nexus Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Installed an IOLinc today with a magnetic contact on the garage door hooked up to GND and Sense on the IOLinc. This worked great when linked to a KeypadLinc button A and consistently reported the correct status to the ISY. I configured the scene in my ISY (Sensor as controller and Button A as responder). I then decided to hook up my garage door to N/O and COM the way the IOLinc owners manual shows. The other end was connected to the Liftmaster garage door opener on 1 and 2 (The same screws my hardwired opener was connected. This would open my garage door but it would disable my hard wired button for open/close and my wireless remotes. When I clicked the set button on the IOLinc it wouldn't close the garage door until it was tapped twice. So to open or close the garage door with the IOLinc the LED had to be lit up (when it was off, it would do nothing). When the garage door was closed, the hardwired garage door button would work again. So I disconnect the garage door control and now my Sensor is always On. I tried doing a reset on the IOLinc but when I query it from the ISY it shows ON no matter if the door is open or closed. Very frustrated. Any thoughts? Did I nuke the IOLinc by hooking up the garage door?
LeeG Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 The door opener not functioning when the I/O Linc Relay N/O Com is connected is the result of not putting the I/O Linc Relay into one of the Momentary modes. When the I/O Linc Relay was turned On the effect was the same as pushing in and holding the manual button. Click the I/O Linc Relay node, click the Set Options button, set the Momentary hold time to 1-2 seconds and set Momentary A mode to start. Which Momentary mode will ultimately be used depends on other factors. The above should not have affected the operation of the I/O Linc Sensor. Factory resetting the I/O Linc erased the link database such that the I/O Linc can no longer send Sensor state change messages. Right click the I/O Linc Sensor node, select Restore Device to rebuild the I/O Linc link database. Watch the Green LED at the I/O Linc wire connector. It should turn On and Off as the garage door is closed and opened. If the Green LED does not cycle On and Off the wires connecting the magnetic switch were disturbed when working with the Relay connections.
LeeG Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 If problems remain please provide the following along with a description of the problem(s). Thanks Does the Green LED at I/O Linc connections turn On and Off as door is opened and closed? If so is the Green LED On when the door is closed? What is being used to control the I/O Linc Relay? Admin Console turning Relay On/Off directly, using an ISY Scene, KPL button? Does the I/O Linc White LED turn On bright when the Relay turns On and goes dim when the Relay turns Off?
nexus Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks for the tips Lee. I'm still having sensor issues but the relay is now working properly. The light for the sensor is always on unless I disconnect the sensor. I tried replacing the wire to the sensor but that didn't solve the issue, so it sounds like it's the sensor itself. I'm going to put a volt meter on it tomorrow. My keypadlinc won't open/close the garage door. In the ISY it says the button and the relay are on but when I query the IOLinc shows that it's off. If I turn the relay on directly from the ISY the garage works fine. So it sounds like I have some communication issues with the KeypadLinc as well... one more thing to deal with but getting closer.
LeeG Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Controlling the I/O Linc Relay from a KeypadLinc button is using a Scene to control the Relay. Now which Momentary Mode A,B,C the I/O Linc is in controls how the Relay will react to the KPL button press. In Momentary A mode the Relay will react to only one command (turn On), either Scene On or Scene Off but not both. I Momentary B mode the Relay will turn On with both a Scene On and a Scene Off. This is probably the Momentary mode you want to use. In Momentary C mode the Relay reaction is related to whether the Sensor is On or Off in combination with Scene On or Scene Off. All the detail regarding how the I/O Linc Relay reacts in each Momentary mode is covered in the I/O Linc User Guide. With the Green LED On all the time regardless of whether the magnet is near the reed switch, either the magnetic switch is bad, there is a short in the wiring or the wiring is not correct. So long as the Green LED goes out when the wires to the GND and Sensor connections are removed the I/O Linc itself is working. The I/O Linc does not send a message back to the ISY/PLM when Momentary mode turns the Relay Off. That is why the Relay can indicate On in the Admin Console much of the time even though the Relay is physically Off. This is normal.
