Repair of 2413S PLM When the Power Supply Fails

[RIckG]

Sucess with an EZflora!  It went dead last week and I found this thread.  I replaced the caps from Digikey.  The caps didn't have any physical damage, leaking or swollen, but C13 was gone based on the ESR value.  So, even if they look good and have good capacitance the ESR might be way off causing it to malfunction.

 

Original capacitor values are as follows after I measured them.

C3: 6.6uf, ESR = 8.2 Ohms

C7: 9.9uf, ESR = 7.1 Ohms

C8: 10.37uf ESR = 16 Ohms

C11: 91.4uf,  ESR = 2.0 Ohms

C13: 10.37uf, ESR = 62  Ohms

[Brian H]

Thank you for posting the ESR values.

Since C7 and C13 are both in the switching power supply output. Running at 200 kHz. ESR is important.

 

If you had measured the 12 volt supply that normally is around 18 volts. I have seen it as low as 7 volts and not enough to work with the 5 volt logic regulator.

[Ath94]

I am new to Insteon, I am on the process to install all switches, controllers, etc. I have been following this thread for a while before I did the investment, I am glad there is a solution for the known problem, I don't like to pay rent every two years for PLM replacements. Has smarthome done anything to replace bad quality parts on more recent units? I will buy two units and I will let them die them I will fix them. Anyone's thoughts or advice to replace caps as soon as you buy PLM unit?

I am planning to buy the ISY994iZw/IR PRO Insteon unit PLM bundle.

I will appreciate any comments and help, this seems to be a very respectful and knowledgeable forum. I am glad to be part of it.

Thanks in advance

[Brian H]

The present hardware revision {>2.0}  2413S PLM is supposed to have corrections in them.

Not enough time since the changes to see if they will go past the slightly over two year mark.

 

If you do the caps in a new unit at purchase. You will void any warranty support from Smarthome or Smartlabs.

 

You will also find that the 10uf/35V C7 and C13 maybe100uf/35V. My V2.1 has the larger capacitors.

My hardware 2.1 still has the same brand capacitors in C7 and C13 positions.

What the very latest has may still be different again.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Brian H

[apostolakisl]

I am new to Insteon, I am on the process to install all switches, controllers, etc. I have been following this thread for a while before I did the investment, I am glad there is a solution for the known problem, I don't like to pay rent every two years for PLM replacements. Has smarthome done anything to replace bad quality parts on more recent units? I will buy two units and I will let them die them I will fix them. Anyone's thoughts or advice to replace caps as soon as you buy PLM unit?

I am planning to buy the ISY994iZw/IR PRO Insteon unit PLM bundle.

I will appreciate any comments and help, this seems to be a very respectful and knowledgeable forum. I am glad to be part of it.

Thanks in advance

Or just buy one unit and a set of caps.  This assumes that your unit won't burn out at a really inconvenient time.  If you are someone who knows how to solder, expect the entire repair (first screw to last screw) to take about 30 minutes.  This assumes you have a workbench and soldering station ready to go.

 

You should understand that switching out a PLM can take hours depending on how many devices and links you have.  So a repair would likely be much faster than a replace since no re-writing of your links will need to occur.  It is possible you might need to do a "restore plm" if the flash memory gets messed up in the process of the plm's death throws, but a PLM restore is pretty quick since it only restores the plm and does not have to replace all the plm links on every device in your house.

Edited July 31, 2016 by apostolakisl

[larryllix]

I am new to Insteon, I am on the process to install all switches, controllers, etc. I have been following this thread for a while before I did the investment, I am glad there is a solution for the known problem, I don't like to pay rent every two years for PLM replacements. Has smarthome done anything to replace bad quality parts on more recent units? I will buy two units and I will let them die them I will fix them. Anyone's thoughts or advice to replace caps as soon as you buy PLM unit?

I am planning to buy the ISY994iZw/IR PRO Insteon unit PLM bundle.

I will appreciate any comments and help, this seems to be a very respectful and knowledgeable forum. I am glad to be part of it.

Thanks in advance

What I did was, use the initial PLM for about a year and a half and then, on sale, bought another PLM and swapped it in.

 

In a year or two another more reliable version could come out. It is not likely your first PLM would fail in that time.

With this plan I have a tested spare and from two different eras, possibly versions.

[nstein]

I am looking at repairing my old PLM because my new one (v2 hardware) isn't as reliable as my older ones. Keypad buttons, scenes triggered by ISY where out of sync with the new, yet they where reliable with the older ones;

 

I also suffered from the dreaded all on (and all off) bug with a version 2 hardware even though they supposedly removed the commands.

 

I am currently using an really old single band PLM with an access point plugged into it at the moment, while waiting to get my v1 hardware dual band repaired;  The sad news is that old single band PLM works more reliable than my new v2 I got this year.

 

-Nick

[jondaddio]

Why does it seem that Smarthome Insteon devices get worse with each successive update?  Seems to apply to later PLMs as well as the Insteon Hubs (I read through the review comments).  Not confidence building for Smarthome/Insteon, is it?

