PLM Failing?

[dstanley]

Recently I have been noticing a few 'odd happenings' program triggers seem to be failing - such as not turning on or off scenes or devices.

I have had two incidents just last night and this morning -

 

Last night programmed outside lights did not turn off - however status lights in keypadlincs appeared to be off.

I had to use the keypadlinc to 'turn on' the already on lights and then push it again to turn them off.

 

This morning a fan timer program failed to turn off the fan after the programmed 5 minutes. Again the kepadlinc was off but the fan was still running.

 

I have to say that these programs have worked flawless for well over a year - the only difference now is that I have replaced my ISY99i with the ISY994 (4.05) - May 1, 2013

 

When I looked at the logs for these two events - the ISY shows that both of these items were turned off (according to it) but in fact they were still on.

 

Could I please get some suggestions as to what I should try to improve the reliability of my system?

 

Does it sound like my PLM may be dieing? It is just over two years old (MAY 4, 2011) ... I am wondering if it is just not communicating properly with the devices? The led seems real faint on the side of it ....

 

Thank you so much for any help!

 

Dwight

ISY LOG.txt

[LeeG]

With KeypadLinc buttons responding, particularly if they are Secondary buttons, I would first look at things like phase coupling. Be sure the Access Points are plugged into the intended outlets. Run the 4 tap test and verify they are receiving each other and are on opposite phases.

 

Have any new appliances or devices been added to the electrical circuits. Have existing devices, PC, router, modem, UPS been moved or no longer on a FilterLinc.

 

The PLM could be failing but with it working with some devices and not others I would look at other areas first before thinking about replacing PLM.

[dstanley]

Thanks for the help Lee!

 

I will check the Access Points when I get home tonight - but they have been in the same place for just over two years.

 

The only recent addition was a brand new INSTEON Dual Band Keypad Dimmer 6 Button 2334-232 on the weekend.

The ISY could not autodetect this one but when I chose it from the list at discovery it worked fine.

My 'issues' were present before this addition though so I do not believe this to be any problem.

 

Other than that nothing changed much except for the new ISY to replace my old ISY.

 

Also - on the failures - these are NOT consistent failures - almost all of the time the switches and programs work properly. It just seems to be a few rare occurences with multiple scenes/devices/programs.

 

The logs to me suggest that the ISY is doing what it is supposed to do - but some things are not responding properly - that is why I was wondering about the PLM.

[LeeG]

Thanks for the additional detail. It could be PLM but with the additional information I am more inclined to think there is intermittent interference. Not likely an Access Point issue with everything working most of the time. Is there an appliance/device running at the time of the failures? Certain light pattern during the time of the failures. It is not a major human effort to replace a PLM although it takes time for the ISY to update every installed device link database with the new PLM Insteon address. The battery powered RF only devices have to be put into linking mode and updated one at a time.

 

Can get a general sense of the Insteon network by running Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Using the Admin Console turn On/Off various devices and look at the Hops Left=x count in the event trace. Hops Left=2 is best, Hops Left=0 is worst, Hops Left=x counts that jump around when controlling the same device indicates a problem.

[dstanley]

I will try this log test at various time throughout the day ... doing the test remotely while no one is home reveals that most of the log says Hops Left=2 with a few devices that say Hops Left=1.

Once of these devices that gives the Hops Left=1 is my outside Waterfall that is an Appliancelinc on a GFI Outlet and a temporary extension cord so I expect a bit of trouble there.

When my two anomalies occurred recently there was basically nothing else running in the house so I am not too sure where any interference could come from?

I do have a new small Samsung Refrigerator that I got early January - could that cause an issue?

I have the PLM plugged into FilterLinc but I could move the FilterLinc to the fridge if it is a suspect ...

[LeeG]

I take the comment about plugging the PLM into a FilterLinc is that it was done to force RF only communication to/from the PLM itself. Was that done to solve powerline problems? Is there a 900 MHz cordless phone in use? Mine has very long range so could be a neighbors.

 

Hops Left=2 is great. Not unusual to have a Hops Left=1 which is fine if that number remains steady.

 

Could be something like the refrigerator since it cycles infrequently.

.

[dstanley]

I was under the impression that if the PLM was plugged into a FilterLinc then that could eliminate any issues with a nearby UPS unit!?

If the end result is that the PLM will ONLY communicate by RF then I will certainly remove it - that was NOT what I thought it would do - I thought it would 'clean-up' any powerline noise that may be caused by a UPS - and I have several UPS units in my home for my audio equipment, computer and server.

[Xathros]

dstanley-

 

Normally, the filterlinc is used to prevent noise or attenuation caused by a device like a UPS from reaching the powerline. Filtering the PLM eliminates the PLM's ability to communicate on the powerline. If the UPS is used for the ISY and other network gear, plug the UPS into the filtered outlet on the filterlinc and the PLM into the Passthru outlet on the filterlinc. This will isolate the USP from the line and allow the PLM direct access to the line.

