How to disable KeypadLinc LEDs from ISY?

[doogledb]

I am fairly new to ISY. I have been searching how to get a specific KPL Led to turn off or on without manually pressing it. Here is my setup:

- Toggle mode on KPL for which the key C turns a lamplinc on/off

- Also have a program that turns the same lamplinc on/off following sunrise/sunset schedule

 

I want my KPL Key C LED to be inSync with the on/off status of the LampLinc. I am able to do this with a garage door sensor connected to an I/O linc.... I am guessing the LampLinc does not have a relay function like the I/O Linc and thus the LED does not report the status of the LampLinc?

 

From reading this thread it appears you cannot individually configure the keys and I guess it is not possible accomplish this with a program?

 

 

Thanks, Doug

[LeeG]

An ISY Scene was used to link the KPL button C and the LampLinc. To have both devices stay in sync control the Scene from the Program rather than an individual device.

[doogledb]

An ISY Scene was used to link the KPL button C and the LampLinc. To have both devices stay in sync control the Scene from the Program rather than an individual device.

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I created an ISY Scene which has button C as the controller and Lamplinc as the responder. Are you saying not to link the KPL directly to the LampLinc using a Scene but setup a program that turns on the device when a key is pressed on the KPL? I can't see how to make Button C led to come on when my sunset program schedule turns on the LampLinc.

 

Thanks and bare with me as I get tied into the logic...

[LeeG]

No problem. Always use an ISY Scene to link devices. NEVER link with a Set button.

 

In Insteon using a Direct command (which is what you are doing when turning On/Off the device) only that device responds. Does not matter that the device is linked to other devices, only that device reacts.

 

To have multiple devices react at the same time use the Scene name that linked the devices.

 

Set 'lamplinc' On - turns the device On

 

Set Scene 'scenename' On - turns all the devices in the Scene On

[doogledb]

From ISY, if I turn my Scene on, it only turns on the lamplinc and not Key C. Should Key C (the controller is this scene) light up when a program turns on the Scene?

 

Thanks

[LeeG]

Yes.

 

Right click the Scene name, select Diagnostics | Scene Test. Post the results.

[doogledb]

Yes.

 

Right click the Scene name, select Diagnostics | Scene Test. Post the results.

 

Thanks for looking at this - attached is the output of this Scene Test

ISY-Events-Log.v4.0.5__Sat 2013.12.07 02.09.49 PM.txt

[LeeG]

Thanks for the scene test data. The KPL rejected (NAKed) the request to control the button. This looks like the KPL or the PLM have been reset since the KPL was added to the ISY. Suggest right click the KPL Primary node and select Restore Device to rebuild the KPL and PLM link database. Then repeat the Scene Test and see if the "Failed" result is corrected.

[doogledb]

Thank you LeeG!!! That got the Key to light up. This KPL locked-up on me the other day and had to toggle the circuit breaker to get it working again... That must have messed up the settings.

[EricK]

I think I am going to make the switch to the isy. Regarding the Kpl LEDs I use events in houselinc to turn off a Kpl button after it is pressed. For example, in the movie room I don't want too many Kpl LEDs on, so if I hit a button for a scene, the scene is triggered, then the event turns off that Kpl button. Is this behavior possible with an isy program.

Thanks.

[LeeG]

EricK

 

Sure.

[shannong]

Turn off LEDS. Simple right? Insteon supports that.

 

ISY has a value to set for LEDs when "on" and "off". Great.... I set "on" to zero (default): it's some brightness (but not off!) . I set it to one: it's some brightness that's dimmer than zero!! Why the heck have a value of zero that's brighter than one?

 

I set it to two hundred (which shouldn't be allowed), nothing changes. It's silently ignored.

 

The "off" value for brightness is also zero. The "Off" button of the KPL is lit up like Xmas when the KPL is off. Wha!?!? Why have a variable that does nothing in the ISY?

 

In HouseLinc, I had an "event" that turned off the LEDs at night by schedule or when I turned on a scene for bedtime since there are two KPLs in my bedroom. All the LEDs went completely off. Nothing. The associated devices/scene was still on. Perfect.

 

I also have several switch dimmers in the bedroom. Less of a nuisance than the KPLs, but if I'm writing a program to turn LEDs off why not include them also. Hmm... No option for "off" LEDs for those nodes. I write a program to set "backlight level" as zero. No affect on those either. Also they were simple to turn off in HouseLinc.

 

This is starting to frustrate me. What was simple, obvious, and easy with HouseLinc for free is either convoluted or not possible with ISY. I'm new to ISY so I'm hoping this is a blundering mistake on my part but this thread seems to prove what I've experienced in practice. The brightness values are not actually functional in ISY.

[Michel Kohanim]

shannong,

 

Are you talking about global brightness level or individual backlight for each button?

 

Global brightness level is not a science and my hats off to HouseLinc engineers. All we have is: 0-7 off level and 0-15 on level per documentation.

 

If you are trying to turn on/off an individual scene button, it has to be part of a scene as a responder.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[shannong]

 

Are you talking about global brightness level or individual backlight for each button?

 

Global brightness level is not a science and my hats off to HouseLinc engineers. All we have is: 0-7 off level and 0-15 on level per documentation.

 

 

My goal is to turn off ALL the LEDs on the KPL without affecting that status of the scenes buttons. I have a program written to set the backlight level of the KPL for On/Off to 0/0. The LEDs would be enabled by a program that runs at sunrise.

 

The program does not turn off the LEDs when I use a Run(Then). With the On backlight brightness set to zero the active scene buttons should not light. With the Off backlight set to zero the local Off button on the KPL should also go dark. They are not.

