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Difference between remote and local on/off commands


pakratt

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I have several smarthome dimmer and relay type switches in my home and use an ISY-99i as my controller. I've noticed that when a switch is set as a controller to another switch, like in a traditional 3-way switch scenario, remote 'on' or 'off' commands to one switch are not sent to the other switch it controls like they are if you hit the switch button locally. If the switch is a controller to another device why doesn't it turn on the controlled device when it receives an 'on' command from the Isy? This is also the case where I have a relay type smarthome switch controlling a smarthome outlet. This works great from the switch, but remote on/off commands to the switch are not then relayed from the switch to the outlet it controls?

Is this by design or am I just doing something wrong?

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This is the Insteon design. For both devices to react together turn the ISY Scene that cross-linked devices On/Off. Insteon devices receiving Direct commands (sent to that device only) do not become Controllers and affect the linked devices. With this design you have the flexibility of controlling all the devices by using the ISY Scene or controlling an individual device using Direct commands.

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Thanks LeeG. Using a scene has kind of been my work around for this. I would have preferred to see a separate 'device only' Insteon command to accomodate the need for individual device control. My only dislike with the scene approach on the ISY is that scenes don't display the on/off status on the ISY web page so I can't tell if the light or outlet is on or off

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The reason why a switch that is remotely controlled does not then control another switch is simple.

 

Think for a moment what would happen if this were true.

 

If switch a controlled switch b, and switch b controlled switch c and d, and switch c and d controlled switches e, f, g, h, and i, and so on, then turning on one switch would snowball into dang near everything in your house turning on.

 

Without this protocol, then you would not be able to have different switches involved in multiple, but different scenes without the scenes effectively be all merged together into one big scene. That of course would defeat the point of scenes.

 

 

 

And as far as scenes not having a status. This has been discussed in the past. But basically it comes down to the fact that defining when a scene is on is very complex when there are multiple devices that get set to multiple levels.

 

If you need to know what is on or off, you use the status of the devices in the scene. If you want to define the status of a group of devices, use a program to test each device and use the status of that program as an indicator of the status of the "scene". In this way, you get to control what constitutes "on" for a scene.

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I can see how bypassing a devices normal on/off behavior can be useful. I just think it should be a different insteon command. I haven't played with the ISY programming much so this would be a good opportunity to give it a try. Is there a scene variable that I can set to change its status or do I need to make a new indicator?

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Insteon has no concept of Scene Status and at present the ISY has not invented one of its own. There have been discussions over several years about Scene Status with no clear consensus what Scene Status should represent regarding the state of the Scene Responders.

 

Take a look at this topic for the most recent discussion of Scene Status and what UDI is thinking about.

 

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=11201&start=30

 

You can examine the individual Status of the Responders in the Scene and come up with a Status that meets your current needs.

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Is there a scene variable that I can set to change its status or do I need to make a new indicator?

 

The simplest way to have a scene status is to write a program and name it "scene x status". Then write the program as you would like the scene defined.

 

If

status light a is not off

and status light b is not off

 

Then

- - empty

Else

- - emtpy

 

You see the above program just looks for the two lights to night be off. But you could do it with an "or" between them, or you could look for very specific levels for the lights, like 50%. This is why a true scene status would probably not be very valuable, because if there are 3 lights in a scene, and somebody changed one of them from the level the scene sets to something else, technically the scene is no longer "on". Like the light might be at 80% instead of 100%. But you might still want to consider the scene as "on".

 

When the program is true, that means the scene is on, when false, it is off. Other programs can reference the status of the program as true or false. You can also add somethng to the then/else section, like you could turn a kpl button on/off or you could set a variable.

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The MobiLinc app for iOS and Android does something clever--it computes a scene status by looking at the cached status of all the devices in the scene. If your scene contains 2 devices and the current status of both is 90%, then MobiLinc shows a 'scene status' as 90%; if one is on and one is off, it shows a status of 50%.

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