nexus Posted March 1, 2013 Author Posted March 1, 2013 The sensor issue was the actual sensor. It was the large rail mount contact sensor that Smarthome sells by Aelph. Really surprised because it looked pretty solid. I have everything setup to control the relay, as you have described, with the KPL but still no joy. Hopefully this weekend I'll have more time to troubleshoot.
nexus Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 New sensor is now installed but now I have more issues. The sensor updates the KPL properly but it does something I didn't expect, when you open the garage it reports an ON-OFF-ON. When the garage is closed it reports an OFF-ON-OFF. This isn't a huge deal except if you want to send text notifications when the door is open or closed. Instead of 1 text message you get 3. Additionally, I still can't control the garage door with the KPL button. The ISY has no issues communicating with the IOLinc (sending updates, control, etc.). The IOLinc has no issues sending sensor status and updating the KPL button A. So it looks like everything is communicating fine but I can't trigger the IOLinc relay with the KPL button. Current settings: Momentary A (hold time 1.5sec), Trigger Reverse, LED on TX. I have two scenes: Scene 1: Garage Door Open Close a. Garage Relay b. KPL button A On levels 100% and ramp rates are greyed out. Scene 2: Garage Sensor On Off a. Garage Sensor b. KPL button A I've tried setting button A to Toggle and just On but it will not fire the relay. In the ISY though, it shows Relay On and KPL button A On.
oberkc Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 The sensor updates the KPL properly but it does something I didn't expect, when you open the garage it reports an ON-OFF-ON. The sensor reports ON-OFF-ON, or the KPL? I find it hard to believe that the sensor, itself, reports that status. The behavior sounds as if you have your KPL in a non-toggle mode, where the KPL will flash a couple of times. How do you know that the sensor reports ON-OFF-ON? Do you, sometimes, have to press the KPL more than once in order to activate the door? Current settings: Momentary A (hold time 1.5sec), Trigger Reverse, LED on TX In momentary A mode, it will responde to EITHER (but not both) ON or OFF commands. It sounds as if you have yours configured to respond to OFF. This would explain why the door would not respond to your KPL when configured in non-toggle ON mode. Does this sound plausible? This isn't a huge deal except if you want to send text notifications when the door is open or closed. Instead of 1 text message you get 3. This could depend on your program for sending text notifications. Is this program triggered off sensor status or KPL status, or something else? Have you actually experienced reciept of three text messages? I've tried setting button A to Toggle and just On but it will not fire the relay. This tends to suggest that your "momentary A" setting will respond only to OFF commands. I noted that LeeG suggested momentary B mode, but you chose different. Is there any particular reason you chose momentary A? I have found that the garage door case is a relatively complicated setup, where every setting and installation is related to the other, and attention to details matters. Location of sensor is non-trivial. It matters whether sensor is ON or OFF when door is closed. Momentary mode of the relay is related to mode of the KPL and of the sensor status relationship to door. My recommendation for garage doors matches the wiki: a) locate the sensor such that is is closed when the door is FULLY closed. Check the LED indicator of the IOLinc to be sure. wire the sensor such that it is ON when the door is open (rather, not closed) and off when fully closed. c) configure your relay to respond to ON commands, and: d) configure your KPL to be non-toggle ON e) create a scene with KPL as controller and relay as responder f) create a scene with sensor as controller and KPL as responder. If you follow these steps, pressing your KPL will cause the door to open or close. The KPL will flash a few times, but remain lit if the door is open or turn off if closed. Each of these steps is related to others. If you fail to perform any one step correctly, the door/KPL will not work properly. If you have questions about any of those steps, let us know.
