ISY 994i not linking 240V Insteon 2477SA1

[icerabbit]

I have an ISY 994i that last fall was set up for some landscape lighting.

 

I just installed a 2477SA1 240v 30A load controller to control a hot water heater, and restrict it to be on during off peak electricity hours. Installed fine. Button controls on/off. Push and hold gets it into linking mode.

 

So, I request the ISY to start linking, and press the the 2477SA1 button for 3 secs, at which point it beeps and flashes the LED.

But, nothing happens in the ISY admin console?

 

Note we have one master panel where the power comes in, which only function is to feeds 4 strategically located sub panels (elongated house and additional floor)

The ISY + Homelink are connected to subpanel A @ ~ 35ft.

The 2477SA1 is connected to subpanel B @ 75 ft.

 

Considering the length of runs and a possible phase issue, I added a 2406H SignalLinc to subpanel A to bridge / boost the signal.

 

Tried again to link new devices, but nothing new happens? Only my landscape controllers show up.

 

Also, shouldn't the SignaLinc show up? Which is on the same panel A as the ISY and insteon modem.

 

When I click around in the admin console after a period of no activity, it says error adding new devices, try again???

 

Appreciate your input & advice.

 

 

PS: Firmware on the ISY is 3.2.6

 

Figured it might be a good idea to backup the ISY and see if there's a firmware update.

 

Well it says error can't write file when I try to back up.

 

I have no idea what is going on. Well, I did have to update Java today, I think it was 7u17 or something. Whatever latest JAVA served up today.

 

PS2:

 

Figured I'd reboot my computer and start fresh.

Logged into the ISY, get to admin console.

Flashes an error adding nodes retry and self closes?

 

?? Help! ??

[LeeG]

The passive coupler is not added to the ISY. It has no Insteon address.

 

The Finish button was not clicked on the Start Linking function. Unplug the PLM for 30 seconds. Plug it back in and let it fully boot up. Then reboot the ISY. It may be necessary to do this twice.

 

Update the ISY to 3.3.10. Then run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Use New INSTEON Device, enter Insteon address of Load Controller, Name of choice, and Device Type at default Auto Discover. Post the event trace. A failure to communicate with the Load Controller will not leave the ISY/PLM in linking mode when using New INSTEON Device.

[icerabbit]

Thank you, Lee

 

Michel got me sorted out with the bug between the ISY + JAVA + Windows that locked me out.

 

He figured I had a communication issue with the 2477SA1 and I said I would look into it further.

 

I have since mapped 80% of the electrical circuits in the house.

I added a phase linc adjacent to the main panel, where all subpanels originate, with an insteon outletlinc.

 

Then I really thought that the dual-band PLM and Load Controller ought to talk over the air, if they saw each other; if powerline wasn't doing it.

 

I found an unused circuit on subpanel A. So, I gave the ISY & PLM its own circuit. Mounted it centrally in the basement, where it can line of sight see three electrical subpanels between 10-15-25 ft away. So, now literally 8 steps separate the PLM (panel A) & the 2477SA1 (panel C). I can take a picture with both in it. But the ISY keeps giving a communication error???

 

Sent a note to UD support, and one tech responded less than 15 min later, and did a live session over phone & internet. I could follow along in the event viewer, that the 2477SA1 sends out ACK (good) but then sends out NACK when you ask it to turn the hot water on.

 

So, I'm waiting for more news/troubleshooting. And, whether maybe the 2477 is bad or if there's some firmware incompatibility? Or?

[icerabbit]

Did an additional test.

 

I plugged in an ApplianceLinc (outdoor little grey box with a pigtail) into one of the circuits off of subpanel C, same panel that the hot water heater is on, and I can turn that little ApplianceLinc on/off, no problem.

 

So it would not be a subpanel to subpanel communication issue, I think.

[LeeG]

UDI tech support is as good as it gets. If they dead-end post an event trace at LEVEL 3 of the request to turn On the Load Controller.

 

Was the ISY updated to 3.3.10 or later?

What is the Load Controller firmware level?

What does a Show ISY Links Table display for the Load Controller?

[icerabbit]

Hi Lee,

 

Yes, latest firmware on the ISY. Updated over the weekend.

 

Firmware of the 2477SA1 (acquired last fall 2012). On a small label on the bottom, it has the model #, 6 digit code and then v 1.11 with below that 4311.

 

ISY links table (right click on device show table) is blank.

[LeeG]

If you get to the point of running an Event Trace at LEVEL 3 of the On request, also right click the Load Controller node and select Diagnostics | Query Insteon Engine. My 2477SA1 is an I2CS device which requires a link record to be functional. The trace of the Query Insteon Engine will show if it is an I2CS device. Also need to click Help | About and see what is displayed for both UI and Firmware. If your Load Controller is an I2CS device the NAK is the result of a missing link record. The event trace of the On request will also confirm that.

[icerabbit]

Hi Lee,

 

Well, the mystery continues. Couldn't sleep. Just tried it. No error ?!

 

So that is fantastic news. But I wonder what happened in the past 12 hrs??

 

I don't know how to identify if it is I2CS or not ... though I assume it is.

 

The two tables were empty before, now show 5 and 2 entries??

 

How did those get in there?? Magic?? Voodoo??

 

See copies of three event viewer logs below. One is the queries, then on/off, and on again.

Plus two link tables.

 

Thank you so much for your help!

