Wireless thermometer to report temperature to ISY99??

[max90034]

I have been looking for a long time for device that would be :

 

1) wireless and battery powered (so I could put it inside a fridge or wine cellar)

2) report temperature to ISY99 (994) (so I can set up alerts, etc)

 

It seems as a pretty simple solutions (there are zillions of all kind of wireless thermometers) but I could not find one that works with ISY99. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[LeeG]

It will not work inside a refrigerator as the RF cannot go through metal shell of the refrigerator. Also temp inside is likely outside the device operating range.

 

There are posts that document how to connect an external temp sensor in place of the internal sensor.

[madcodger]

Not so fast, Lee... I have an Oregon Scientific thermometer reporting to Homeseer via Rfxcom about 15 ft away (and a wall oven and microwave are between the frig and the antenna). Works great! And I'm thinking of trying another one in another frig about 25 ft away, on another floor.

 

Now if only we could read these on an ISY or Elk!

 

Joe

[LeeG]

The RF transmitter and antenna are inside the refrig?

 

I took the question to be centered around Insteon placing a wireless thermostat inside the refig.

 

There are no Insteon based remote temp sensing solutions I am aware of other than a wireless thermostat that would work with the ISY.

 

There are boards that accept various sensors that can send REST commands over IP to the ISY but that seems more complex than what the OP was asking for.

[madcodger]

I believe the OP is asking for exactly what I've been hoping for - a wireless thermometer (and for me, hygrometer) that can communicate with the ISY. Think "temperature part of Weatherbug" for inside the home, and forget Insteon for this. Would likely require external receiver, probably connected via USB or similar. Would allow for monitoring of freezers, frigs, etc as well as other temp / humidity items that ISY could then react to. Most who used Homeseer or similar have had this for years, and it would be a big plus for ISY.

 

And to answer your question, the wireless thermometer does have transmitter, antenna, etc., all built in to a unit smaller than a deck of cards.

[LeeG]

madcodger

 

Thanks for the information on the wireless temp sensor. I am amazed that the unit can be placed inside a refrig and have the RF signal transmit through the metal shell of the refrig.

 

If the deck of cards box is placed inside the freezer how long does the battery last in below freezing temps.

 

Have you got a product number for the device. I would like to look at the product details.

[TJF1960]

Another possible solution for the op would be the wireless tag sensor. I just picked one up to play with.

http://www.wirelesstag.net/

 

They just increased the range of the sensors which detect motion and temp. They claim you can throw the sensor in the door of the fridge or freezer.

 

I have the tag manager sending status updates to variables in the ISY, surprisingly fast response.

[arw01]

Now the question has been does the tag manager do that on the local internet connection or only through the cloud, and what happens if the cloud goes away, or you prevent it from talking to the cloud ever?

 

When I asked them on the phone they said it would que about 100 or so temp readings if it could not talk to the cloud, and then he thought it would start the drop them off. His solution for the cloud "issue" is a $2500 server they can set up that talks only to your tag manager.

 

Tempted to play with them anyways, but I am not convinced this company aka "cloud server" will be around in 18 months!

 

Alan

[TJF1960]

He told me it (local ip address/es) are stored in the cloud, so it wouldn't work if the cloud or internet were down. I was going to test to make sure but just haven't had the time yet. But I will tell you that if it does originate from the cloud, its pretty darn quick. The time from when motion or water detection occurs to when the ISY variable is switch is maybe 1 second, no more and maybe less. I was really surprised at the quickness of response.

I will check when I get a minute and post back.

[max90034]

Thanks for all comments. For now, I just bought few insteon wireless thermostats and use them in the off mode as thermometers linked to isy994. It seems to report the T and humidity fine. My main concern is wine cellar and walls are not metal so this is not a problem. The main downside is that thing is huge, larger than my venstar thermostats... Anyway, it works.

[madcodger]

madcodger

 

Thanks for the information on the wireless temp sensor. I am amazed that the unit can be placed inside a refrig and have the RF signal transmit through the metal shell of the refrig.

 

If the deck of cards box is placed inside the freezer how long does the battery last in below freezing temps.

 

Have you got a product number for the device. I would like to look at the product details.

 

Hi, Lee. Sorry for delayed reply - I missed your post (using Tap A Talk).

 

The unit I use is just a plain old Oregon Scientific temp sensor. Don't know if this specific unit is still made but it's a THR138 and I feel confident they and others still make a similar model. it has a little LCD display on the front as well. Was probably $30 or so, and I probably bought it on eBay or at Lowes, who used to sell them before switching to a different (seems cheaper) supplier.

