ISY994 program to send cmd1/cmd2?

[mschwab]

I'd like to have an ISY program set all 8 output relays in an EZIO8SA with a single command.

 

The Simplehomenet Utility Suite knows how to send a whole hex byte at once to the 8SA. There's a Port Value (HEX) button and field that I can use to set all 8 bits at once. But the Event Viewer on the ISY doesn't seem to be able to catch what is being sent by the Utility Suite.

 

I set the port hex value to 3C, and the Insteon Traffic tab of the Utility Suite says it sent:

17 from ID:28:AD:E4 flags: 2B cmd1:48 cmd2:3C

 

Is there any way I can replicate that command (cmd1=48, cmd2=xx, preferably where the hex pattern xx comes from a variable), from an ISY program?

[LeeG]

That cannot be done with the ISY. The event viewer will not display commands issued by the SHN Utility. Insteon does not work that way. Even knowing the command, which is described in a document on the Smartenit web site, the ISY cannot send it.

[ELA]

Hello mschwab,

 

I had bought the EZIO8SA with the intent of being able to use the full 64 binary combinations of relays from the ISY. I was disappointed to find out that was not something the ISY supported.

 

Depending upon how badly you want to pursue it there is a possible work around discussed here:

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9888&hilit=snapshot

 

I tested it and it worked well. The downside is as LeeG pointed out that if you do a restore you will loose the custom links you had created using the utility.

[mschwab]

Thanks, ELA. (Technically, there would be 256 possible output combinations with a 8 relay outputs. But I understood what you meant. )

 

But I could not follow what is was that you did (from that other thread) that worked for you. I don't know how to make manual links with the Utility.

[ELA]

I should have been more specific. I used two relays to switch power and thus they were activated as part of each group command leaving 64 binary combinations.

 

How many different scenes do you need total for the EZIO8SA? If I remember correctly I ended up with an ISY limit of 8 scenes after having gone through all the link record edits.

 

It has been a long while since I worked with the EZIO8SA. I will give you an overview as best I can recall without setting it up again to review.

LeeG is the best resource for these things and hopefully he can provide better detail where I am missing something.

 

1) Set up the unique scenes in the ISY with just 1 relay per scene ( 1-8 ) scenes.

2) Connect directly to the EZIO8SA PLM with the SHN utility.

3) Use Manage device links ( ALDB medium I think it was).

4) Display the link records.

5) Use "write link records" to change each individual link record's data bytes #2 & 3

format = Responder, Group#, 3 address bytes, data byte1, 2, 3

for ex. the existing link record might be: A2, 3B, xx, yy, zz, FF, 00, 01

change data byte @2 & 3 : A2, 3B, xx, yy, zz, FF, 80, C1 ( for relays 8,7,1)

 

I believe the data byte #2 was always "80" and byte #3 is the relay "snapshot" you desire for that group

 

 

Good luck should you decide to decide to implement this.

[mschwab]

"The ISY994i/IR PRO supports up to 1,024 devices and scenes and a maximum of 1,000 programs."

So I do not expect to be limited to just 8 scenes. I would be most upset.

[LeeG]

The discussion of Scenes by ELA has nothing to do with how many Scenes the ISY/PLM support. There is a document on the Smartenit web site that discusses the various link record formats the EZIOxx family of devices support. Most of these are not supported by the ISY. Manually adjusting link records should be left to the folks who are familiar with link records and know the impact to the ISY environment when using unsupported formats.

 

You can PM and I will take the conversation offline but would prefer not to add detail here. I strongly suggest not moving in this direction.

[mschwab]

Well, even though I have Michel and Justin (from Smartenit) in a running email discussion, I still have no other direction to move.

 

Base problem - I want an Insteon voice annunciator, for 30+ voice announcements (so I can retire my JDS Stargate controller), and I did not want to spend $800 or more (for an ELK system).

 

So I got an EE508VIF + EE532EXP to have up to 40 voice announcements, and it sounds pretty good. I now have 40 input contacts, and I need some way to drive just 1 at a time with an active-low pulse.

 

So I got 3 4-to-16 decoders (74HC154), and so I figure if I can drive 4 binary encoded bits, plus 3 strobe lines, I've got it. Total parts cost so far less than $160.

