achieve "customer satisfaction". Michel and the UDI staff really seem to practice this on a daily basis. I pray that they will prosper and grow into a major presence in the HA industry.

I think that you are confusing "Run" with "Enabled". I believe that in the ISY terminology, "Run" means "Executing the Then or Else statements". "Enable" means "constantly evaluate the 'IF' statement to determine when the Run or Else statements need to be Run". Best wishes,

Hello Chris: I changed the "For" time to 6 hours. Now the "Running Then" shows up for the time period specified in the "Then" actions. If I instead set a specific time (or a 15 minute Random time), should I then also see "Running Then" appear in the Program Summary during the time period specified by the "Then" actions? Thanks.

Hello all: I think that I have written this correctly, but I have some questions: Here is a program that turns off my outside floods: If From 10:15:00PM For 1 hour Then Wait 15 minutes (Random) Repeat 3 times Send X10 'E3/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Repeat 1 times Wait 4 hours Repeat 3 times Send X10 'E3/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I originally put in the "From...For" to account for the timer bug that showed up in version 2.4.15 (I think). Prior to that I had just used 10:15 with a 15 minute randomization. More recently, I put in a 4 hour wait, at which point the "E3 Off" would be sent again. This is in case someone turns the floods back on late at night and forgets to turn them off. So I have two questions: 1) Will this program actually work for the 4 hour wait? Or do I have to have the "From...For" statement be long enough to encompass the entire time needed for all of the events? So say increase the "For" time to 5 or 6 hours? 2) If this is correctly written (which it may not be), then why when I look at the Program Summary page at 11:30 pm does the "Activity" column show "Idle", and the "Status" say "False". Since the "Then" statement should still be running, shouldn't the "Activity" column read "Running Then"? Thanks

Hello Chris: Sorry to be a pest on this, but if this is the way that things must be for now, I could use a little more clarification: Repeat 2 times = A) Run the following actions twice? Or does this mean "Run the following actions, then run them twice more, for a total of three runs?? (Depending on the correct answer to this question, the next questions may become irrelevant.) Repeat 1 times = A) Run the following actions once? So then this is exactly the same as not using any "Repeat", except that it breaks the sequence? Unless this really means "Run the following actions once, then run them once more", for a total of two times. In your examples, you have "Set 'Light' Brighten" preceeded by "Repeat 1 Times". But I'm confused as to why this would ever be used in this way, if my first assumption is true; since there's no sequence to break at this point, so why bother? Repeat 0 times = A) Don't run any of the following actions at all?? When would this be used? Or does this mean "Run the following actions once, and then don't repeat them", for a total of one time through the actions? Whew! Sorry if I'm a little dense on this. I just want to be certain that I'm perfectly clear in my understanding. And thanks for your patience! Best wishes,

Hello Chris: I guess that my question then is: Is "Repeat 1 times" any less confusing? When would anyone use "Repeat 1" other than to break the sequence?

Got it! Thanks, Mike. Fortunately, I have not yet had to suffer through any 1.5 or 1.6 KPLs. I can't say that I've looked around much, but is this information (regarding 1.5 and 1.6 linking) already in the Wiki?

Hello all: Sorry about my ingnorance on this, but why not just use the "Add Insteon Device" function from the Admin? All you need is the device address. This is how I have added all of my Insteon devices. The address is right on the front plate of the Insteon switches, so all you have to do is to remove the wall plate. If in doing so, the ISY cannot correctly identify the KPL (due to the aforementioned firmware issue), then why would one think that the "manual" method would work any better?? Best wishes,

If we support nested Repeat in the future, we will more than likely use parentheses, much like the way the Add And (...) and Add Or (...) buttons work. Hello Chris & Michel: Until nested Repeats are implimented, could you consider these alternatives?: 1) When a "Repeat 1 times" is used to "break" a repeat sequence, could you please have the GUI "remove the indent" on successive actions? Currently, using this approach to break the repeat sequence still leaves all the following lines indented (although this is not visible when pasting here to the forum). Having them indented is confusing. 2) Allow a "Repeat End" to be selected from the drop down for "Repeat For X". This basically should only require the change of the Repeat "1" selection, so that the 1 gets substituted with "End". Unless I'm missing something, since Repeat "1" times really doesn't "repeat" at all, would this not just be a GUI change? If this is implemented, then point 1) above should also be implimented as part of this. Thank you and Best Wishes,

Thank you, Chris. I've updated the Wiki to reflect this information.

Hello Rod: Can you post your program here for us to look at? From with the ISY GUI, right click on your program name. Choose "Copy to Clipboard". Then when you create your forum reply, right click and choose "Paste". Best wishes,

If we support nested Repeat in the future, we will more than likely use parentheses, much like the way the Add And (...) and Add Or (...) buttons work. Hello Chris: Thanks for the reply. So am I correct in assuming that the only way to break the repeat sequence for any subsequent commands is to use "Repeat 1 Times" ? So lets say that in my previous example, after I have issued all of my X10 "repeats", I then want to add a 30 minute wait, followed by more Insteon commands and waits. Would the 30 minute wait and successive Insteon commands have to be preceeded by a "Repeat 1 Times" as follows: If this is the correct way to write such a program, I will update the Wiki with this information. Thank you.

