Bob P. Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 With the ISY, I'm trying to figure out why the extra step of defining scenes is desirable. It seems easy enough to just turn things on and off with programs, based on switches being switched and other conditions. Am I missing some basic functionality, or is it just personal preference?
bsobel Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Scenes are an Insteon construct and are very fast, programs can lag a little bit (as the ISY has to receive the Insteon message, process it, and more importantly send a second (or more) Insteon message back on the wire). Scene members do all of their work based on the original Insteon message (and continue to work even if your ISY is off, not that it should be)...
LeeG Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Scenes turn all the Responders On/Off at the same time. An event that is controlling multiple devices, use of a Scene is normal. Direct device to device control, device A controlling device B, must be done with a Scene. Insteon devices use Scenes. Insteon devices cannot use Direct commands. When a Program is used (triggered by a time or device action) the same considerations apply. Yes, multiple devices can be turned On/Off with Direct commands but the devices react in sequence compared to reacting at the same time. If a single device is being controlled by the Program Direct commands are fine. Scenes are normal in Insteon.
Bob P. Posted October 8, 2014 Author Posted October 8, 2014 Are scenes too fast sometimes? Does turning on everything at once cause data collissions I had a scene that turned on three lamps. When the scene was turned on ("If sunset, Then, Turn Scene X"), one of the lamps wouldn't respond. When I changed the program to just - "If sunset, Then, Turn on lamp 1, 2, 3", it worked fine. I still need the ISY running to turn on at sunset. Since I don't really care if the three lamps turn on in quick succession (especially since they're ramping), I don't see that as a drawback. Are direct commands really a big plus? As long as the ISY is reliable, the delay doesn't seem like a big issue.
EricK Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Use scenes when possible. Devices respond faster since communication is from device to device, not relying on the isy. If you have conditions, timers, etc then you need programs. You can use the program to trigger a scene rather than triggering individual devices. An example would be a scene for outdoor lights with a few members. A program would be needed to turn the scene on from sunset to sunrise. However, you could have a kpl button as a controller of the scene to turn it on directly with no program.
PurdueGuy Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 For a few devices, programs work fine. I have several scenes which affect nearly every light in the house (home, away, alarm, etc). For things like that, it would take far to long to accomplish with direct commands, and setting up the programs would be annoying too. Right now, I just have 1 scene called "All Lights" and use that where needed. I think I call it from about 5 different programs.
LeeG Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 "When the scene was turned on ("If sunset, Then, Turn Scene X"), one of the lamps wouldn't respond. " This usually means the Insteon network has some problems. Scenes run from the PLM are not ACKed so there is no retry. A Direct command can have multiple retries. It is best to clean up the Insteon network as these problems always surface again.
Bob P. Posted October 8, 2014 Author Posted October 8, 2014 Thanks for all the info. It seemed that the scenes were mainly an extra layer to deal with, but I can see how they have benefits.
stusviews Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Scenes are device links and do not require the ISY to process. Scenes do not require that the ISY even be turned on to run. Scenes actually eliminate a layer to deal with.
oberkc Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Another thing that I like about scenes is that I find them easier to deal with than programs as I make minor adjustements to my lighting environment over time and as my needs change. If I invoke scenes only as part of my program, then making the changes to scenes will automatically be captured without program changes.
apostolakisl Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Are scenes too fast sometimes? No, a scene is one command. When a device is programmed to be part of a scene, that device (along with potentially many others) then responds to that one command. For example, if a switch is set as a controller of a scene with 3 devices, when you turn the switch on, 2 things happen. 1) The switch turns itself on based on its "applied locally" settings (which may or may not be the same as it responds to a scene, this you define when programming the scenes and local settings of that switch) 2) it broadcasts a "scene <scene address> on" command. The other 2 devices "hear" that one command and do whatever you programmed them to do. Turning a scene on does not send multiple independent commands specific to each device. Edited October 8, 2014 by apostolakisl
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