New Insteon Ballast Dimmer

[Teken]

Just saw this new addition to the Insteon family. Looks interesting for those who require such a device.

 

http://www.smarthome.com/2475DA2/INSTEO ... mer/p.aspx

 

Teken . . .

[arw01]

Have not seen dimmable floerescent ballasts at the BORG, in the Kitchen with a big Floeurescent light, it might be interesting if I replaced the ballasts.

 

I have heard there was a 12V LED light dimmer coming, maybe that will come along soon.

 

Alan

[Brian H]

Thanks for the link.

The module was in the FCC Database months ago as was the Developers Notes in the Developers files area.

.

[MWareman]

I have heard there was a 12V LED light dimmer coming, maybe that will come along soon.

 

Alan

 

Source? I'll be needing a few of these once available. Currently, figuring out how to do this via some very convoluted ways... If true, I can't wait!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Guys,

 

Working on it.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Brian H]

Michel; From what I have seen. It going to be a unique module.

Two independent relay switched AC Line outputs and a 0-10 volt DC control voltage. For a ballast with a voltage controlled dimmed level.

[arw01]

I have heard there was a 12V LED light dimmer coming, maybe that will come along soon.

 

Alan

 

Source? I'll be needing a few of these once available. Currently, figuring out how to do this via some very convoluted ways... If true, I can't wait!

 

I am afraid I no longer recall, but I believe it was a reliable post on the smarthome forums.

 

Alan

[Brian H]

Just received an email from Smarthome announcing the module.

Also there is an announcement on the Insteon web site.

http://www.insteon.com/2475DA2-ballast-dimmer.html

[peterd]

Michel -

 

How do you envision the support looking? (How does the device behave in non-ISY usage?)

 

I'd expect that if used in dimming mode it would look like any other dimmer.

 

What about when used as relays? Would be great if it just behaved like a dimmer with very granular steps (i.e. 0% = off; 1% - 33% = low; 34% - 66% = medium; 67% - 100% = high).

 

I was about to program something similar with a pair of plain inline Insteon relays, but this could be much slicker.

 

Thanks,

Peter

[Brian H]

From what I read in the Preliminary Users Manual. Filed on the FCC web site.

The dimming control voltage is independent of the two separate relay outputs and it shows it being used to control two separate standard loads that do not use 0-10 volt dimming control.

 

Sales page seems to have pushed the expected stock date out to 08/20/2013

[Teken]

I believe the road for Insteon is to pursue the path where one device can be used as both a relay / dimmer as it is with this device. It would allow unlimited possibility and work in any consumer install. It would also allow them to reduce their inventory of two separate items to stock.

 

There are great things coming out from Insteon / Smarthome. Now, they need to focus on quality control and be consistent on documentation and feature sets to the 3rd party vendors.

 

I look forward to seeing someone use this device and reporting back how it works for them.

 

Teken . . .

[Brian H]

That modules is made mostly for commercial installs. Where you have fluorescent lights with a dimmer type ballast. That is controlled by a 0-10 volt control voltage.

I have not seen any 0-10 volt controlled dimmers in home settings yet.

 

I can see the two relay controlled AC outputs used in many situations.

[peterd]

Brian -

 

I gathered that either the dimmer or relays are expected to be used (in order to provide 2 options for either single (dimmable) ballast or dual (low/med/high) ballast fixtures). But that doesn't answer how the unit gets paired from an Insteon perspective.

 

Could be that they expose 3 units (1 dimmer & 2 relays). That would be simplest for Smarthome, but requires the installer to link different scenes when it's used for low/med/high (each level would require its own scene), and typically use 4 buttons on a keypad (like the fan speed controller). (Hint to Smarthome: time for a 4 button keypad configuration...)

 

While one could program the ISY to run through 3 scenes (plus off) depending on the level of a dimmer, this would require the ISY to be involved for basic operation (and I personally prefer to use links w/in the devices for simple on/off/dim operations).

 

Peter

[Brian H]

We may have to wait for more information. Like an official Users manual as the preliminary one in the FCC database maybe incorrect or missing things.

 

I still have seen no information other than a mention on the sales page. For the small RJ-10 connector for hardwired controls.

[Teken]

We may have to wait for more information. Like an official Users manual as the preliminary one in the FCC database maybe incorrect or missing things.

 

I still have seen no information other than a mention on the sales page. For the small RJ-10 connector for hardwired controls.

 

It's interesting that they note it was for hardwired motion sensors etc.

 

Teken . . .

[arw01]

 

It's interesting that they note it was for hardwired motion sensors etc.

 

Teken . . .

 

I read that too and I, unlike you, did not READ that and let it sink it. That could come in very, very handy. Might have to call the local commercial distributor for lighting. They tended to have better pricing than the local BORGS. I think my kitchen light has two ballasts and with that relay could go way down in light.

 

I like the idea of a hardwired 120v motion sensor talking to my light/insteon. I know we can do it with a micromodule with one of those light switch mount types.

[peterd]

We may have to wait for more information.

Agreed. But, I'm hoping Michel has had access to engineering samples and that (now that it's announced & available to (pre-)order) his NDA will allow him to comment...

[peterd]

It's interesting that they note it was for hardwired motion sensors etc.