LeeG Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 You need Momentary B mode to have the KPL button press move the garage door assuming the KPL button is in toggle mode. In Momentary B mode the I/O Linc Relay turns On in response to both Scene On and Scene Off commands generated by a KPL button in toggle mode. Momentary A mode reacts to only Scene On or only Scene Off depending on other factors. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 and trace the door opening and closing. I've not used that style rail mounted switch. It sounds like the switch is bouncing when cycled open or closed. Would like to verify that with an event trace before deciding what to do next.
nexus Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 You need Momentary B mode to have the KPL button press move the garage door assuming the KPL button is in toggle mode. In Momentary B mode the I/O Linc Relay turns On in response to both Scene On and Scene Off commands generated by a KPL button in toggle mode. Momentary A mode reacts to only Scene On or only Scene Off depending on other factors. I've tried Momentary B and it still didn't work but I'll switch back and test again. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 and trace the door opening and closing. I've not used that style rail mounted switch. It sounds like the switch is bouncing when cycled open or closed. Would like to verify that with an event trace before deciding what to do next. I'll will run a trace this evening. When I use the standard garage door opener, the KPL A button flashes on-off-on upon opening the door. So I setup two rules, one for when the garage opens to send me a text and one when the door is closed. So when Garage Sensor = On, send text that garage is open and when Garage Sensor = Off, send text that garage is closed. The text messages confirmed by sending a garage door open-closed-open (3 seperate messages). Here is the contact: http://www.firststopsecurity.com/produc ... tch-p-1354
LeeG Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 If the KeypadLinc button will/is configured to send only On commands or only Off commands Momentary A mode can be used with the right Relay Responder On Level setting. The Responder On Level setting determines whether the Relay reacts to On commands only or Off commands only when in Momentary A mode. It is much simpler to use Momentary B mode which allows the Relay to turn On from either a Scene On or Scene Off command. Set Momentary B mode and leave it there. If the Relay does not work as needed the situation can be diagnosed from an environment that should work rather than an environment that works only with one command. The switch is advertised as a wide gap. With the magnetic sliding in from the end of the reed I think any slight variation in distance at the very beginning may allow the reed to bounce (close, open, close). Other magnetic switches I've used the magnet approaches parallel to the long side of the reed. It is very unusual for a reed switch to bounce when the magnet approaches parallel to the reed switch. The event trace will confirm how that switch is reacting.
oberkc Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 the KPL A button flashes on-off-on upon opening the door. If there is still concern that there are some dynamic reason that the sensor is oscillating between ON and OFF, I think I would investigate by watching the LED on the IOLinc for any flashing, and/or check event viewer for signs of a stream of status indications. If not, then is it possible that the KPLA button is still configured in a non-toggle mode? (Non-toggle buttons will flash when pressed.)
nexus Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Ok, I ran a trace this morning and this is what comes up when I open and then close the garage: 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] DON 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [ A D4 78 3] ST 255 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] ST 255 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 11.00.01 CB 06 00 (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] DOF 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [ A D4 78 3] ST 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] ST 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 13.00.01 CB 06 00 (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->13.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] DON 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [ A D4 78 3] ST 255 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] ST 255 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 11.00.01 CB 06 00 (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] DOF 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [ A D4 78 3] ST 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] ST 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 13.00.01 CB 06 00 (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->13.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] DON 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [ A D4 78 3] ST 255 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] ST 255 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 11.00.01 CB 06 00 (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] DOF 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [ A D4 78 3] ST 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [ 20 F9 17 1] ST 0 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 13.00.01 CB 06 00 (00) Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->13.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 I'm not sure how to read this, so any input would be appreciated.
LeeG Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 These entries are from the door opening. They show the Sensor reporting On, then Off, then On. 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) – SENSOR ON Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [std-Group ] 20.F9.17-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) – SENSOR OFF Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) – SENSOR ON These entries are from the door closing. They show the Sensor reporting Off, then On, then Off. Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) – SENSOR OFF Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:56 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) – SENSOR ON Tue 03/05/2013 06:55:57 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.F9.17 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) – SENSOR OFF The reaction of the KeypadLinc button is the result of the I/O Linc Sensor showing a bounce in the magnetic switch as it is going from Off to On and later from On to Off. Very unusual for a magnetic reed switch. As I mentioned before I assume it is the result of the orientation of the magnet to the reed as the door moves, approaching from the end of the reed switch rather than from the long side. Can the magnet be positioned closer to the switch? From the pictures it looks like they would be normally be close anyway. The I/O Linc has no option to debounce the Sensor input. The multiple emails can be handled by putting a Wait of 1-2 seconds before the Notify. The bounce in the Sensor will occur during the Wait, causing the Program to be retriggered before the Wait completes so only when the switch remains On or Off for more than 1-2 seconds will the Notify send the email. If Status ‘Sensor’ is On Then Wait 2 seconds Notify door open Else Wait 2 seconds Notify door closed Another option would be to change to the type of magnetic switch that was used in the I/O Linc garage kit SECO-LARM SM-226L-3 Magnetic Garage Door Contact Switch. This is a wide gap switch with both NO and NC contacts so the Sensor can be wired to be On or Off when the door is closed.