 

It sits on the top shelf of an LG refrigerator behind the milk and other liquids, and talks to a USB RFXCom unit that's plugged into a PC 15 - 20 feet away. I seem to recall greater distances from a Subzero in my previous house, but can't swear to that.

 

Joe

[MaddBomber83]

Well, how much do you want to spend?

 

I am using a 1 wire bus to send about 20 temperatures to my isy over a wifi connection.

 

IO Guy has a sub forum here for the Automation Shack.

 

You would have two options.

 

The preffered is a wired, wireless setup (what I have).

- Place a 1 wire probe into the area you want to monitor (they make them for a few bucks).

- Connect this probe to your 1 wire bus.

- This is connected to a Raspberry PI.

- The Raspberry PI is on your WiFi Network.

- The Raspberry PI would need a plug or usb port for power.

 

Using the OWLink Software from IO Guy, you can read all these temperatures into ISY as Variables or States. From there do what you like.

 

 

 

True Wireless is a bit harder as you have to power a WiFi connection. This is not as easy on a battery that you are not charging every day. But this can still be done, possibly with the full temperature probe being wireless as well.

 

Check out this Blogfrom a guy who hooked up the 1 wire sensor into a tin box with a battery, radio transmitter and some micro controllers.

 

In the end, all this data is sent to a Raspberry PI like device at a remote location.

 

 

 

In my 1 wire bus setup, I am using the temperatures to control cooling setpoints and fans. I'm in the process of changing out my HVAC and when complete they will also control HVAC Zones.

 

All of this computing is up in my attic, and connected by WiFi to my home network / Isy.

[MaddBomber83]

A bit more details, I will use my AC unit as an example.

 

I drilled a small hole (1/4") into both the supply and return side of my unit.

Then the probe is placed inside and sealed.

 

Depending on your fridge, you may be able to bring the probe in through the water connection and then seal that.

Look up on brewing web sites for the process of drilling a hole and sealing it. A lot of beer makers will modify their fridges to have lines coming in and out of it.

 

Once the probes were in place I connected them to a hub. That Hub is connected to a 1 wire bus master.

http://www.sheepwalkelectronics.co.uk/index.shtml is where I got most of my items.

 

Bus Master is on a Raspberry PI.

 

If going this route, for initial setup, you are looking at ~40 Pounds for the 1 wire stuff. This will get you a room temperature and a probe temperature.

 

For the Raspberry PI

- 12 bucks for a small USB wireless Dongle

- You'll need an SD card

- Anything with USB power Micro USB, like an old phone charger.

- $30 for the PI Model A

 

The setup can be complete for ~$100. Adding additional sensors are much cheaper. My entire setup with ~ 20 probes ran be around $200-$300.

[madcodger]

Madbomber83,

 

Very helpful posts - thanks!

[jgorm]

Well, how much do you want to spend?

 

I am using a 1 wire bus to send about 20 temperatures to my isy over a wifi connection.

 

IO Guy has a sub forum here for the Automation Shack.

 

You would have two options.

 

The preffered is a wired, wireless setup (what I have).

- Place a 1 wire probe into the area you want to monitor (they make them for a few bucks).

- Connect this probe to your 1 wire bus.

- This is connected to a Raspberry PI.

- The Raspberry PI is on your WiFi Network.

- The Raspberry PI would need a plug or usb port for power.

 

Using the OWLink Software from IO Guy, you can read all these temperatures into ISY as Variables or States. From there do what you like.

 

 

 

True Wireless is a bit harder as you have to power a WiFi connection. This is not as easy on a battery that you are not charging every day. But this can still be done, possibly with the full temperature probe being wireless as well.

 

Check out this Blogfrom a guy who hooked up the 1 wire sensor into a tin box with a battery, radio transmitter and some micro controllers.

 

In the end, all this data is sent to a Raspberry PI like device at a remote location.

 

 

 

In my 1 wire bus setup, I am using the temperatures to control cooling setpoints and fans. I'm in the process of changing out my HVAC and when complete they will also control HVAC Zones.

 

All of this computing is up in my attic, and connected by WiFi to my home network / Isy.

How much would it cost me to have you or one of your friends setup something that I can just connect to my ISY and wire up my 1-wire sensors? I don't have time to learn programming and figuring everything out, but I've wanted something with some logic so I can use statements like If sensor one > sensor 2, turn fan on.

[MaddBomber83]

How much would it cost me to have you or one of your friends setup something that I can just connect to my ISY and wire up my 1-wire sensors? I don't have time to learn programming and figuring everything out, but I've wanted something with some logic so I can use statements like If sensor one > sensor 2, turn fan on.

 

If max90034 is ok with it, you could just continue posting in this thread.

 

Really, the first step is to give a good describe of your situation and what you would like to do.