 

A few users here have purposely filtered the PLM to force it to communicate over RF instead of the powerline. While this may help in some situations, I believe that this will make things worse on many older Insteon networks where there are few if any dual band devices. This would also require a 2413S dual band PLM to work in this configuration.

 

 

-Xathros

[dstanley]

Right - that is what I have now - the PLM is plugged on top of the Filterlinc in the ALWAYS ON plug and the UPS is plugged into the bottom of it ...

[Brian H]

The front outlet on the FilterLinc is not filtered. So it should not block the PLM's power line signals.

That is exactly how my setup is. UPS in bottom filtered outlet and the PLM in the unfiltered pass through outlet on the front.

[Xathros]

Right - that is what I have now - the PLM is plugged on top of the Filterlinc in the ALWAYS ON plug and the UPS is plugged into the bottom of it ...

 

Perfect. The filterlinc should be helping in this case.

 

-Xathros

[dstanley]

I am still having issues where things are not happening reliably so I have ordered a new PLM (mine is two years old).

Can the forum please direct me to the best way to replace my current PLM?

I am not sure if I should do a 'delete PLM' and before I do a 'restore PLM'?

 

Would this be the process?

1. 'Delete PLM'

2. Shut down ISY994i (unplug)

3. Install new PLM

4. Start up ISY994i (plug in)

5. Set 'linking mode' on Motion Sensor, RemoteLincs, MiniRemote, Wireless Open/Close Sensor

5. 'Restore PLM'

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

Dwight

[Xathros]

I am still having issues where things are not happening reliably so I have ordered a new PLM (mine is two years old).

Can the forum please direct me to the best way to replace my current PLM?

I am not sure if I should do a 'delete PLM' and before I do a 'restore PLM'?

 

Would this be the process?

1. 'Delete PLM'

2. Shut down ISY994i (unplug)

3. Install new PLM

4. Start up ISY994i (plug in)

5. Set 'linking mode' on Motion Sensor, RemoteLincs, MiniRemote, Wireless Open/Close Sensor

5. 'Restore PLM'

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

Dwight

 

NO! DO NOT DELETE THE PLM!!!!

 

You will lose all of your links if you delete the PLM.

 

Remove power from the ISY, unplug the old PLM, disconnect it from the ISY.

 

Connect the New PLM to the ISY and plug the new PLM into power. Restore power to the ISY.

 

Log into the ISY and issue a restore PLM.

 

After the restore is complete, You will need to go around to each of your wireless devices, one at a time, place it in linking mode then write updates to the device from the console.

 

That should do it.

 

-Xathros

[dstanley]

Thank you ... I will post back when I get the new PLM and have it running!

 

Dwight

[dstanley]

I have recieved a new PowerLinc Modem (#2413S) Dual Band and I have it installed in my system. Time will tell if I have corrected by intermittent issues.

However, I have another problem now - I can't seem to link to one of my units that previously worked!?

I deleted the device and I am trying to re-discover it but it won't work. Tried AutoDiscover and model name forced - no luck.

Enclosed is the log from the addition attempt - it is an Icon 2876SB (17.CE.EB) - it was in my old sysem and it worked then - hmmmm - any suggestions?

is it possible that I am not bridging my power legs? I have tried the four-click set from my two access points and the new PLM and they all glow bright green when I do that ...

 

Thanks for all the help,

 

Dwight

Icon SwitchLinc Add Failure.txt

[LeeG]

There is no response from Insteon address 17.CE.EB . Check the address for things like 8 instead of B. Could be a defective device, could be a total inability of the PLM to communicate with the ICON location.

 

My Access Points blink Green when receiving the RF test signal and on the opposite phase.

[dstanley]

Hmmm .... moved access point closer to the PLM and it linked the problem device on the first try.

I will leave the access point there and see what happens to the rest of the system.

Will have to read some more to try to understand the role of these access points - I know they bridge the two phases but there has to be more to it than that.

I don't quite get something ...

I have two Access points and the new PLM is dual-band - nay suggestions for me to make sure I have them setup the best they can be?

 

Dwight

 

Edit: the device is added but the communication is flakey - ISY will say the device is on when it isn't. Have to click it a few times in the Admin Console to get it to respond. More testing needed I guess ...

[LeeG]

Besides sending/receiving RF messages between themselves to couple the phases they may be receiving RF from the PLM. This could result in an Insteon message reaching a location over RF that powerline communication would not support.

 

I would move both Access Points to the PLM plug point. Tap the PLM Set button 4 times and note the reaction of each Access Point LED. Then return them to their original location. If both are in RF range of the test signal one will have an LED that reacts differently because it is on the opposite phase (assuming the Access Points are on opposite phases).