QuakeTen Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 Hello, I am having trouble adding some new devices and I'm trying to troubleshoot and focus my attention in the right areas. I have a ISY 99iPro/IR and trying to add an access point (#2443) and a dual band on/off. I hoping both of these will help me connect my recently purchased open/close sensors (2843-222) and also motion sensors (2842-222). The firmware version on the ISY is 3.3.10. Do have have the correct version installed or do I need an upgrade? I believe my unit usually tells me automatically if an update is available. Whenever I try to add one of these devices, I am getting an error along the line that the product or device is not support. This is my first venture into dual band or access point style of insteon and not sure where I am going wrong or what I might be missing. Thanks for your help. Ten
Teken Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) 3.3.10 will not support any newer Insteon devices as it's not in the data base. If you add in the device manually and select it from the drop down list it may add one of the device(s). That part is a hit or miss as some previous members had luck on early versions which didn't cry about not being supported. Give it a shot and report back, otherwise its time to upgrade that 99 to a 994 Series Controller. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Edited August 31, 2014 by Teken
stusviews Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 There is no need to add an Access Point to anything because it's neither a controller or responder. The Access Point is an INSTEON signal powerline and RF repeater. As an RF repeater, it's an easy way to bridge the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply. It is important to locate the Access Point(s) correctly when using it/them for the latter function.
Teken Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 There is no need to add an Access Point to anything because it's neither a controller or responder. The Access Point is an INSTEON signal powerline and RF repeater. As an RF repeater, it's an easy way to bridge the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply. It is important to locate the Access Point(s) correctly when using it/them for the latter function. My comment was about the two new Insteon RF devices he has on hand, not the AP module. But that is also valid information as well.
QuakeTen Posted August 31, 2014 Author Posted August 31, 2014 3.3.10 will not support any newer Insteon devices as it's not in the data base. If you add in the device manually and select it from the drop down list it may add one of the device(s). That part is a hit or miss as some previous members had luck on early versions which didn't cry about not being supported. Give it a shot and report back, otherwise its time to upgrade that 99 to a 994 Series Controller. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Thanks. I tried and I am bummed that it didn't work. I told my wife that I would have sensors on the doors for when kids get home from school. Of course, I wanted until this weekend to install so I'm sure I'll be hearing about it from her. I guess I need to start looking into how to migrate my 99 to a 994. Also going to look into solutions which may include Z-wave support. Thanks, Ten
Teken Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 Thanks. I tried and I am bummed that it didn't work. I told my wife that I would have sensors on the doors for when kids get home from school. Of course, I wanted until this weekend to install so I'm sure I'll be hearing about it from her. I guess I need to start looking into how to migrate my 99 to a 994. Also going to look into solutions which may include Z-wave support. Thanks, Ten Engage UDI and see if they will honor the replacement upgrade for you, if so great. Regardless, they also offer the Z-Wave module so that would be a good time to upgrade and migrate to the 994 Series Controller. Migrating from the 99 to the 994 is all documented in the Wiki and is very straight forward.
QuakeTen Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Engage UDI and see if they will honor the replacement upgrade for you, if so great. Regardless, they also offer the Z-Wave module so that would be a good time to upgrade and migrate to the 994 Series Controller. Migrating from the 99 to the 994 is all documented in the Wiki and is very straight forward. Thanks. I reached out to UDI via e-mail on Monday and awaiting a response. SmartHome is having a sale so I may have to jump on that deal if UDI doesn't provide a reply soon
Brian H Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) I believe the Upgrade ISY99i to ISY994i is still listed on the UDI Sales Page. https://www.universal-devices.com/sales/ Check the Smarthome 22% sales restrictions. Some of the Kits are not covered. Edited September 3, 2014 by Brian H
QuakeTen Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 I believe the Upgrade ISY99i to ISY994i is still listed on the UDI Sales Page. https://www.universal-devices.com/sales/ Check the Smarthome 22% sales restrictions. Some of the Kits are not covered. I did check and the 994i (standalone) is covered in the 22% off sale. Quick question to help me make a final decision, if I go the upgrade route on UDI, I am assuming that I return the 99i to UDI. Is that correct? If so, the deal at SmartHome may be better for me as I'd get to keep my 99i and use it at my vacation home. Thanks.
Teken Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I did check and the 994i (standalone) is covered in the 22% off sale. Quick question to help me make a final decision, if I go the upgrade route on UDI, I am assuming that I return the 99i to UDI. Is that correct? If so, the deal at SmartHome may be better for me as I'd get to keep my 99i and use it at my vacation home. Thanks. No, you get to keep the old 99 unit.
QuakeTen Posted September 25, 2014 Author Posted September 25, 2014 Okay, so have have my 994i up and running and I'm still having problems adding the motion sensor and the two open/close sensors. I think the issue has to do with both devices not communicating through a dual band device. I bought and installed a Insteon On/Off module with dual band so that I can plug in into an outlet near the devices. It does not seem to pick-up the wireless signal when I test each device and both will not add to the ISY (since they are not being seen and communicated with). Do I have a defective On/Off or am I missing something else regarding the install. Thanks!
LeeG Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) Assuming the PLM is a 2413 that is the Dual Band device to use. Use New INSTEON Device. Enter the Insteon address of one of the devices, Name of your choice, and Auto Discover. Put the device into manual linking mode. Click Ok on New INSTEON Device. With the device near the 2413 PLM comm should not be a problem. Edited September 25, 2014 by LeeG
QuakeTen Posted September 26, 2014 Author Posted September 26, 2014 Assuming the PLM is a 2413 that is the Dual Band device to use. Use New INSTEON Device. Enter the Insteon address of one of the devices, Name of your choice, and Auto Discover. Put the device into manual linking mode. Click Ok on New INSTEON Device. With the device near the 2413 PLM comm should not be a problem. I don't think the PLM is a 2413. I know it is not a dual band device. I can't recall but it might be a 2412 but I do recall checking compatibility with the 994i before upgrading the from the 99i.