Hello all: I want to use "Repeat" in some of my programs where I currently use repeating manual entries. For instance, I will often issue X10 commands two or three times in a row, with 2 second waits in between. I know that I can use "Repeat" for this. But I'm confused as to what gets repeated, and how to continue on with the "Then" statement without continuing to repeat the remainder of the actions. It seems from what I can tell that once you insert "Repeat" into a "Then" statement, the remainder of the commands would be automatically "nested" under that Repeat. It appears there then is no way to end the Repeat argument without issuing another "Repeat", even if that is a "Repeat 1 times". So for example, here is my "Outside Lights On" program: Would I use the following to rewrite this using "Repeat"?: But this seems rather weird. Shoudn't there be a way to add more commands without having to put all the non-repeating ones into a "Repeat 1 times" argument? It would seem better to have allowed the use of parenthetical nesting arguments, such that everything to be repeated has to be contained in a parenthesis directly following the "Repeat" command. Thanks!

Hello Michel: I lost the 3am query early on, after I had done a factory reset of the unit. In fact, I didn't even know it had existed until recently when I saw someone mention it in the forums. I remember thinking, "What 3 am query"! My reasons for not having a 3 am query: 1) In case of a power faiure, the ISY is going to reboot anyway, which will force a query. 2) Until SmartHome can supply us with a PLM that will approach 100% reliability, I find that very rarely I may get a device query failure. Of course, requerying the device will find it. But I dislike seeing error messages and red exclamation points when I log on, so I've never re-established the 3am query! Best wishes,

Great explanation. Mike. This really is a big help on understanding the proper uses for Status and Control. Best wishes,

Hello Michel: That's very possible. There may have been one or more programs trying to execute during the time that the PLM was off. Yes, I could have just performed a network query, and if it ever happens again, I will try that. But the problem is that if I had been gone, and the power had gone out, maybe the same problem would have occured. Since I don't use a "3am status query" for the ISY, then my status readbacks would be wrong. That is the reason that I took the ISY off the UPS and put it onto the same outlet as the PLM. At least that way, it should reboot properly. Should this approach work without issues? Thanks

Hello Michel & Mike: For what it's worth, I found that approach actually caused me a problem. I had my ISY-26 on my UPS, and the PLM plugged directly into the wall. They were both on the same circuit, but the ISY was on the backup. I had to turn that ciruit off to do some work on my home wiring. That meant that the ISY stayed on (due to the UPS), but the PLM went off. The circuit was off for some time (20 minutes?). When the PLM came back on, the communication with the ISY was messed up. If I remember correctly, many of the status readbacks on "My Lighting" were missing. Due to this, some of my programs that depended on devices statuses were not functioning. I had to power cycle the ISY to get it to sync back up with the PLM. It then found the PLM, ran its reboot systemwide query, and everything was good again. Based on that experience, I took the ISY off of the UPS, plugged it directly into the same outlet as the PLM, and the next time I turned that circuit off, the PLM and ISY came up together with no problems. Best wishes,

Hello Scott: As promised, here are some of my programs where I use the "WAIT" command: ___________________________________________________________________ Here's an example of a program that turns on the status light of my Kitchen KPL G button. This same button actually controls the same devices that are reporting back to it in this program. I wrote the program so that if anyone turned any of these basements lights on from the basement, I would see the G button light up in the kitchen. In that way I both know that a basement light is on, and it also gives me the ability to then turn the entire basement off with a single push of the Kitchen KPL G button: And here's the program that turns off the KPL G status light: Now here's one that I wrote to "cleanup" the status lights on my basement KPL secondary buttons. This is because I have scenes that turn some basement lights "on", and others "off", when a scene controller is turned "on". Historically, KPLs have not liked this, and will turn "on" every secondary that is part of that scene: there is no way to specify that you want some secondaries turned off. So I have a program folder called "Cleanup", and I have several programs that I wrote to have the ISY turn the secondary lights off by including the secondaries in separate groups. So here's the example: Finally, here's an example of a program where I have Insteon and X10 controls included. To make certain that I have 100% reliability on the X10 signals, I use "WAIT" to send the command more than once. I think that I could use "REPEAT" in conjunction with WAIT, instead of the way that I'm doing it here: Best wishes,

Hello Scott: Yes, what you are seeing can be precisely because you need the proper "wait" to be inserted. At least, that is one factor that can cause KPL "blinking". I've also seen it cause RTL (RemoteLinc) blinking. I won't have access to my network until this weekend. I'll make a note to myself to post copies of my status update programs with the "waits" included when I get a a chance. Best wishes,

Hello Michel: Thank you for the response and for already having the fix ready for the next drop! Best wishes,