 

Anyway, my PLM failed, too, after a number of years -- at least 2 if not 3 or more (I looked up my orders but couldn't find this one).  

 

2413S

V1.A

1239

 

OMG, I do note the poor quality of soldering and ugly brown flux residue all over the circuit board in my PLM.  One of the most unprofessional soldering jobs I've ever seen in a consumer product.  Had to be a cheap Chinese outfit doing this work for Smarthome 3 or so years ago.

 

But thank goodness for this thread and your comments.

 

I just replaced the 5 capacitors.  And the green LED is back on.

[Brian H]

Thank you for the added information on your 2413S PLM.

Happy to read it is now functioning again.

I have also seen some real poor soldering and cleaning in Insteon modules.

 

1239 is 39th week of 2012.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Brian H

[BigMoose1]

I had to replace a PLM that was 2 years and 4 months old.  (My brother also had one fail two weeks before mine.  His was the same age but he was able to replace the capacitors and was back on line quickly.)

 

I bought a new PLM from Smarthome and followed the instructions on the WiKi for replacing a PLM.  Prior to my old PLM failing, I had 128 links but now I have only 125. 

 

During the replacement process, I had a 1011 notes for all of my Insteon Bulbs both 60 watt and 75 watt equivalents and for obvious reasons, for my battery operated  motion detectors and leak detectors.

 

Not sure if this was the correct procedure, I right clicked on each of the bulbs and clicked on the write updates to device.  That worked for all the bulbs and for all of the battery devices once I began the link process for those battery devices.

 

So at this point, in Network view, all of my devices appear to be in the system (linked?). 

 

Now my question is this.   Is there a way to find my 3 missing links?  Other than not having all the links, everything seems to work as programmed.

 

Thanks for any help

[Brian H]

If everything is working 100%.

It is possible you had some links from changes or removed devices in the Link Database.

The restore would not put the unused links back. So your count is now only the active links.

[BigMoose1]

Brian

 

Thanks. I suspected I may have done something with the old Plm especially since the link count was taken a day before it died.

 

Appreciate your response and my peace of mind. I won't spend anymore time looking for missing links

[The_Penguin]

Well I've been following this thread since Oct 2014, and just last week my PLM (Purchased Nov 2013) died.

For about a year, I'd occasionally lose contact with 1 or 2 devices, but  only once had to power reset it. I always figured one day I'd be replacing caps.

Sure enough, last week I first noticed that the outside lights didn't come on when the garage door opened. Then while working in the garage I noticed I didn't get a text when the door had been open more than 6 minutes.

 

Logged in the the ISY, and no devices found, but could query the PLM info.  

Power cycled the PLM and nothing. Not even an LED blink.

 

Finally got a chance to repair it today.  Left the 450v cap alone as in my experience with a metric boatload of LCD monitor repairs, they almost never fail.

Replaced 4 or 5 caps on the main pcb with Panasonic FM series that I had in stock.

I left the interface daughterboard alone. 

Most of the 10uf caps measured low in capacitance and quite high in ESR.  I didn't take notes, but will go back down to the bench later and record the info.

 

Re-assembled, and it's working fine.

[The_Penguin]

 

Most of the 10uf caps measured low in capacitance and quite high in ESR.  I didn't take notes, but will go back down to the bench later and record the info.

 

 

All tests out of circuit:

 

The 100uf@25v measured 92.6uf and .02 ohms ESR 

1st 10uf @ 35v  9.06uf 5.7ohms ESR

2nd 10uf@35v 4.3uf 93  ohms ESR

The 10uf@16v  8uf 14 ohms ESR.

 

Even if low ESR caps aren't specifically required (I'd think they are here due to the switch-mode PS) that high an ESR indicates failing caps for sure.

[Brian H]

Thank you for posting the ESR values from the original capacitors. As I don't have an ESR meter.

The values you posted look really terrible.

 

The two 10uF/35V C7 and C13 are on the small switching regulator and should be low ESR. As the regulator runs at at 200kHz.

My later hardware revision 2.1PLM. Has 100uF/35V ones in C7 and C13. Though my 2.1 has the same questionable brand capacitors as my older ones.

 

Gee the100uF/35V ones in mine have a bigger sized can. Better to swell up or blow the rubber seal out of the bottom. When they fail.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Brian H

[The_Penguin]

 

My later hardware revision 2.1PLM. Has 100uF/35V ones in C7 and C13. Though my 2.1 has the same questionable brand capacitors as my older ones.

 

I was surprised that none were bulging, as most devices I've repaired that completely fail to start have at least a few bloaters. 

I thought about increasing the values, but I figure if it lasted 3 years with crap brand caps, it should do another 6 with good quality replacements

I have not seen any recurring failures in the 40+ monitors, and few TVs and printers I've repaired over the last 6 years.

