Programing

[3PNTSTech]

Hi there,

I'm new to UDI, but so far it's looks like a awesome tool. I'm not a programer by trade, but I was wondering if someone would be willing to help me.

 

I used this link below to setup a simple motion, triggers lights, and lights to stay on for 15 minutes, if motion is sensed again, that it would stay on type of thing.

 

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Using_Motion_Sensors_in_Bathrooms

 

However, even using that, once the motion sensor turns off, it turns off the light too. Doesn't repeat or anything.

 

I'm more of a guy that likes to be shown first, then I can go from there.

 

So what am I doing wrong? Is it that I setup the lights in a Scene... because before I setup any type of program, it would turn them on or off. Or is a push to device type of thing? Any suggestion welcome.

 

I used Code 4,5,6 in the WIKI, and can't get it to work.

5. Program Main Bath Motion On - Enabled

If
       Control 'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is switched On
   And Program 'Main Bath Motion Timer Enable' is True
   And Status  'Main Bath Lights' is not On

Then
       Set Scene 'sMain Bath Lights' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

6. Program Main Bath Motion Timer - Enabled

If
       Status  'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is Off
   And Program 'Main Bath Motion Timer Enable' is True

Then
       Wait  4 minutes 
       Set 'Main Bath Lights' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

7. Program Main Bath Motion Timer Enable - NOT Enabled

If
  - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

Then
       Set Program 'Main Bath Motion Timer Enable' To Run At Startup

Else
       Set Program 'Main Bath Motion Timer Enable' To Not Run At Startup

 

Thanks Kev.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Kev,

 

I think it would be best to start with a very simple program first (disable all other programs):

 

If
       Control 'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is switched On
   And Control 'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is not switched Off

Then
       Set Scene 'sMain Bath Lights' On
       Wait 4 minutes
       Set Scene 'sMain Bath Lights' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

This program will keep the bathroom light on for 4 minutes starting the moment that the motion is sensed and turns off thereafter.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

"Is it that I setup the lights in a Scene... because before I setup any type of program, it would turn them on or off."

 

If the Scene has the Motion Sensor as a Controller and the lights as Responder that is the problem. Delete the Scene as it is turning the lights Off independent of what the Program is doing.

[oberkc]

To continue the thought process started by LeeG, you may also consider a combination of things...

 

Perhaps you would choose to use a scene to directly turn them on from a motion senso (perhaps a little quicker responding) and a program to turn them off. Make sure you explore the "options" for the motion sensor. You can configure the motion sensor to only send an ON command, using the ISY to shut them off after a period of time. But...you don't want both a program and a scene to turn them off.

 

But, my preference is like Michel's: keep it simple. I would even go simpler than his example

 

If
       Control 'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is switched On

Then
       Set Scene 'sMain Bath Lights' On
       Wait 4 minutes
       Set Scene 'sMain Bath Lights' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Like LeeG suggests, make sure your motion sensor is not part of any scene, and make sure it sends only ON commands. Unless you have some specific concerns (such as power failure during 4-minute countdown or need some type of manual override), I would expect this to work fine.

[3PNTSTech]

Awe, thanks guys, I'll give that a try.

 

When deleting a scene, I sometimes think that the "link" is never broke, how do you break or make sure those links are broken?

 

Kevin

[LeeG]

Look for a Green Icon to the left of the nodes involved with the Scene. These indicate pending writes which indicate the link record(s) were not deleted. The Motion Sensor has to be put into manual linking mode for it to be awake so the ISY can update the link database.

 

There is a Show Device Links Table function that displays the link records in a device is you want to visually verify they are deleted.

[3PNTSTech]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info, not sure what I'm doing wrong, but it's not working.

 

I may need to reset everything, but now after clearing the scenes, and create new programs, some of the lights are going on, and staying on, others are turning off.

 

Does Folders make a difference here? So if a program is nested in a folder will that effect it.

 

Give you an example.

 

 

If
       Control 'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is switched On

Then
       Set Insteon 'office Lights' On
       Wait 15 minutes
       Set Insteon 'office Lights' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Once I walk into the room this morning the office lights were still on.