From there we can come up with the Hardware and the Programs you would need to accomplish that.

 

 

As for paying someone to help....

The most difficult part of the system from a software perspective was getting the Raspberry PI set up with the File Server and Probes. Then getting it all to start up automatically.

As this was the most difficult part, it is likely I could package up the image for the Raspberry PI. In this way you would buy all the parts yourself, and then I would send you the files to load onto the PI's SD card.

 

Then some quick steps to set up the PI / ISY Variables / Connect 1 Wire to those Variables.

After that it is all ISY programming. And there is lots of help on the forums for that. I can also give you some example programs and the community can help with your specific situation.

 

You would be paying for all the hardware. The software from me would be free. Support on these forums is always free.

- The only software expense I would suggest is sending a Donation to IOGuy for creating the OWLink server.

- Wait until you have everything up and running and you like it. Then shoot him a donation as a thank you for his work.

 

 

The 1 wire probes are all physically wired up to a controller connected to the Raspberry PI.

- They can use any wires, but the most common is Cat 5 cable. This is cheap and easy to connect (you just plug them all into each other).

 

The Raspberry PI can then be connected to your home network over WiFi.

 

The Raspberry PI will need to have a One Wire File System running on it to get all the Temperatures/Humidity from the One Wire Controller.

The Raspberry PI will be running IO Guy's OWLink that will update the variables you set in the ISY with the Temperatures/Humidity from the One Wire File system.

 

From there it is ISY programming.

 

I have several programs currently taking advantage of the temperature information. There are some 'work a rounds' in place as the ISY has limited support for interaction between modules/devices and variables.

 

The next update is supposed to expand on this support.

 

 

 

The main thing that I use the temperatures for is turning on the fan if they differ to much around the house. So if our front room is > 1 degree F different from the back room, the fan kicks on until they are equalized.

 

I'm now in the process of changing out a bunch of HVAC equipment where I'll have a zoned system. Here the probes will start opening and shutting dampers based on temperature. They'll also control bringing in fresh air through a fresh air supply line. The attic fan I'm installing will also be controlled by the temperature probes.

 

A neat thing will be hooking HVAC into the Garage. The Garage will actually get most of its cooling through the Attic Fan. If we are going to be in the Garage all day I'll have a normally shut Damper open up and start controlling the Garage Temperature with the Central Air System.

 

Last I'll wire up humidity detectors for the bathroom fans.

 

 

 

I have notifications set up to let me know if the temperature in any room gets messed up.

 

I also have a daily email that tells me how long the Fan, Cooling, Heating and Off were active along with the Min / Max temperatures for each room and outside.

 

Notifications are also generated if there are errors in the system.

[MaddBomber83]

I should add that IO guy has an ISY Variable Data Logger that is useful for temperatures.

 

Essentially, you run it from any computer and it connects to your ISY and logs in a CSV (Excel can Read this) all the Variables you specify at a frequency you specify. From there you can create charts and such to review the data. I'm using this to tweak some of my HVAC settings (like what DT to turn the fan on, and for tuning damper positions so all the rooms change temperature at about the same rate).

[whywork]

Hi,

 

FWIW -

 

I found that my Wireless Thermostat 2441ZTH actually worked pretty well inside my 15 year old refrigerator, both the main compartment and freezer compartment.

 

When I was troubleshooting intermittent results with a program to alert me to "low temps," I put my 2441ZTH in my refrigerator (and freezer) to create rapid temperature changes and force updates to my ISY. http://www.forum.universal-devices.com/ ... 22&start=0

 

I was surprised to find that the thermostat NEVER lost communication with my ISY/PLM even in when it was in the refrigerator. My refrigerator is about 5 feet from the nearest dual band insteon device and I can't tell if the front door is ALL Metal or some really hard plastic (not a true Faraday cage). Anyway, my thermostat was happy to record/report interior temperatures of my refrigerator for days on end.

 

One final note: The Wireless Thermostat 2441ZTH stops displaying temperature on its front LCD at around 40 deg F and then shows a dash (I don't remember exact temp, may be 30, but as some point a dash appears). However, at the same time, the 2441ZTH was happy continue to send my ISY temperatures down to at least 0 deg F (inside the freezer compartment).

 

Not an endorsement as a "freezer monitor", but the 2441ZTH communicates reliably from inside my 15 year old refrigerator.

[MaddBomber83]

Did you get any data on what the battery life would be?

 

For $80 the Insteon Wireless one would be a better choice for 1 or 2 readings. At 3 or more it seems the 1 wire becomes a cost advantage.

 

I know it says 2 limit, but I'm assuming you can have more with ISY?

