ISY 994i IR pro freezing?

[CopyRon]

Probably right after I got 994i, I would go to add a link to a KPL and the KPL would stop responding, and I could not restore it write updates, and my ISY would appear to freeze.

If I unplugged the power to the ISY it would run through it's series of flashing lights and then I could write updates to the problem KPL.

Now and the would go to Administrative Console and attempt to turn a light on or off and the device would say failed to communicate and show the red exclamation. Usually when this happened, I would simply pull the power to the ISY and query engine and the device would come back, sometimes another device would fail, like I am overloading something.

I would unplug the PLM and the ISY and all would be fine for a couple of weeks and then this may occur again.

Tonight almost all my devices are gone and I can't seem to get much working.

I have devices and motion sensors in the same room and in the same outlet as the PLM and can not get communication.

What in the world did I do?

Like I said, this seems to have happened since I switched from the 99i to the 994i, but it may be just coincidence.

Any thoughts???

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Ron,

 

Three questions:

1. Do you have any INSTEON thermostats? If so, remove the dongle

2. Do you have any baby monitors?

3. In the Admin Console, do you have any green 1011 icons next to any of the devices?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[CopyRon]

No

No and

No

 

Thank you for the quick reply.

I have unplugged ISY and PLM 2413s, and right now I have about half of my 70 or so devices back, but no battery powered devices yet.

[CopyRon]

I got everything working again, took 12 to 14 hours, I had to remove and reinstall a bunch of my devices, but I finally got everything up and working again.

I don't know what went wrong or what caused the problem, but I hope it doesn't happen again.

I have installed the hub from house link, but I don't think that caused the problem because I started dropping devices and having to unplug the ISY before I installed the hub. I'll keep you posted as to what happens.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi and thanks for the update.

 

Of course this had everything to do with the HUB and I wished you had mentioned it before. The main reason is that ISY does not know what happens outside of it and all sorts of unexplained behavior should be expected. If you wish to use the HUB in conjunction with ISY, you must make sure that the set of "common" devices between the two is ZERO.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[CopyRon]

Something still going on.

Like I said this has been happening long before I installed the Hub.

The Hub is completely removed from the system.

If I go to add a responder controller to a device, particularly a KPL, it will start adding it, then tell me it can't find the device I was trying to change.

The KPL will then get the red !.

If I try to restore the device nothing happens, but if I write updates it often comes back, although sometimes it takes several tries.

This happens even if the device is plugged in next to my PLM.

[LeeG]

The Red ! indicates the ISY/PLM cannot communicate with the device. With this happening to devices receiving power from the same circuit as the PLM either the PLM is defective or something on the PLM circuit is absorbing (or noise) the Insteon signal.

 

An Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 while accessing a device powered from the PLM circuit will show how bad communication actually is. The Hops Left=x count should indicate the degree of problem.

[CopyRon]

B.Fa.BC responded fine, although it had 1011 in front of it, with hops left 1.

I wrote updates to it and that's when it gets the red !

 

[CopyRon]

This what happens when I click Off or On in the admin console.

 

[LeeG]

CopyRon

 

Thanks for both traces. There is a major problem with communications. In the first trace three commands were issued. The first two have max hops=3 hops left=0 which is as bad as it gets and still work. The third command got no response from the device. There are three possibilities, the device is bad which I rule out since it is not limited to a single device. The other possibilities are bad PLM or something on the PLM circuit. With the device being powered at the PLM plug point it could be things like UPS, PC power supply, other electronics which are not filtered that are attenuating the Insteon signal, or the PLM transmitter signal is very weak. Try using a long extension cord, plugging the PLM and device into the extension cord, plugging the extension cord into an outlet as far away as possible. If the Hops Left=x count continues at 0 then I would conclude the PLM transmitter is bad. If the hops left=x count improves when power is coming from a distant outlet there is something at the current plug point that is absorbing the Insteon signal. It would be common for things like a UPS, PC power supply, etc that are not filtered to significantly reduce the Insteon signal.

 

The Fast Off command trace was perfect. max hops=3 hops left=2 is as good as it gets. The drastic variation between the single command in the second trace and the multiple commands in the first trace could mean the interference is transient in nature allowing a single command to work well at times and destroying communication at others. Or the PLM transmitter degrades as more messages are sent.

[CopyRon]

Ordered a new PLM.