 

Sensor is configured like this:

 

Timeout 2

LED Brightness: 50

Dark Sen: 128

 

Sensing Mode: Checked

On only Mode: Unchecked

Night Mode: Checked

 

maybe I just need to walk away for a bit! hahaha

 

I'll play with a bit more this evening.

 

Kevin

[oberkc]

Does Folders make a difference here?

 

Putting a program in a folder may "disable" a program, but I do not expect this to halt a program, once running.

 

some of the lights are going on, and staying on, others are turning off.

 

When you say "some of the lights", are you stating that some lights within the scene "office lights" are responding as intended, but not all? Otherwise, please elaborate on "some".

 

With your existing program, I see two possibilities that would prevent your lights from turning off. First, if the motion sensor continues to detect motion, it will reset the 15-minute timer. (This is how most would prefer, I suspect.) Second, the scene command fails to reach the intended recipients. There is a third possibility I can think of, but it would involve an ill-timed power failure.

 

Otherwise, this program WILL continue to count down and execute the off command.

 

If the program sends the command to turn the scene on (or off) and you notice only SOME of the lights responding, this tends to suggest (to me) that you have a communication problem.

[3PNTSTech]

Here is my idea.

 

I have a sensor in the office which controls a plug and light. I wanted that once I walk into the room it would turn on that small light and stay on if motion is detected. Which it does. However, with all the changes going on etc. It seems that it's linked to another device.

 

Next to my office is a living space with one sensor and 3 Insteon light bulbs. Before I had them programmed to come on once someone walks into the basement living area, but now when I walk into the room only 2 of the 3 turn on, and it seems that the one light is now controlled by office sensor.

 

This is what i mean about some lights go on and some do not.

 

But what gets me, is my first few initial tries the office light turned on but didn't turn off, even after leaving the room all night the light was still on. I have the following set.

 

If
       Control 'Office Motion' is switched On

Then
       Set 'office Lights' On
       Wait 15 minutes
       Set 'office Lights' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

See what I'm puzzled about, and from past experiences, that one you have a IF/THEN/Else program, the program doesn't run it self again until it stops. So in theory, when you trigger the sensor it would turn on the lights, wait 15 minutes and then turn it off before or even if the sensor is tripped again. but it wouldn't explain why the lights go off even with a program is there, and the lights till go out after 1 minutes even though the program tells it to wait 15.... I'm very weirded out.

 

At this point, I'm wondering if resetting the PLM or whatever you call it. and just fresh clean start would be a good option.

I did relocate the PLM, to a more and less noisy area, I guess it would be ideal if you could install that almost right next to the fuse box eh?

 

Well, I'll leave that for now, and possible tomorrow start fresh. Unless you guys have an idea?

 

Kevin

[LeeG]

"and the lights till go out after 1 minutes even though the program tells it to wait 15."

 

That is normally the result of having linked the Motion Sensor as Controller and the lights as Responder(s). The Motion Sensor times out after 1 minute and turns the lights Off because it is a Controller of the Scene. Could have another Program being triggered that shuts the lights Off in 1 minute but it sounds more like the Motion Sensor is still acting as a Controller.

 

Was the Motion Sensor ever manually linked to the lights, perhaps before you started using ISY Scenes?

 

Resetting the PLM is not an action that should affect the Motion Sensor functioning as a Controller of a Scene. If the Motion Sensor was linked manually to the lights then the Motion Sensor and the lights should be factory reset followed by a Restore Device to each device. If the Motion Sensor was added to an ISY Scene it should be deleted from the ISY Scene.

[oberkc]

but it wouldn't explain why the lights go off even with a program is there, and the lights till go out after 1 minutes even though the program tells it to wait 15.... I'm very weirded out.

 

Which is why, at this point, simple is good. The program is fine. If you are having behavior that is hard to explain, look to issues other than the program.

 

1) As suggested by LeeG, it appears you may still have scenes in play, where a motion sensor is controller and some devices are responder, and the motion sensor is set with a 1-minute timeout. If you created these scenes manually (running around the house tapping buttons) , make sure you delete these scenes. Perhaps this could be done by "restoring" the device through the ISY. Alternatively, the instructions for each device describe how to do this. If the only devices you have in the ISY are the motion sensor, plug, and a few bulbs, perhaps it would be better to factory reset each, removing from the ISY and reading.

