HAM Reliability and my workaround

[ravedog]

Pretty disappointed with my HAM options. I live in Vegas on the west side in Summerlin. The default Las Vegas WX station (KLAS) is McCarren Airport. Problem is that our temps (being higher elevation( can be 10 degrees off especially during winter. I found one station near me, but found that it's interval reporting is less than stellar (I have found hours that have gone by before they update, one day being 12 degrees off).

 

So what I'm doing is I've signed up to get a Wundergorund API key and I'm going to use my Mac (really wanted to avoid using other machines that may or not be on or working) to fetch a reliable station that's close to me, thru applescript, the shell and curl to extract the current temp and rest to get it into a variable into the ISY (will post all my results and how to's in a future post).

 

I need this to get accurate temps for some free related programs.

 

Eventually when I wrap my head around the raspberry pi I can probably offload it to it.

 

HAM is just an unreliable alternative (for me at least)

 

NOTE TO MICHEL: On another note, I don't up understand why you didn't go with WUNDERGROUND, they have API keys and the prices (free for me) still are not crazy since you charge for the module.

 

How about allowing the weather module to select from different sources. For instance, HAM as default. WUNDERGROUND or WestherBug as options and then the user just puts in THEIR API key and station number and done. Let the ISY parse the results.

 

(I'm guessing some people here will tell me that I can probably do my solution in the network module, but my head is about to explode on everything else right now so I'm going with the Mac, rest solution until I'm more up to speed.)

 

 

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[Teken]

Pretty disappointed with my HAM options. I live in Vegas on the west side in Summerlin. The default Las Vegas WX station (KLAS) is McCarren Airport. Problem is that our temps (being higher elevation( can be 10 degrees off especially during winter. I found one station near me, but found that it's interval reporting is less than stellar (I have found hours that have gone by before they update, one day being 12 degrees off).

 

So what I'm doing is I've signed up to get a Wundergorund API key and I'm going to use my Mac (really wanted to avoid using other machines that may or not be on or working) to fetch a reliable station that's close to me, thru applescript, the shell and curl to extract the current temp and rest to get it into a variable into the ISY (will post all my results and how to's in a future post).

 

I need this to get accurate temps for some free related programs.

 

Eventually when I wrap my head around the raspberry pi I can probably offload it to it.

 

HAM is just an unreliable alternative (for me at least)

 

NOTE TO MICHEL: On another note, I don't up understand why you didn't go with WUNDERGROUND, they have API keys and the prices (free for me) still are not crazy since you charge for the module.

 

How about allowing the weather module to select from different sources. For instance, HAM as default. WUNDERGROUND or WestherBug as options and then the user just puts in THEIR API key and station number and done. Let the ISY parse the results.

 

(I'm guessing some people here will tell me that I can probably do my solution in the network module, but my head is about to explode on everything else right now so I'm going with the Mac, rest solution until I'm more up to speed.)

 

 

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The last time I read Michels reply it wa due to high UDI fee's. But, I agree if there an option for members to select from a list and use their own API key that is something that should be made available. I believe your problem is going to be the same solution I plan on doing.

 

That is using a PWS and know the weather environmentals are dead on. Right now I have more time than money so am just saving up my pennies for a Davis PWS.

[ravedog]

Order 2.

 

 

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[ravedog]

Parsing data from other sites shouldn't be an issue. They already know wrarherbug. And I looked at the json and XML output from wubderground is super simple to parse.

 

 

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[MWareman]

My issue with the workarounds so far is that I need a reliable ET and 'Irrigation Requirement' reading.

 

Using my own wunderground key in ISY would be awesome! There is a rapid fire station there run by my local park district literally about 50 yards from my house!

 

Even better though would be a way of pushing data into ISY from, say, a Davis unit locally without having to go to the cloud first.

[johnnyt]

I've been using my WU key with (free) homeseer plugin for 5+ years and am still using it despite having purchased climate module because the forecast data is more accurate. I still need to run HS anyway for some math that I can't do with ISY but I do hope one day to retire it and do everything with ISY. Am also planning a PWS soon and would love to have it update ISY variables directly without relying on cloud service.

 

 

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[ravedog]

I was hoping not to involve any other computers in the process but for now my Mac is on all the time all I need is current temps. Eventually I'm going to offload this onto a RasPi when I grok that.

 

 

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[Michel Kohanim]

Hi ravedog,

 

That's not normal ... please check your error logs for any communications issues with the service.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ravedog]

It's not ham per se. It's the stations updating is unreliable. And it's the only station near me. Using wunderground or pws has many station options near me. It's just not a great resource (ham)

 

 

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[Michel Kohanim]

Hi ravedog,

 

I did go up all the way to the management and they promised that they were working on it. The issue seems to be related to how PWS data ends up in HAM and some transformations to cleanse and sanitize it.

 

This said, if things are not addressed in the next 30 days, we will definitely look for another more reliable solution. As a paying customer, you are entitled to something that works and not something that's half-baked.