I believe every new Smarthome Insteon product will have a sense wire. I think this strategy serves 2 purposes for Smarthome:

• 
  [*:s303ar8u]It lets them get away from having to design, produce, stock and sell multiple switch styles (e.g. Decora paddles and toggles).And we've already seen how this part of it gets them things like motion controlled floodlights (now imagine occupancy/vacancy sensors, timers (haven't they discontinued their keypad-style timer), etc.) for "free."
  [*:s303ar8u]More importantly, it lets them sell worldwide where the form factors of switch boxes, styles of switches, etc. vary widely.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi peterd,

 

We have had the engineering samples and repeatedly requested for updated documentation which never arrived. Furthermore, the units we had didn't work as expected. Now, we are waiting for another shipment.

 

The main issue with the Ballast (and new INSTEON devices) is that it seems SmartHome is moving towards a paradigm of On and Off being different groups (just like dry/wet nodes for leak sensor, etc.). I suppose the reason is that the current INSTEON protocol does not support the notion of ramp-rate for Off (or responder specific settings for a scene). So, what we are left with is that we will need 4 nodes for the Ballast: R1-On, R1-Off, R2-On, R2-Off and then within ISY we will have to do our acrobatics to figure out the correct status. And, on top of that, for dimmer mode, we might need a different node. The concept of using Groups for Functions is not very intuitive to say the least.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Brian H]

Well Michel,

The only Developers Notes for the module, we got in the Developers Group is dated 07/03/2012. So you are not alone.

 

I have seen nothing on the elusive RJ-10 Hard Wired connections on the module. Other than what is briefly mentioned on the sales page.

[Teken]

Well Michel,

The only Developers Notes for the module, we got in the Developers Group is dated 07/03/2012. So you are not alone.

 

I have seen nothing on the elusive RJ-10 Hard Wired connections on the module. Other than what is briefly mentioned on the sales page.

 

After all these years one would think smarthome would have learned their lesson(s) and started to communicate effectively to all their supporters and third party vendors!

 

It simply defies logic that a company that is completely alone in the HA community would not go out of their way to ensure all 3rd party developers and makers were in the loop and given timely feed back and support!

 

Insteon in my mind continues to lead on product looks, new devices brought to market, and ease of use and set up. What they don't have is mass adoption from the likes of Cooper, Leviton, etc etc in support of their protocol.

 

Only a fool, would linger and make the only people who do support their platform, and not communicate to them . . . I really do enjoy my Insteon network but there are times I have to take pause and really wonder if I have all my eggs in one basket.

 

If smarthome goes down the tubes, insteon is gone. With out a 3rd party vendor making comparable Insteon products the consumer is literally screwed!

 

Personally, I have began hedging my bets and purchasing back up items and keeping them in a box for that fateful day.

 

At the end I see smarthome doing the exact same things I see Microsoft doing. Management has no vision, goal, and direction. They do not communicate effectively from the top down, and each department is segregated into devisions that each have no freaking clue what the other is doing.

 

This is a Management problem . . . The only reason both companies are still afloat is that they sell so much crap that it takes time for the other groups to show a chink in its armor.

 

Teken . . .

[arw01]

Someone should call the owner and express these concerns. They may be totally in the dark that the issue even exists. Often the "emperor has no clothes". I don't think it should be UDI, one of us more passionate users.

 

Alan

[TJF1960]

It simply defies logic that a company that is completely alone in the HA community would not go out of their way to ensure all 3rd party developers and makers were in the loop and given timely feed back and support!

 

It makes me wonder sometimes if SH could just be "using" their 3rd party vendors until such a time as they are no longer needed.

[Teken]

Someone should call the owner and express these concerns. They may be totally in the dark that the issue even exists. Often the "emperor has no clothes". I don't think it should be UDI, one of us more passionate users.

 

Alan

 

Alan,

 

I have personally given this exact same feed back in the SH forum, surveys, and also via on line e-mail. What they decide to do with that feed back is up to them. To be fair SH / Insteon has implemented quite a few idea's from the feed back thread. So, its clear someone is reading them and seeing if they can develop and release such products. One would think that communication(s) would be something easier to do, than to create a new device??

 

Who knows . . .

 

Teken . . .

[Teken]

It simply defies logic that a company that is completely alone in the HA community would not go out of their way to ensure all 3rd party developers and makers were in the loop and given timely feed back and support!

 

It makes me wonder sometimes if SH could just be "using" their 3rd party vendors until such a time as they are no longer needed.

 

The one thing that really got me wondering is why they (Smarthome / Insteon) did not produce a world wide PLM? If you're a good business man you will provide the masses what they want. The HUB was, is, and currently is a fail.

 

In time this product will become very robust and will be able to do a lot of things the common HA enthusiasts wants. But, while this is happening why on Gods green Earth would you not produce a world wide PLM to work with the ISY???

 

The proven reliability, power, features, and support are well documented here. Having the ISY be able to control and automate European Insteon devices would foster growth and increase adoption rates, that is a fact.

 

Having people use the only world wide HUB to complete this task only makes the Insteon line look half assed, and poorly designed. Joe Dadda seriously needs to give his head a shake and step up to the plate and introduce a world wide PLM for the masses. The is no down side at all, only growth, adoption, and happy customers.

 

Happy customers will spread the word, and that will increase sales, increased sales makes a company stronger and helps grow the business.

 

Teken . . .