Teken Posted September 26, 2014 Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) I don't think the PLM is a 2413. I know it is not a dual band device. I can't recall but it might be a 2412 but I do recall checking compatibility with the 994i before upgrading the from the 99i. You have a couple options for (long term reliability) upgrade your 2412, to the 2413 dual band PLM. Plug the On/Off module on the same circuit as the existing 2412 PLM and try again. If it adds into the ISY controller you can try to add the new RF devices you have on hand. Please keep in mind you should have installed your AP on one side of the electrical legs and the On/Off module to the other. Follow the coupling test outlined by the users manual to confirm proper bridging of the electrical system. Report Back. Edited September 26, 2014 by Teken
QuakeTen Posted October 1, 2014 Author Posted October 1, 2014 You have a couple options for (long term reliability) upgrade your 2412, to the 2413 dual band PLM. Plug the On/Off module on the same circuit as the existing 2412 PLM and try again. If it adds into the ISY controller you can try to add the new RF devices you have on hand. Please keep in mind you should have installed your AP on one side of the electrical legs and the On/Off module to the other. Follow the coupling test outlined by the users manual to confirm proper bridging of the electrical system. Report Back. Okay. I was able to add the devices by moving the On/Off module to the same circuit as the 2412 PLM. Regarding the AP, I'm pretty sure that my electrical legs are joined as I have two access points and also have the legs joined at the dryer (a holdover from my X10 days). However, I did want to be sure I was covered so I upgraded to the 2413 dual band PLM and also added 5 more dual band devices around the house (at least 1 on each floor and one near (~15 feet) the open/close sensors). So, here is where I am at. All devices have been added to the ISY. The two motion sensors will show motion (on/off display) within the ISY admin panel but the open/close sensors do not seem to respond to the 'query' command and also the status does not change when the open/close senor is activated/deactivated. Any additional help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Xathros Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Open/Close as well as any other battery powered Insteon device will NOT respond to queries as they are sleeping. They should however transmit control and status when activated assuming that are within range of a suitable dual band device. Move on to near the 2413 PLM or an access point and operate it, see if it works there. -Xathros
stusviews Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 You can have 100 Access Points and dual-band devices and still not have the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply bridged (although that's unlikely with a 100 devices). The only ways of ensuring that the opposite legs are coupled is an intimate knowledge of the physical wiring or the easy to perform 4-tap test.
MWareman Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Also, the X10 dryer 'bridge' does not bridge Insteon traffic to my knowledge.
stusviews Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 The powerline frequencies of INSTEON (131.65 kHz) and X10 (120 kHz) are close enough that a bridge for one is effectively a bridge for the other. However, some X10 active couplers (they're also a booster) actually interfere with the INSTEON signal.
Teken Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 The powerline frequencies of INSTEON (131.65 kHz) and X10 (120 kHz) are close enough that a bridge for one is effectively a bridge for the other. However, some X10 active couplers (they're also a booster) actually interfere with the INSTEON signal. I have one of the dryer couplers without the X10 booster and it works perfect. Not too sure why Smarthome decided to kill off that product since it worked perfectly and required nothing more than a plug & play affair. Regardless, OP you need to confirm proper coupling of the electrical feed in your home. Keeping in mind all the coupling in the world will not help you if the RF device is too far from a dual band receiver or if the signal is marginal. Dual band devices installed into a metal J box has less reception than a wall mounted plugin device like the AP. I personal always install one in each corner of the home, floor, zone, to ensure complete RF coverage. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
QuakeTen Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 Open/Close as well as any other battery powered Insteon device will NOT respond to queries as they are sleeping. They should however transmit control and status when activated assuming that are within range of a suitable dual band device. Move on to near the 2413 PLM or an access point and operate it, see if it works there. -Xathros Thanks. I think I have a bad open/close sensor. I started working on the second one (further way at the garage door) and it works just fine. I took the "bad" sensor" off the door and moved it all over the house and it does not talk to the ISY. You can have 100 Access Points and dual-band devices and still not have the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply bridged (although that's unlikely with a 100 devices). The only ways of ensuring that the opposite legs are coupled is an intimate knowledge of the physical wiring or the easy to perform 4-tap test. Good to know. I'll look for the instructions and perform the 4-tap test to confirm.
QuakeTen Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Regardless, OP you need to confirm proper coupling of the electrical feed in your home. Keeping in mind all the coupling in the world will not help you if the RF device is too far from a dual band receiver or if the signal is marginal. . Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Both open/close sensors are within ~15' feet of a dual band plug-in device and also within 25' of the 2413 (down one floor). The sensors are in the garage so the distance is open air. The motion sensor is also there and working fine. It is now just down to that one open/close sensor. Edited October 6, 2014 by QuakeTen
Teken Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Remove it from its location and bring it back to the PLM. Follow the linking process and ensure you press and hold the link button until it starts to flash and link it to the ISY. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Edited October 6, 2014 by Teken
QuakeTen Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 You can have 100 Access Points and dual-band devices and still not have the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply bridged (although that's unlikely with a 100 devices). The only ways of ensuring that the opposite legs are coupled is an intimate knowledge of the physical wiring or the easy to perform 4-tap test. I performed the test and I am bridged. Thanks. Remove it from its location and bring it back to the PLM. Follow the linking process and ensure you press and hold the link button until it starts to flash and link it to the ISY. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions I did this as well and it still does not communicate with the ISY. Anything else to try before I call SmartHome and ask for a replacement?
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