Erratic Motion Sensor Response

[Kram]

Greetings,

 

I have installed a 2842-222 Motion Sensor outside my back door. The back door light is controlled by the load-controlling ON/OFF buttons on a KeypadLinc 6-Button Controller. I have turned switch 5 ON inside the motion sensor and am controlling its configuration using an ISY994i controller. I set up a scene with the motion sensor as Controller and the ON/OFF switch as Responder. The motion sensor has been configured to work at night only, to send all ON and OFF triggers, and to count down for 3 minutes. The ISY944i sends me text messages when Dusk is turned ON and when it is turned OFF.

 

Both last night and tonight, a while after I received the message that the Dusk state was ON, I came home and the back door light did not turn ON. I went into the house and manually turned the light ON, then OFF, and then stepped out the back door. The motion sensor triggered and the light came ON. I then checked the log file from the ISY994i and it indicated that the motion sensor did send an ON signal to the light switch and the light switch turned ON when I got home, but the light switch did not in fact turn ON.

 

I have tested this setup a number of times and I cannot see any reason why it is behaving as it is. Am I doing something wrong? If so what? If not, what should I try to track down the problem?

 

Many thanks,

 

Kram.

[Xathros]

Are you able to consistently operate the light switch from the admin console? My first suspicion is poor communication between the plm and switch.

 

-Xathros

[LeeG]

Kram

 

The Motion Sensor sends a Motion On message to both the back door light switch and the ISY/PLM. The Motion On message is reaching the ISY/PLM as the ISY Log reflects the Motion On and the back door light switch turning On. This last part about the light switch turning On is an assumption on the part of the ISY. The ISY knows the Motion Sensor is a Controller of a Scene that turns on the back porch light. When the ISY sees the Motion On message it assumes the back door light switch also turned On. The ISY did not do anything to turn the back porch light switch On (besides creating the Scene).

 

The next time you walk past the Motion Sensor and the porch light does not turn On (which should be immediate) look at the Motion Sensor Red LED to see if it blinks several times after it blinks once to indicate motion. If the RED LED blinks several times it means the Motion Sensor did not get an ACK back from the porch light switch when it told the switch to turn On. Could be a phase coupling problem. Something that is preventing the Motion Sensor Motion On message from reaching the back porch light switch.

 

Are there any ISY Programs that trigger from the Motion On message. They could be doing something that is interfering with the Motion On message reaching the back porch light switch.

[arw01]

Lee, expanding on this a bit. If I have a motion sensor that has NO device linked directly besides the PLM of the of the ISY, what red led flashes should I expect to see?

 

I have two motion sensors that are not reliable. Both are used to reset an occupied timer for the basement and many a time there has been motion in the last hour and the lights still go out!

[LeeG]

So long as all the linked Responders send an ACK there should be one blink of the Red LED indicating motion (assuming the Red LED has not been turned Off). If not linked to any device other than PLM which is done when Motion Sensor is added to the ISY, one blink is all that should be seen. The Motion Sensor blinks the RED LED several times if an ACK is not received regardless of whether the Red LED has been turned Off for motion sense.

 

The lights going out require an analysis of what triggers the Program, the Wait time in the Program, the Timeout interval defined in the Motion Sensor, whether the Motion Sensor is operating in Sensing Mode, whether it is operating in On Only mode, etc. Because the Wait time and the Timeout values are operating independently in combination with what is triggering the Program, it can be defined such that the lights are allowed to go out even when motion is correctly sensed.

 

Best to post the Program involved and all the Motion Sensor options and Timeout value.

[Kram]

LeeG,

 

Thank you for your response. My problem should not be phase related. I have Access Points on both phases of my supply. I have no ISY programs that reference the motion sensor ON signal. Last night, after I manually switched the back door light ON and OFF, it started to respond to the motion sensor ON and OFF commands and continued to do so for the rest of the night (at least it was working when I went outside this morning). I did not notice the LED flashes last night. I will keep an eye open for them tonight.

 

Thanks again,

 

Kram.

[oberkc]

My problem should not be phase related.

 

Perhaps not, but it may be communication related.

 

I then checked the log file from the ISY994i and it indicated that the motion sensor did send an ON signal to the light switch

 

This tells me that the motion sensor is communicating with the PLM, at least. I am not sure that one can conclude that it is communicating with the switch, however. The motion sensor may have SENT a signal, but this is no guarantee of receipt.

 

and the light switch turned ON when I got home,

 

The log file showing the light turning on may be an assumed status. If communication with the switch is lost, the ISY may ASSUME that is responded properly.

 

Last night, after I manually switched the back door light ON and OFF, it started to respond to the motion sensor ON and OFF commands and continued to do so for the rest of the night

 

I cannot come up with any explantation why manually cycling the switch would cause it to suddenly respond to a motion sensor when it was not doing so before.

