Communication issues with TriggerLinc's

[ahwman]

I have a total of 42 Insteon devices in my home, 5 of which are dual band. That said, I have several TriggerLins's which are paired to single band SwitchLinc dimmers which for the most part work well. However, I've noticed that every once in a while - perhaps 1 out of 30 times, the TriggerLinc's (happens with all of them) won't toggle the SwitchLinc light on/off. When this happens, I see in my ISY that the device state for the TriggerLinc never changed. On a side note, I'm having communication issues with other scenes through the house and am in the process of tracking down the source of interference. My question is whether these communication issues could be related to the sporadic issues with my TriggerLinc's? Since the TriggerLinc's are directly paired to the SwitchLinc's do these signals even pass through the PLM or are they directly sent from the TriggerLinc to the SwitchLinc?

 

I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on this issue...

[oberkc]

Since the TriggerLinc's are directly paired to the SwitchLinc's do these signals even pass through the PLM or are they directly sent from the TriggerLinc to the SwitchLinc?

 

If they are "paired" to each other via ISY-994 scene, then I understand that they communicate with the PLM (anything added to the ISY-994 will communicate with the PLM, if I understand correctly). However, I don't believe that this communication is needed in order for the triggerlincs to respond to the switchlinc. I understand that such scenes should work, even if the PLM were removed.

[ahwman]

Since the TriggerLinc's are directly paired to the SwitchLinc's do these signals even pass through the PLM or are they directly sent from the TriggerLinc to the SwitchLinc?

 

If they are "paired" to each other via ISY-994 scene, then I understand that they communicate with the PLM (anything added to the ISY-994 will communicate with the PLM, if I understand correctly). However, I don't believe that this communication is needed in order for the triggerlincs to respond to the switchlinc. I understand that such scenes should work, even if the PLM were removed.

 

I appreciate your thoughts. What confuses me is how would a TriggerLinc directly communicate with a single band device which lacks RF and relies on powerline signals? How would it send the signals? I'm thinking it has to send the signals to the PLM via RF which would then redirect the signal via powerline to the receiving device, in this case the TriggerLinc. Is my thinking flawed?

[oberkc]

What confuses me is how would a TriggerLinc directly communicate with a single band device which lacks RF and relies on powerline signals?

 

I'm thinking it has to send the signals to the PLM via RF which would then redirect the signal via powerline to the receiving device, in this case the TriggerLinc. Is my thinking flawed?

 

Yes, the triggerlinc must communicate via RF to another device that has RF capability, which would retransmit the commands to powerline (and repeat over RF, I assume). No, your thinking is not flawed, but your line of questions leads me to wonder if you are lacking a few basic insteon devices.

 

In my mind, a basic insteon setup would include at least two dual-band devices, such as access points, dual-band modules or switches,r your dual-band PLM, or combination of these. These two devices would need to be on opposite legs of your electrical system (confirmed via methods in the instruction manual) to provide a communication path between them. These two devices would also allow communication with any RF-only insteon devices.

 

If your PLM is the only RF-enabled insteon device you have (besides the triggerlinc), then, yes, the triggerlinc can only communicate with the PLM. However, lack of a second dual-band device could lead to communication problems for those devices on opposite legs of your electrical system.

[ahwman]

What confuses me is how would a TriggerLinc directly communicate with a single band device which lacks RF and relies on powerline signals?

 

I'm thinking it has to send the signals to the PLM via RF which would then redirect the signal via powerline to the receiving device, in this case the TriggerLinc. Is my thinking flawed?

 

Yes, the triggerlinc must communicate via RF to another device that has RF capability, which would retransmit the commands to powerline (and repeat over RF, I assume). No, your thinking is not flawed, but your line of questions leads me to wonder if you are lacking a few basic insteon devices.

 

In my mind, a basic insteon setup would include at least two dual-band devices, such as access points, dual-band modules or switches,r your dual-band PLM, or combination of these. These two devices would need to be on opposite legs of your electrical system (confirmed via methods in the instruction manual) to provide a communication path between them. These two devices would also allow communication with any RF-only insteon devices.