[EricK]

Shannon,

I am making the move from hl, which I am very familiar with. I have a kpl at my bedside and its backlight turns off at 11pm or if I hit the sleep button.

I have another Kpl that is controlled by my new isy and have adjacent buttons that are both set to non toggle on. However, I do not want these buttons on. The advice I got was to create a scene "kpl leds off" with the kpls buttons as responders. I set their response to on. (On or off should not matter, but in hl I always used on). Then write a program. If Kpl button a is pressed (you can add or b, etc) For then use the drop down and choose insteon, select the LEDs off scene, set it to off. I don't have the isy open in front of me so not sure of the exact terminology.

I was advised to add a wait of a few seconds before the then to allow whatever scene was triggered by the button press to trigger.

Works for me.

Eric

 

Edit: I am completely new to the isy so take the advice with caution.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi EricK, thanks so very much. shannong is looking for global brightness.

 

shannong,

 

I am not entirely certain what is your source of information/assertions. From my experience, what you say has never been the case: there are two levels both of which are interrelated; i.e. on level will impact off level and the reverse. If your source is HL, it would be great to see what HL is sending to the KPLs (docklight). The only exception is 2484SWH8 which has a global brightness regardless of on level and off level (very much like SwitchLincs). Again, if you have the traffic from HL, would love to see it.

 

Have you tested the levels outside of programs? Each device has an LED brightness button on the main page that allows you to test the combinations.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[shannong]

Have you tested the levels outside of programs? Each device has an LED brightness button on the main page that allows you to test the combinations.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I have tried controlling the "LED Brightness" of the individual device. The behavior is ineffective as the same the programs.

 

The default for ISY is 0/0 (On/Off) from my limited exposure. But that doesn't make sense to me. Zero should mean off, no? Of course, by default they are not off. Perhaps I'm not interpreting the values correctly. I'm assuming that On=0 means when the particular device is "On" it's brightness level is zero and thus the lights should be off. And when a device's "Off" brightness is zero it should be off also when the button is not active. Anything greater than zero would be some level of light variable up to the max.

 

The ISY values are non-intuitive though perhaps technically accurate for all I know. Zero, seven, and fifteen. Zero makes sense. Seven and fifteen both represent a range of values that fall within even bit boundaries . But why that? In HL, they were based on percentages starting with 2% up to 100%.

 

I'd be happy to capture traffic from HL if you give me the specifics of what you're looking for. I'm only slightly less new to HL than ISY. I can capture the event logs but let me know if you're looking for something else.

[LeeG]

shannong

 

The 00 Backlight level is not Off. It looks like the equivalent of the default On level. The Off Backlight level uses a different command to shut Off the KPL button LEDs.

[shannong]

shannong

 

The 00 Backlight level is not Off. It looks like the equivalent of the default On level. The Off Backlight level uses a different command to shut Off the KPL button LEDs.

 

Obviously zero isn't off in the ISY because it's the default and by default they're not off. But zero SHOULD be off since it's a range of values where the larger the number the brighter the light.

[LeeG]

That may make perfect sense in a logical world but we work with what SmartLabs engineers produce. The ISY did not chose how the device reacts to 00. It is an interesting discussion but the SmartLabs folks are who you need to have a discussion with.

[apnar]

That may make perfect sense in a logical world but we work with what SmartLabs engineers produce. The ISY did not chose how the device reacts to 00. It is an interesting discussion but the SmartLabs folks are who you need to have a discussion with.

 

Not sure I agree here. One of the main reasons to have an ISY is to abstract some of the details and work. If the native values don't make logical sense the GUI should present values that do make sense and translate them. I haven't used it but from above it sounds like HouseLink does this by allowing percentages to be defined. Setting LED values of KPLs is an area that could use some polish or at a minimum more descriptive text in the GUI.

[LeeG]

I'm going to stand aside from this part of the discussion. The ISY implements what the SmartLabs spec indicates. In this case the discussion of using a 00 value is unique to the ISY. HL does not use that value. There are various combinations the ISY allows and the device supports that HL does not support. The ISY presents it because the SmartLabs specs indicate it is a valid value. The discussion as to what the device does with that value is not something the ISY should change (IMO).

[shannong]

That may make perfect sense in a logical world but we work with what SmartLabs engineers produce. The ISY did not chose how the device reacts to 00. It is an interesting discussion but the SmartLabs folks are who you need to have a discussion with.

 

I disagree. ISY is providing the UI and middleware. ISY should provide an interface that's easy to understand and use. Regardless of the protocol or "supported commands" the UI should abstract that for the end user.

 

That's what HoseLinc did. They provide the UI for the end user to easily select a scale from 0-100% with zero being off and 100% being the brightest or "full on" value. Or you can just pick Off. How that's implemented as commands on the backend is immaterial to the end user. That's what a good UI does.

[LeeG]

"with zero being off"

 

I said I would not do this but THIS IS WRONG. Run the event trace in HL and watch the commands with their associated values. A value of 00 is not used on HL. You grew up with HL and like it. That is fine but, to say the ISY is not doing something right because HL chose not to offer the option and ISY does is out of place.

[shannong]

"with zero being off"

 

I said I would not do this but THIS IS WRONG. Run the event trace in HL and watch the commands with their associated values. A value of 00 is not used on HL. You grew up with HL and like it. That is fine but, to say the ISY is not doing something right because HL chose not to offer the option and ISY does is out of place.

 

Oops. Actually that was wrong. HL has Off and then increments from 2% to 100%. I was thinking of zero in a different spot.

 

I wouldn't say I grew up on HL. I only used for two weeks and still don't know what the hell I'm doing.