Wall switches

[bmiller]

I have 3 light switches in one area of my basement. I would like to have one switch shutoff all 3 sets of lights when exiting the room. The problem is one switch has no neutral. Can i use a dual band 2477s on one of the switches, and a 2474 dimmer on the switch without the neutral ? It states tat the 2474 is for incandescent lights only, but i assume i can set the switch for 100% on level for the cfl's that are on the circuit. The 3rd switch will be another switchlinc/ non dual band.

Thanks

Brad Miller

[LeeG]

The two wire dimmer cannot be used with CFLs. Believe the Smarthome doc when it says to use the 2-wire dimmer with "Wired-in incandescent lighting". The 2-wire dimmer obtains power through the incandescent load which cannot be done with CFLs.

[bmiller]

Ok, thanks. That's the end of that, unless i can get a neutral to the switch box.

[oberkc]

There may be other options, but depends on:

 

a) are these switches in a common box, or all separate boxes?

are these switches on the same circuit?

 

One option that is near univerally available is to install an inlinelinc at the fixture and insteon switch at the wall. This option requires re-purposing of conductors to provide hot and neutral at the switch location, so the ability to identify and work with wiring helps a bit. Of course, there is the added cost of the additional device, but that is often a better option than rewiring.

[apostolakisl]

If you could be more specific on what wires you do have at each location, it may be possible to do this.

 

It sounds like all 3 locations are not wired up to control the fixture as a 4 way in the conventional sense. Are 2 or them together as a 3 way? What is the the last location controlling at present if not this fixture? Which ones have the neutral? What does the location that does not have a neutral actually have?

[bmiller]

There are 3 separate switches, on 3 separate circuits. 2 control 2 cfl's each and the 3rd controls a fluorescent light over my workbench. There are other outlets on all three of these circuits, but these are the ones of concern. They all come from the same 200 amp panel. 2 of them have neutrals, but the 3rd does not. One of the switches that controls 2 cfl's does not have a neutral. The easiest way may be to run another line to to the octagon box for one of the lights and pick up a neutral that way. I traced wiring, and that may be the least expensive way to do this. I was just hoping there would be a device for cfl's that would not require the neutral at the switch to operate.

[oberkc]

I still believe you can either run additional cables, or opt for a two-device approach...an inlinelinc at the fixture and an insteon switch to replace the existing switch. Pick which option is best for you. If material cost is the primary concern, I suspect the additional wire would be cheaper.

[Brian H]

One added tip.

A regular CFL should not be used on any dimmer even if it uses a neutral power connection.

Damage to the CFL or dimmer is possible.

There are hard to find dimmable CFLs.

[oberkc]

To the good points made by Brian H, I opine that I have never been happy with the performance of any dimmable CFL that I have tried.

[apostolakisl]

There are 3 separate switches, on 3 separate circuits. 2 control 2 cfl's each and the 3rd controls a fluorescent light over my workbench. There are other outlets on all three of these circuits, but these are the ones of concern. They all come from the same 200 amp panel. 2 of them have neutrals, but the 3rd does not. One of the switches that controls 2 cfl's does not have a neutral. The easiest way may be to run another line to to the octagon box for one of the lights and pick up a neutral that way. I traced wiring, and that may be the least expensive way to do this. I was just hoping there would be a device for cfl's that would not require the neutral at the switch to operate.

 

So it sounds like you have 3 switches that each independently control their own set of light fixtures and each is the only switch controlling their respective fixtures.

 

I was hoping that the one without a neutral was part of a 3-way circuit where you could re-purpose one of the conductors.

 

It also sounds like you want to turn the 3 separate switches controlling 3 separate sets of light fixtures into a 4-way situation where you have 3 switches which simultaneously are controlling all of the light fixtures. If indeed this is the case, you may have a simple task of rewiring, if you have attic above the lights. It may be a simple matter of jumping your load wire from one fixture to the fixture whose switch has no neutral (you should also jumper the neutral since they aren't on the same circuit). If both of these fixtures are in a ceiling with attic over the top, then running that wire is going to be a quick and easy job. After picking the load and the loads neutral up from one of the other switches, the 2 wires going to the switch without the neutral can be re-purposed to hot/neutral. You won't need a load wire to the switch anymore since that will be coming from the other fixture.

[bmiller]

I want them all to be controlled separately, but the exit switch to shut off all 3 in the case where more than one switch is on. There has been many cases where someone has left the room, and switched off the lights on the way out, but the others have been left on by mistake. i just wanted the one switch to shut off the others if they are on, and the exit switch is turned off. I can run another 14/2 to an octagon box with a light and pick up a neutral. I was hoping the 2 wire dimmer might work with a cfl if it is set to 100%, but as Lee says, it won't. I'm going to get some more on/off switches and save the dual band switches for another day. My wife just shakes her head. What's wrong with a regular light switch. Nothing, but this is better. And so it goes.

[apostolakisl]

Here is a solution. This is all predicated on whether you can fit an inline linc into the fixture's box.

 

The one that has no neutral at the switch has a "switch loop" of wire going to the wall's switch box. Hot/Neutral and Load (obviously) must all be at the fixture's box.

 

At the fixture:

1) Install an inline linc picking up the hot/neutral/load

2) Splice hot to one of the 2 wires going to the switch

3) Splice neutral to the other wire

 

At the switch

1) Use white or black tape as needed to indicate the hot/neutral status of the two wires as per how you hooked them up at the fixture

2) Install a switch linc using only the hot and neutral, cap the load wire

3) Linc the switchlinc to the in-line linc with the switchlinc as a controller

 

In ISY

1) Create a scene which includes all of the devices in the basement as responders only

2) Write a program that turns that scene off whenever the "exit" switch is control switched off

[bmiller]

Thanks. I'll look into that.