[jgorm]

My goal is to have multiple temp sensors, around my house, under my house, in my attic, around the outside of my house, in my server closet, etc. Hopefully i'll end up with ~20 sensors. I might use some electric dampers on my HVAC system to better control air flow to where it is needed most.

 

I will use wired ethernet.

It looks like I need the Raspberry, maybe like this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Pi-Mode ... B009SQQF9C

Then the one wire controller looks like I need a DS2413P+

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/e ... us&lang=en

Then these for the temp sensors.

DS18B20+-ND

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... -ND/956983

 

Is this all I need?

[MaddBomber83]

So next step for you then.

 

How many 'nodes' will you need. A node is where all the wires connect up together. An example may be that you have one in the attic and one under the house. This will determine how many controllers you will need.

 

You could do the full thing with 1 node (1 raspberry PI) if all the wires can connect to each other. Otherwise you can split out into two controllers, as an example a WiFi connected one if you don't want to run wires between your sensors in the attic and your router in the office.

 

The second part is how many 'clusters' you have. A cluster is where all the probes plug in so that each prob is not longer than 6 meters from a cluster. An example is I have 1 cluster for the rooms at the back of my house and 1 cluster for the rooms at the front of my house.

[madcodger]

FWIW, I think there is a small market for someone to create a "plug N play" Raspberry Pi ready to talk to the ISY and provide temp (and hopefully humidity) readings without the need for the user to learn how to actually program a Raspberry Pi. I think I saw a similar comment in this or a similar thread, as well.

 

I really need temp / humidity monitoring, and have a few minutes here and there to run some sensors on a weekend, but just don't have time to learn programming right now. A few minutes on this and a couple of other boards via Tap a Talk is the extent of my HA time these days. If any takets, feel free to post or PM.

[MaddBomber83]

FWIW, I think there is a small market for someone to create a "plug N play" Raspberry Pi ready to talk to the ISY and provide temp (and hopefully humidity) readings without the need for the user to learn how to actually program a Raspberry Pi. I think I saw a similar comment in this or a similar thread, as well.

 

I really need temp / humidity monitoring, and have a few minutes here and there to run some sensors on a weekend, but just don't have time to learn programming right now. A few minutes on this and a couple of other boards via Tap a Talk is the extent of my HA time these days. If any takets, feel free to post or PM.

 

MadCodger;

 

The same would apply to you. I have thoughts on getting a proper thread together that goes into more detail, but I would like to get more of my install done first so I can give pictures and such.

 

 

Describe what you would like to do. I'll ask a few more questions and then give a 'things to buy' list.

 

You'll essentially download a pre-made image file and load that onto an SD card.

The Raspberry PI should boot up and be running the OWLink Server and the OWFS for the Temps/Humidity.

You'll use a web browser to connect to the OWLink Server and tell it where your ISY is.

You'll create your new temps / humidity variables in ISY and then reboot the Raspberry PI.

Then in that web browser you'll be able to link the Temps / Humidity to Raspberry PI variables (I had my daughter running around the house and putting her hand on the temp probes).

 

At this point everything is set up without you doing programming.

 

Now we move into the ISY. You would let us know what variables you named, and what you would like to accomplish. We could tell you how to program them and / or load up some programs for you to try out. It would take a bit of tweaking until you are satisfied with your system.

 

 

 

So, as mentioned, next step is to describe what you would like to do.

[jgorm]

So next step for you then.

 

How many 'nodes' will you need. A node is where all the wires connect up together. An example may be that you have one in the attic and one under the house. This will determine how many controllers you will need.

 

You could do the full thing with 1 node (1 raspberry PI) if all the wires can connect to each other. Otherwise you can split out into two controllers, as an example a WiFi connected one if you don't want to run wires between your sensors in the attic and your router in the office.

 

The second part is how many 'clusters' you have. A cluster is where all the probes plug in so that each prob is not longer than 6 meters from a cluster. An example is I have 1 cluster for the rooms at the back of my house and 1 cluster for the rooms at the front of my house.

I'll probably start out small and grow the system once I see how well it works. I would start with one node and probably 3 clusters.

 

Is there a limit on wire length between the clusters?

Does the cluster need power?

Could I use cat6 and RJ45 3 way splitters to connect everything? I figured I could solder cat6 onto the sensors and stick a plug on the end to simplify connections to the main bus line. I'm pretty fast at adding the connectors to cat6.

 

Thanks for all of your help! This is something that I've been looking into for a long time and previously I thought the only way to do with was with a PLC and HMI, but that is a daunting task! This seems much more manageable!

[arw01]

For the one wire reader on the Pi, check out the sheepwalkelectronics.co.uk site (google that) for the RPI2 module. It's the one IOguy bought and uses now.

 

Alan