And patience. I'm learning this as I go

 

============= Query Device Diagnostics ==========================================

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:08 : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A C7 62 0F 19 00

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:08 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.C7.62 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:08 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.62 1E.45.BE 2B 04 00 (00)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:08 : [std-Direct Ack] 1A.C7.62-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:08 : [ 1A C7 62 1] ST 0

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A C7 62 0F 0D 00

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.C7.62 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.62 1E.45.BE 2B 0D 02 (02)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [std-Direct Ack] 1A.C7.62-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [1A C7 62 0 ] Calibrating engine version

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:27 : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A C7 62 0F 19 00

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:27 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.C7.62 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:27 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.62 1E.45.BE 2B 04 00 (00)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:27 : [std-Direct Ack] 1A.C7.62-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:27 : [ 1A C7 62 1] ST 0

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:34 : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A C7 62 0F 11 FF

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:34 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.C7.62 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:35 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.62 1E.45.BE 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:35 : [std-Direct Ack] 1A.C7.62-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:34:35 : [ 1A C7 62 1] ST 255

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:35:19 : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A C7 62 0F 13 00

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:35:19 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.C7.62 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:35:20 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.62 1E.45.BE 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:35:20 : [std-Direct Ack] 1A.C7.62-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:35:20 : [ 1A C7 62 1] ST 0

 

 

============ Device links table =============

 

 

Device Links Table : HOT H2O MBR - 1A.C7.62.1 / 1A C7 62 1

0

4088

226

1

1983934

16719617

1

4080

162

0

1983934

0

2

4072

226

1

873961

196608

3

4064

162

0

1983934

0

4

4056

0

0

0

0

 

 

====================== ISY Links Table ========================

 

ISY Links Table : HOT H2O MBR - 1A.C7.62.1 / 1A C7 62 1

0

4088

226

1

1983934

16719617

1

4080

0

0

0

0

 

 

============================================================

[icerabbit]

The link now to the 2477SA1 seems stable (knock on wood)

 

Though its name "Hot Water Heater" remains lit up red in the ISY network, on the left hand side of the UI, whereas others are blue. Checked documentation. Can't see a reason for that, other than some example where two things are a controller. It also doesn't have a light bulb icon, but a square thing with color squares in it. Maybe those two things are related?

 

My new oddity now is that I can't see anything under the program tab. Main tab works, Configurations works. Programs is blank?

 

I was going to set a program for the hot water heater to be time of use controlled. I already had three programs. Can't see them now??

 

So, one step forward, one step back, unfortunately, it seems. Sigh.

[LeeG]

The 2477SA1 is an I2CS device. The 02 response to the 0x0D command indicates I2CS.

 

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A C7 62 0F 0D 00

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.C7.62 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.62 1E.45.BE 2B 0D 02 (02)

Wed 04/03/2013 04:33:36 : [std-Direct Ack] 1A.C7.62-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Communication with the 2477SA1 is good at the time the event trace was taken. Hops Left=2 is as good as it gets.

 

The Show Device Links Table contains more link records than the Show ISY Links Table indicates should be there. The link to 0D.55.E9 may be the manual link that was done.

 

Show Device Links Table

 

HOT H2O MBR - 1A.C7.62.1 / 1A C7 62 1

0FF8 : E2 01 1E.45.BE FF 1F 01

0FF0 : A2 00 1E.45.BE 00 00 00

0FE8 : E2 01 0D.55.E9 03 00 00

0FE0 : A2 00 1E.45.BE 00 00 00

0FD8 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00

Device Record Count : 5

 

Show ISY Links Table

 

0FF8 : E2 01 1E.45.BE FF 1F 01

0FF0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00

Device Record Count : 2

 

Perhaps tech support established another remote session and fixed the problem. Any I2CS device must have at least one link record that authorizes the PLM to control the device. With the link table being empty before and the NAK that would go along with an On request from an unauthorized PLM, something has corrected the device between then and now.

 

A Restore Device will correct the device link tables to get rid of the extra link records.

[LeeG]

With the Programs tab blank click Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status and see if it shows Connected.

 

The Load Controller node name being Red indicates it is a device with Controller capability. It should have been Red all along. Being Blue and a light bulb before indicates the ISY was not able to determine what type of device it was and added it as a Responder Only device.

 

With the type of device changing from Blue to Red, a blank link table and NAK, the device has been deleted and added back using the correct level Admin Console and with good communication with the2477SA1.

[icerabbit]

I just restarted my computer, emptied browser cache & java cache.

And, now I can access the program tab again

 

I think understand what you mean that it being listed Red means it can act as its own controller. I just thought Red = Bad.

Maybe the UI legend could/should be expanded to include that information.

 

Knock on wood the hot water is now programmed for Off Peak Time Of Use, and I don't have to worry about the old mechanical clock any more with power interruptions and daylight saving time (which can put it in peak time at triple the electric cost)

 

Maybe Michel or Chris tunneled in remotely and fixed something this morning (they have my url etc)

 

What a learning experience.

 

Thank you so much, Lee!

 

Hopefully my next hardware installs will go smoother. I have another box with modules and another 2477SA1 for the pool pump

[LeeG]

Great news! As a final check click Help | About and verify that the Firmware line and the UI line are at the same level.

[icerabbit]

Yes, they are

[Michel Kohanim]

First of all, I have to thank LeeG again for great detective work.

 

Secondly, we never remote in to any ISY unless the customer is present on the other end.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[icerabbit]

Thank you, Michel and your team for your support & intervention.

 

I'm still not sure what exactly transpired, as far as things hanging up or not seeing each other, but things worked out.

 

I have looked at the videos, wiki, ... and am learning more as I go.