 

If your PLM is the only RF-enabled insteon device you have (besides the triggerlinc), then, yes, the triggerlinc can only communicate with the PLM. However, lack of a second dual-band device could lead to communication problems for those devices on opposite legs of your electrical system.

 

I have a total of 6 dual band devices, i.e. switches and dimmers including my dual band PLM.

[Brian H]

Using the 4 tap communications tests for your Dual Band Devices. Have you verified at least one on each phase is communicating with one on the opposite phase?

 

The 2413S PLM is also Dual Band. You may want to see if the tests show any of your other Dual Band Devices are communicating with it.

[oberkc]

I have a total of 6 dual band devices, i.e. switches and dimmers including my dual band PLM.

 

Good (I should have also remembered this from your original post).

 

Regarding your original question about whether they "pass through" the PLM...I would describe it more as the PLM being aware, rather than passing through. Insteon communication path becomes pretty dispersed and redundant as we add devices, with no single point through which communication must pass. The triggerlinc may be communicating directly with one of your other dual band devices. Of course, for the ISY to know about something, clearly we must communicate with the PLM somewhere along the line.

 

As far as your ISY not seeing the state change of your triggerlinc, you would be wise to respond to Brian H suggestions and questions. Perhaps there is something in your setup which is hindering communication with your PLM, either by RF or powerline. Where is your PLM located (plugged into, or next to, a UPS or lots of computer equipment? Surrounded by lots of metal and plastic gadgets that may limit RF range?)?

[ahwman]

Using the 4 tap communications tests for your Dual Band Devices. Have you verified at least one on each phase is communicating with one on the opposite phase?

 

The 2413S PLM is also Dual Band. You may want to see if the tests show any of your other Dual Band Devices are communicating with it.

 

Would you please elaborate on how to perform this test?

 

Thank you so much.

[oberkc]

The method may vary depending on the device, and version. It is best to consult the user manual for your devices to best understand the steps.

[Brian H]

The sales pages for the devices have the links for the full users manuals if you don't have them.

Also avilable here:

http://www.insteon.com/support.html

[arw01]

A better test here is to put the ISY into level 3 logs mode, and go manually toggle those trigger links until you get a couple of failures of the switch to not respond.

 

Then you can see in the logs if the hops count is down to 0 and it's likely a failure of the network to deliver the triggerlinks signal.

 

There is a small possibility that you don't have phase to phase coupling between the 6 dual band devices. I would guess a signal sucker someplace that needs a filter.

[ahwman]

A better test here is to put the ISY into level 3 logs mode, and go manually toggle those trigger links until you get a couple of failures of the switch to not respond.

 

Then you can see in the logs if the hops count is down to 0 and it's likely a failure of the network to deliver the triggerlinks signal.

 

There is a small possibility that you don't have phase to phase coupling between the 6 dual band devices. I would guess a signal sucker someplace that needs a filter.

 

I will continue to hunt down the offending "signal sucker", however I'm considering replacing ALL of my single band devices for dual band's. If I were to do this, do you think it would solve the intermittent issues with my TriggerLinc's since the communication path would now be RF as well as powerline?

 

Thanks for your help!

[oberkc]

If I were to do this, do you think it would solve the intermittent issues with my TriggerLinc's since the communication path would now be RF as well as powerline?

 

Based only on what I read here and smarthome, I cannot offer any assurance that this will solve your problem.

[arw01]

It seems all dual band may not solve all issues, I see, as I add more and more, duplicate messages that have to be ignored because they come later than a signal from a different path.

 

Some report problems with lights, specifically, CFL's that are near the end of their life. I have one Sylvania that completely TURNS OFF a keypad link when it's screwed in and it takes a bit for the keypad linc to comes back up, several seconds.

 

Another CFL flashes like a blinker every few seconds. I've been moving to LED across the board and just finishing the life of the CFL's in places they won't mess up something else.