 

You mention C7 and 13 being 100uf in later versions, any corresponding component changes like resistor values that you noticed?

[Brian H]

I have not seen any different components in the V2.1 but it is new enough {still in warranty}  that I have not taken it out of the case. To look at the back side of the PCB where many of the power supply parts are mounted.

 

I do have two hardware V1.0 where they had rework on it. Looked like they only had one capacitor on the unregulated 12 volts, not the Pi filter, and had to wire in the second capacitor and coil. To make the Pi filter. All three parts are just hanging off of the PCB. One of the two is pushing it even closer. Had 25 volt capacitors. Unregulated 12 volts is closer to 18.5 volts. That C7 and C13 are the filters.

Somewhere in this thread I believe there are a few photos of a V1.0.

[arledgsc]

Repaired a 2-yr old 2413S that was on its way out.  Some of the original caps listed available from Mouser have been superseded or not available.  Here's what I used.  Thanks for this post!  

 

647-UMF1C100MDD    UMF1C100MDD  16volts 10uF

661-EKMG500D100ME11D  EKMG500ETD100ME11D  10uF 50 Volt

647-UTT1E101MPD   UTT1E101MPD    25volts 100uF

80-ESX106M400AH4AA  ESX106M400AH4AA   400volts 10uF 20%

Edited August 28, 2016 by arledgsc

[dimensionzero]

Hi All,

 

I too went through this probably about 2 years ago when my V1.B 2413S died about 2 years into it's life.

The cap replacement worked like a charm but now, sadly I fear it may have failed again.

 

The ISY no longer connects to the PLM but the LED light is.

Do you guys think replacing the caps again will bring it back to life or is there something different going on and maybe better off buying a new one?

[The_Penguin]

 

The cap replacement worked like a charm but now, sadly I fear it may have failed again.

 

The ISY no longer connects to the PLM but the LED light is.

Do you guys think replacing the caps again will bring it back to life or is there something different going on and maybe better off buying a new one?

Could very well be caps again.  I've never checked mine to see how warm it runs.

 What type of caps did you use?  I find when I use a good quality 105 degree rated  low ESR cap in my repairs of other devices, they last at least 3 years (actually haven't had any returns in 4 years)

[Brian H]

If it worked for two years after changing the caps and is now having issues.

I will add my vote for the caps going bad again.

Depending on how bad the power supply voltage is. The LED may still be On and it will not function.

[dimensionzero]

Could very well be caps again.  I've never checked mine to see how warm it runs.

 What type of caps did you use?  I find when I use a good quality 105 degree rated  low ESR cap in my repairs of other devices, they last at least 3 years (actually haven't had any returns in 4 years)

 

 

If it worked for two years after changing the caps and is now having issues.

I will add my vote for the caps going bad again.

Depending on how bad the power supply voltage is. The LED may still be On and it will not function.

 

 

Hmm yeah I'll have to dig out the parts I bought but I'll give that a go again. No harm in trying anyways!

Thanks guys

[ptcolombo]

So I've read this whole string in preparing to fix my 2413S V1.0.  Yes, it's the original board (Manf date 2009) with than kludgey fix of a cap and coil hanging off C7 and fly wire to another coil.  Got the parts from Shawn at plm.repair@gmail.com (good guy to work with and got the parts in a couple days).  After reading the whole message string carefully, I determined that what I really needed to replaces caps C7 and C13.  C7 is printed on the PCB but C13 is the cap that is hanging off with the coil in the Pi filter.  I noticed as I was removing the (-) lead of C7 from the PCB, it wasn’t really well soldered to begin with and the hole in the PCB was all burnt/black and crapped up both on the top and bottom of the PCB.  Try as I might to clean the hole up, there was no solder pad or area to solder the new lead into.  Looking at the PCB, I can’t figure out where that lead goes since I don’t have a schematic.  Unless anyone out there knows of a way to rejuvenate a burnt hole in a PCB I'm stuck.  Alternatively, can anyone point me to a schematic of this V1.0 board so I can see where the (-) of C7 goes and then jump it directly (what's another wire hanging off the board!)  Thanks in advance.

[Brian H]

I have not seen any schematics of any of the 2413 devices of any hardware revision. Just the real old 2414 PLC and 2412 PLM I have seen.

 

The PCB is a multi layer board. With copper runs on top, bottom and the center layer.

 

The - pad of C7 where C7- and C13- are connect to. Is connected to the center common ground plane. So you may not find a top or bottom run it was originally connected to. Sounds like the plated through hole actually burned away from the center ground plane.

 

On the solder side of the PCB. The - connection of C8 is also the power supply common. Maybe you can put the C7- and C13- through the original hole where the pads use to be and then do a insulated jumper to where the C8- pad is on the bottom.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Brian H

[ptcolombo]

Brian, thanks!  I was wondering about a center plane since holding it to the light, I could see a dark rectangle.  I will give that a shot and report back.

Edited September 11, 2016 by ptcolombo