 

If I were experiencing these problems, I would break it down into a couple of potential issues: 1) communication between motion sensor and PLM 2) communication between switch and PLM, and 3) communication between motion sensor and switch.

 

Issues one and two should be relatively straight forward to confirm. Trigger motion while watching the ISY event viewer. Do you see the motion event on the viewer? (If so, you can be confident that the motion sensor is within range of an RF access point, and that the access point is repeating the signal.) Cycle the switch which watching the ISY event viewer. Do you see the event?

 

The third issue will be harder to verify. The only way I can think is to cycle the motion sensor and observe whether the switch responds. If not, this tends to suggest communication problems between the two devices. If you have already confirmed that the motion sensor is communicating with the PLM, but not with the switch, then you have a communication problem somewhere withing your electrical system.

[Kram]

Thanks oberkc,

 

I will attempt to check the communications, as you have suggested, this evening.

 

Kram.

[Kram]

Hello oberkc and LeeG,

 

First an apology. oberkc. I do not have the Event messages for my testing this evening. I have used the Event viewer for Scene testing in the past and was used to it keeping the last set of messages for viewing in later logon sessions. I closed the Event Viewer without first saving the messages to a file and therefore lost them. I will try again tomorrow night.

 

What happened tonight is basically the same as the last two nights. After I received the text message that ISY had received the Dusk ON message from the motion sensor, I went out the back door and kept an eye on the sensor. The LED flashed only once, but the back door light did not come on. I went inside and pressed the OFF load-controlling button for the back door light. I then stepped back outside and the back door light came on. I have gone back out the door several times since, and the light has come on each time.

 

I have been having another problem with this same KeypadLinc that I wasn't getting uptight about, but now that you mention that I am probably having communications problems, I figure that this is the problem here as well. It was because of this other problem that I installed the Access Points, but that didn't fix the problem.

 

In my garage I have two lights that are each controlled by a SwitchLinc ON/OFF (Dual-Band) Remote Control Switch. The scene A button on the KeypadLinc is set as a Controller in a scene that has one of the garage switches also defined as a Controller. Scene B button is likewise configured with the other garage light. My intent is to be able to control the lights from either the kitchen (using the KeypadLinc) or from the garage (using the SwitchLinc switches) and have the KeypadLink buttons correctly reflect the lights' statuses. The KeypadLinc buttons control the garage lights as desired, but changes made to the lights by the SwitchLinc switches are not reflected by the LEDs in the KeypadLinc buttons. This behavour has been consistent since I installed the switches in the garage.

 

Here are the Event messages from running Test Scene against one of the garage scenes:

 

Wed 02/20/2013 07:13:42 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 17 13 00 06

Wed 02/20/2013 07:13:42 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.13.33 1F.23.33 E1 13 FF LTOFFRR(FF)

Wed 02/20/2013 07:13:43 PM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06

Wed 02/20/2013 07:13:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.76.EB 1F.23.33 61 13 17 LTOFFRR(17)

Wed 02/20/2013 07:13:43 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 20.76.EB-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- GL Front Scene Test Results -----

[succeeded] GL Front Switch (20 76 EB 1)

[Failed] BD Garage Front Remote (1F 13 33 4)

----- GL Front Scene Test Results -----

Wed 02/20/2013 07:13:50 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 17 CF 13 00

Wed 02/20/2013 07:13:50 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.17 CF 13 00 06

 

It appears that the KeypadLinc has problems in receiving messages but has no problems with sending them.

 

I would appreciate any advice that you might give on where I should look next. As mentioned, I will attempt to get Event messages related to the motion sensor tomorrow night.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Kram.

[LeeG]

This is something more than a simple comm problem with the KeypadLinc. Pressing the OFF button has no affect on the comm between the Motion Sensor and the KeypadLinc. Also since the Motion Sensor did not blink Red multiple times it would appear the KeypadLinc received the message from the Motion Sensor but did not react to it.

 

I would factory reset the KeypadLinc and do a Restore Device to the KeypadLinc to rebuild the link database erased by the factory reset.

[Kram]

Again, I must thank you LeeG for your help!

 

I reset the KeypadLink. It did not behave exactly as indicated in the manual, but it certainly fixed the problem with the garage lights. I'll see how things go with the motion sensor tomorrow evening, but I have a warm feeling that it will respond correctly. I'll let you know how things go.

 

Kram.

[Kram]

Greetings,

 

I was unable to check the back door light before my spouse turned off one of the scenes and went outside. Right now, everything is working, so unless I post another reply, everything is good.

 

Thanks again for your assistance.

 

Kram.