 

Thanks so very much for your patience.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[io_guy]

Eventually when I wrap my head around the raspberry pi I can probably offload it to it.

I actually wrote a program a couple years ago that runs on my Pi to grab WU data and send it to the ISY.

If HAM doesn't pan out I'll clean up the app and release it.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi io_guy,

 

Thanks so very much and I think it would be wonderful. The main issue is that we have to open up Irrigation variables to external events which is something we should do.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[MWareman]

we have to open up Irrigation variables to external events which is something we should do.

Yes, yes, YES!!

 

Michael.

[ravedog]

Why not go with my solution. Allow the user to use what they want. Allow them to use their own API key and the isy parse the data.

 

Again today. It was 94 and the ham stAtion reported 85. Not useable.

 

 

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[bilsk]

bought the weather mod waaaaay back when  (i thought it was wunderground back then) ..not sure what happened or i am just wrong, BUT .. HAM sucks ..

can we get a wunderground compatible plugin/mod ?  i have had my PWS up and runnign for a long time, figured i'd finally run it into ISY ..poef .. no workey.

Seems to be this should be fairly easy to add, parsing a URL, and grabbing the right values ..

 

i'm willing to help, let me know

[LeeG]

Although going back in time and memory, wunderground would have charged UDI as a company a fee for using the product.  That is why the change was made.   

[Michel Kohanim]

LeeG,

 

Yes, precisely. Thanks so very much!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi blisk,

 

Have you tried having your PWS publish to CWOP which is then picked up by HAM?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[KeviNH]

I'd love to see UDI partner with a PWS vendor!

 

Would be great if ISY994 could provide plug-and-play integration with a home weather monitor.   Could still use HAM for forecast, but override the "current conditions" values automatically with whatever sensors you have at home.   So if I have a rain gauge, temperature, and humidity sensor, I get those local values from my PWS and use the HAM values for everything else.

[bilsk]

nope, that seems a long way to get where i want.

if any isy is seen as a separate 'user' wunderground shouldn't charge fees, maybe a decentralized approach pulling data from http(s) is more feasible?

have been playing around but get a ton of data using wget, the most relevant ones at least .. just need to parse that and assign the vars, would that be something to consider ?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi bilsk,

 

What you are suggesting is illegal from a commercial use perspective. That's why we are currently paying HAM for their services (i.e. we would very much prefer not having to pay anything!!!).

 

With 5.0.x, you can create a node server (or maybe one will exist) and have a climate node and simply push your variables to the properties for that node. As a matter of fact, if you are a developer and comfortable with Python, you can do that now using Polyglot on a Raspberry Pi.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[johnnyt]

I wonder how homeseer is able to do it. I got a personal weather underground API key that I entered into the HS WeatherXML plug-in and its been working for well over 5 years, maybe 10 by now. It didn't cost me anything and, given that I didn't pay for the plug-in either, I figure it didn't cost either HS or the plug-in developer anything. Is that a grandfathered arrangement or is HS doing something illegal?

 

I still have HS running (unfortunately) because I can't load the climate module forecast data into a variable to do calculations with it (at least not without lots of brute force programming), plus I can't get more than one day of forecast data, plus I can't do heat index calculations because ISY doesn't do floating point math.

 

I would also really like to get a PWS and be able to load data directly to ISY, not through the kludgy, relatively high latency process currently offered through HAM (last I looked, anyway).

 

Yes, I'm eagerly awaiting a less bleeding edge 5.x version... and faster hardware... but I digress.

 

 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi johnnyt,

 

I am not sure how they do it. All I know is that we contacted WeatherBug, HAM, and Weather Underground and were told that for commercial usage we need to enter into a commercial licensing agreement. And, based on prices, we used HAM. We have no incentive in paying HAM but we do because it's being used as a commercial product.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[MWareman]

I think HS does the same thing that the Vera does - it implements the API but its not enabled by default. The user, when enabling it, has to setup their own account with Weather Underground to get their own API key and enter it into the product.

 

That way, the licensing (and API restrictions) are between the user and provider, and the device vendor isn't involved - so no commercial use needs licensing.

 

Perhaps a loophole. Maybe valid. Only a lawyer would be able to tell you I'm sure.

 

One thing is for sure - ask the vendor and they will all tell you that you need to pay them - even if you don't.

 

Perhaps it's worth exploring (for Weather Underground) - allow us to enter our own key and set the polling interval to suit our own needs (within our own account T&C).

 

Michael.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Michael,

 

I am quite certain that what is being done is illegal (and we did check with our lawyers). They are providing the service as a commercial entity.

 

There's also an additional aspect: tech support. HAM has been relatively good with tech support and fixing issues. And, this is because we have a licensing agreement with them and SLAs.

 

Perhaps 5.0.x will help those who want to use other weather stations.

 

With kind regards,

Michel