 

2) If you are seeing INCONSISTENT behavior, I would look for communication issues. Does it work sometimes or do the lights ALWAYS go off after 1 minute? Do all the lights go off sometime, or only 2 of 3 go off every time. When things work sometimes, but not always, I tend to think communication.

 

See what I'm puzzled about, and from past experiences, that one you have a IF/THEN/Else program, the program doesn't run it self again until it stops.

 

With the ISY, WAIT statements can be interrupted. A program in a WAIT condition can retrigger and start over.

 

At this point, I'm wondering if resetting the PLM or whatever you call it.

 

I would not do this. I might try restoring the individual devices, or removing them all from the ISY and factory resetting them, but I don't believe restoring the PLM will solve whatever problems you are having.

 

I did relocate the PLM, to a more and less noisy area, I guess it would be ideal if you could install that almost right next to the fuse box eh?

 

This might help if you are experiencing communication problems. It seems to me that the most common problems people continue to fail to understand is that one needs to couple the "phases" ("Legs" is more technically correct, I understand) of your electrical system, and that plugging the PLM into the same outlet as computers/UPS/surge supressors/printers/modems/routers can create difficulties.

 

Next to the fuse box is good. A dedicated circuit would be good, if an overkill. Access points are good. Filters are your friend.

[3PNTSTech]

Not sure why it double posted here... must be sleepie!

[3PNTSTech]

Awe thanks guys, your great.

 

No I removed all the scenes, however it seems that the "scenes" are still there. but there is no scene in ISY.

 

I am going to try to relocate the PLM away from everything just I have the ISY next to the (servers) which the PLM is currently plugged into the same (dedicated Line for them) Its not on serge protection, just on a the same line something like this:

 

PLM ----- PLUG ------ PLUG-----FUSE BOX---- OUTSIDE WORLD
                        |
                   A few servers

 

Other than that I really don't how else to bring everything to a start point, to ensure good communication, (as all of my stuff is duel band) and the stuff removes links.

 

Kevin

[LeeG]

Were any manual Set button links established before using ISY Scenes?

 

Were the Motion Sensors put into linking mode one at a time when the Scenes were deleted so the links could be deleted from the Motion Sensors?

[oberkc]

however it seems that the "scenes" are still there. but there is no scene in ISY.

 

One way to confirm this would be to temporarily disable the program, then see if your devices still respond to the motion sensor. If so, you still have scenes somewhere.

 

You may consider performing a device restore from the ISY. Like LeeG suggests, in order to reprogram/restore/configure/set up scenes in a motion sensor, one must put the motion sensor in the linking mode, then write the changes to it. Do you see any little green arrows next to the motion sensor in the device listing?

 

Failing those things, the best approach would be to remove the devices from the ISY, perform a factory reset on the devices, add back, then recreate any needed programs.

 

I am going to try to relocate the PLM away from everything just I have the ISY next to the (servers) which the PLM is currently plugged into the same (dedicated Line for them) Its not on serge protection, just on a the same line something like this:

 

Unless you see signs of communication errors, this may not be an issue. Long term, however, I believe it best that the ISY on a really-good circuit. Given this, I would filter your servers, and any other electronic gizmo on that circuit. The PLM is too important.

[3PNTSTech]

Yeah thinking maybe a full restore and clear is needed.

 

I removed the Montion Sensor from ISY, and re-added it. check to ensure that the lights were not going on and off.

 

the lights in the basement are now acting when I walk into the office. So must be a communication issue.

 

So it's not that they are work sometimes, they are working all the time, just not link or maybe incorrectly linked.

 

Oh, I even factory reset the sensor and deleted it from ISY. So there is something a little fishy.

 

Kevin

[LeeG]

Links exist in both the Controller and Responder. Resetting only one device leaves broken links. If the Responder still has a link it will respond to the Group Broadcast message from the Motion Sensor even though the Motion Sensor does not contain a link pointing to the Responder.