 

Adding just one EZIO8SA more than doubles the cost already. I start with an ISY program to set the 4 binary bits separately, then strobe another bit. The problem? It doesn't set all the relays reliably the way I want (so I'd get the wrong announcement), and it runs very slow. Seems like each line takes a second, so my voice announcement would be delayed like 5-6 seconds after the triggering sensor change.

 

Adding 5 EZIO8SAs (to drive each of 40 inputs separately), would now cost more than the ELK system.

 

When I noticed the SHN Utility could drive all 8 bits at once, I got my hopes up. But apparently the ELK system is my only option (even though my wife says she doesn't want a security system).

 

Or learn how to add an Insteon modem chip to my Beagle Board? Going the developer route would probably cost just as much as the ELK (not to mention I don't have that much spare time for learning).

[LeeG]

Some Insteon devices such as a KeypadLinc can turn On multiple buttons at the same. Unfortunately the EZIO8SA stops when it finds the first responder link record. The ISY would have to add support for a new form of link record to add that capability to the EZIO8SA.

 

I would think some TTL logic that takes inputs from 8 I/O Linc relays and drives 40 relays would be cheaper than moving to an ELK. With an I/O Linc an additional PLM per EZIO8SA is not needed reducing cost. I don't think an individual PLM chip cannot be purchased. If the voice box can be driven from TTL the 40 relays would not be needed.

[mschwab]

The 74HC154 (4-to-16 decoders) would be the logic. (Yeah, I still think of them as TTL as well, even though that tech is almost as old as I am! )

 

So, the I/O Linc's don't need a PLM, because they have one built-in? But they only have one output relay each, right?

 

Let me see - 8 I/O Linc's at $46 each is $368. I thought the EZIO8SA+PLM was the equivalent of buying 8 I/O Linc's, for half the price.

 

And the program would have the same problem - taking a second to change each I/O Linc output would still take 5-6 seconds for my announcement to respond to a sensor change.

 

"If the voice box can be driven from TTL the 40 relays would not be needed." Yes, the logic cuts it down from 40 relays, but I still need at least 6 relays to decode to 40 outputs.

[LeeG]

There would be no delay. A Scene would turn On/Off whatever I/O Lincs were appropriate for the particular message. One Insteon Scene command to control the 8 I/O Lincs. No different than a Scene controlling 8 different SwitchLincs. A single EZIO8SA/PLM is less expensive. However, since it does not satisfy the requirement (control x relays at once using ISY) the I/O Lincs are a functional alternative.

 

EDIT: If 6 Relays are all that is necessary than the I/O Linc approach is not much more expensive.

[mschwab]

OK, you may be right. But that means six PLM-sized boxes to plug in.

 

I see the I/O Linc has a pass-through (uncontrolled) outlet on top. Does that mean I can plug six of them on top of each other, making a nice stack?

[Brian H]

Stacking Insteon Modules is not the best idea.

Heat will build up in the modules and may shorten their lives.

I have a few 2456S3 old hardware ApplianceLincs stacked and they get very warm. I have had a fes of them fail. Though they are from early 2006.

Older users manuals discouraged stacking them.

[Xathros]

I'm thinking the digital IO on a CAI Webcontrol board or Raspberry Pi might be more cost effective and easier to implement here. Do you really need relay contacts to drive the TTL decoders? Use the ISY network module to talk to the controller.

-Xathros

[mschwab]

Do you really need relay contacts to drive the TTL decoders? -Xathros

No. But then everything else you said went right over my head. I've not explored the network interface, I've never done any TCP/IP programming, and I don't have those boards you mentioned or know anything about them. I do have a Beagleboard I acquired for a project that then went another direction, but I've never programmed that either.

 

I should have mentioned I'm looking for the lowest investment in time, as well as dollars!

 

Maybe someone can convince me that the $800 for the ELK is worth it to me, because:

A. The voice announcements in the ELK are quick to trigger (from the ISY), easy to set up, and just as flexible (i.e. be able to record any custom WAV file, up to 40 messages).

B. That the telephone support and many other features of the ELK add a lot of other benefit.