nexus Posted March 6, 2013 Author Posted March 6, 2013 I appreciate all the feedback and help with troubleshooting. It’s very frustrating and I wish setup was easier. I called Sentrol and they claim the switch shouldn’t function the way the IOLinc is reporting. Reluctantly, I’m going to try the Smarthome suggested contact switch. I still can’t control the relay with a KPL button. I’ll run another trace and post the results of the button press. It shows the scene as ON and both Relay and button as On. I’ve tried toggle and non-toggle modes and it never triggers the relay. If I turn the relay on from the ISY it has no problem controlling the garage door. It feels like X10 all over again.
LeeG Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 For the KeypadLinc not controlling the Relay, do a Show Device Links Table for the I/O Linc and for the KeypadLinc. Post the results. For the KeypadLinc to control the I/O Linc Relay with a Scene (KPL button press) the KeypadLinc and the I/O Linc require matching link records. What ISY firmware is being used? There was an issue several images back where the Momentary mode was not being set correctly but that was fixed quite some time ago. When Set Options is used to display the I/O Linc setting, it is necessary to click Query on the Set Options display to get the current device settings. If you have a simple On/Off switch it can be connected to the I/O Linc Sensor GND and confirm the I/O Linc Sensor does not cycle On-Off-On for any switch. This is the only case I have seen reported of using that particular magnetic switch with an I/O Linc. Since I/O Lincs do not cycle with other magnetic switches I assume it is the switch and not the I/O Linc. Using another switch that is on hand would confirm that.
nexus Posted March 7, 2013 Author Posted March 7, 2013 Made some progress... apparently I missed the fine print, several times, that when assigning a button to the relay the IOLinc has to be in Latching mode. Really? So now I can open and close the door with the KPL but I need some clarity on the button toggle settings. I'm currently in Momentary B mode and when I push the KPL button it opens the garage but in order to close the door I need to press the KPL Off and then On again. This tells me it is only triggering on the "On" command. This of course makes the status light on the KPL go out of Sync. I'm sure this is an easy fix but I tried making the button A toggle mode to On and Toggle... but both are doing the same thing.
LeeG Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 What level ISY firmware is being used? Does Help | About show the same level for Firmware and UI?
LeeG Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 The Relay mode should have had no affect on defining a Scene with the KeypadLinc button as a Controller and the Relay as a Responder. The KeypadLinc button should be in Toggle mode. I am concerned the I/O Linc Relay options are not being set as expected. Need to know what Help | About shows for both Firmware and UI. The Relay could still be in Latching mode so the KeypadLinc Off press is turning the Relay Off. The Relay could be in Momentary A mode so that it is reacting to only one command. Once I know the Firmware and UI levels, the next thing would be to run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Bring up the I/O Linc Set Options. Click the Latching Mode, when the Event Trace completes the activity, click the Momentary B. When the trace activity completes post the event trace. This may not be necessary depending on the Firmware and UI levels.
nexus Posted March 8, 2013 Author Posted March 8, 2013 Lee, thanks for your persistence. The final answer was using the Query button. Even though it said Momentary B is was always in Momentary A. Every time I switched to another mode and ran a query… it would still say Momentary A. For some reason IE was not pushing the update to the IOLinc… even if I tried forcing it. A quick switch to Chrome and switching to Momentary B worked fine, now controlling the garage with the KPL works flawlessly. I have Insteon throughout my entire home and this, categorically, was the worst experience I’ve had with their products.
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