After 30 some hours of diagnostics, I have had enough!

Although I have the 1011s and red !, all my programs and devices still work perfectly!

[CopyRon]

By the way, the 21.59.33, with hops left = 0, is a motion sensor about 4 ft away from my 2413s PLM.

So, I don't believe power line noise should be the problem.

Thanks for all your help.

[LeeG]

This is what the trace entries of a Motion Sensor a few feet from a 2413S PLM should look like

 

Mon 05/27/2013 05:52:56 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.99.51 00.00.01 CB 11 01 LTONRR (01)

Mon 05/27/2013 05:52:56 PM : [std-Group ] 14.99.51-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 05/27/2013 05:52:56 PM : [ 14 99 51 1] DON 1

Mon 05/27/2013 05:52:56 PM : [ 14 99 51 1] ST 255

Mon 05/27/2013 05:52:56 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.99.51 00.00.01 CB 11 01 LTONRR (01)

Mon 05/27/2013 05:52:56 PM : [std-Group ] 14.99.51-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 05/27/2013 05:52:56 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored.

Mon 05/27/2013 05:53:11 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.99.51 11.01.01 CB 06 01 (01)

Mon 05/27/2013 05:53:11 PM : [std-Group ] 14.99.51-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Your Motion Sensor is not communicating through the 2413 PLM RF

[CopyRon]

So, you're saying the PLM is probably the culprit?

[LeeG]

I am saying the motion sensor is not communicating through the PLM RF. If it was the Hops Left=x count would be better. One possibility is the PLM RF is not working. Another possibility there is interference in the 900 MHz band blocking the PLM and/or motion sensor. Another possibility is something physical is blocking the RF between the motion sensor and PLM. Metal, wood, something that is reducing the RF signal level to the point where the PLM is not reacting to motion sensor traffic. The event trace is good at showing what is happening but says nothing about why. My 900 MHz wireless phone works over 1000' from the house so RF interference could be from outside. Additional analysis can be done if other RF devices are available such as a RemoteLinc Mini (RemoteLinc2). The RL2 position relative to the PLM is easy to change so see if a better Hops Left=x count can be achieved in a different position. This is where Insteon debug tools are lacking, both powerline and RF.

[CopyRon]

Thank you again.

4 ft between PLM and MS, line of sight, nothing between them.

[kaphely]

Hi, please let us know if the new PLM is making things better once you receive it. I am experiencing exactly the same issues (even if I only have one Insteaon device for now). Everything works fine then suddenly, I start having trouble talking to my Insteon switch which is dual band and 4 ft away from the PLM.

 

I noticed that my UPS seems to have an effect on the issues, because when it is disconnected, it seems to be always working. It is not connected to the same outlet, but it is close to the PLM and the ISY so maybe it emits RF that messes up either themPLm or ISY.

 

I also noticed that when I turn my Insteon switch on from the admin console, and that it doesn't work, I just need to send an X10 command right after and suddenly, the Insteon device responds to the command I had previously sent. Really weird.

 

I will continue experiencing by getting the UPS out of the equation, and moving the PLm far away from it. I might also consider plugging the UPS into a filterlinc module to see if it improves everything.

 

So please let me know if you find a solution!

 

Thanks,

[LeeG]

kaphely

 

A UPS and other electronics should be on a FilterLinc. They are common sources of interference with Insteon signals.

[Brian H]

Most UPS units are signal absorbers. The Insteon power line signal is like power line noise to an UPS.

I have my APC BX1000 on the filtered outlet of a FilterLinc and the front pass through has my PLM in it.

[kaphely]

My problems are solved!! In case that can be useful to somebody else, my UPS was not responsible of the communication issues. My PLM and ISY are also fine.

 

It was my Linksys E2000 Router's power supply that was causing the issues. Even my X10 signals were messed up. That also explains why my old CM15A was not behaving properly for X10. Now that I changed the power supply with another one, all problems are gone!

 

So be careful if you have these routers (E2000, E3000, etc.), seems like after a couple of years, their power supplies start dying and make noise on the power line that Insteon doesn't like!

[oberkc]

I think it good practice that when one has a large quantity of electronic gadgets in one place, one should add a filter. It is pretty easy to use a single filterlinc to power the various UPS, surge suppressors, and power supplies normally associated with today's home office environment. The cost of a filterlinc is money well spent for this purpose, in my mind.