smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have been trying to install a Door Sensor in my garage, and it will not link despite being only a few inches away from two dual-band Switchlincs, both of which are performing flawlessly. I am able to link the device near the PLM and near other dual-band devices just not these. If I link at another location and bring the door sensor to the desired location in the garage it does not work reliably--I believe it is trying to communicate with the device to which it was linked. and not with the nearby dual-band devices. After days messing with these sensors I consider them the worst Insteon hardware I have purchased. They are much worse than the OutletLinc! If you can help me sort this out or at least understand the problem, I would appreciate it. Link to comment
LeeG Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Linking any RF only device to the PLM, the PLM has no information about what devices the messages went through to get to/from the PLM. Once linked if there are comm issues where the Hidden Door Sensor is moved to it has to do with the environment in the new location. Insteon messages carry no information as to the devices the messages flow through. If the Hidden Door Sensor was linked to a Responder (not just a device that moved the messages) that link remains even if the Sensor is moved. If any comm to the PLM occurs use Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 to check the Hops Left count to see how good comm actually is. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Thanks, LeeG. When I relocated the sensor to the a location downstairs from the PLM I linked it to a ToggleLinc using the remove all links. When I moved it to the garage the link to the downstairs device remained. When I try to link it two one of the two dual-band devices in the garage it will not link. Both of those devices have been successfully linked for months. What I don't undertand is how the sensor cannot link to one of these devices using RF even at a distance of a few inches. Link to comment
LeeG Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The "remove all links" is an option when adding the Hidden Door Sensor to the ISY. No such option when adding the Togglelinc and Hidden Door Sensor to an ISY Scene. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Put the Hidden Door Sensor into linking mode. Add it and one of the switches to an ISY Scene and post the event trace. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 I am not adding the sensor to a scene I am trying to link it to the ISY via a dual-band device. Link to comment
Xathros Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I am not adding the sensor to a scene I am trying to link it to the ISY via a dual-band device. By this do you mean: You deleted the sensor from the ISY after adding it near the PLM and you are now trying to add the Door Sensor to the ISY with the sensor in proximity of a dual band device with confirmed good communication with the ISY? -Xathros Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 That is correct, Xathros. As to "confirmed good communication with the ISY" all I can say is that the dual-band devices in the garage have functioned perfectly for more that 2 years w/o ever having lost their link with the ISY. They are used in scenes and programs and are rock solid. Link to comment
LeeG Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The Hidden Door Sensor could not be added to the ISY before. That was the point of moving it to the PLM location. Why undo that, delete it from the ISY and try adding it from the garage where it has never worked. I do not understand why it was deleted before moving it back to the garage. Link to comment
Techman Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 smokegrub Do you have any fluorescent lights or CFL's in the garage that could be creating radio interference? Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 The Hidden Door Sensor could not be added to the ISY before. That was the point of moving it to the PLM location. Why undo that, delete it from the ISY and try adding it from the garage where it has never worked. I do not understand why it was deleted before moving it back to the garage. Perhaps my logic was flawed. I moved it because when I tyook it to the garage and tested it, it failed. I then tried linking it in the garage. When that failed I linked it inside the house and carried it back to the garage. It worked inconsistently there. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 smokegrub Do you have any fluorescent lights or CFL's in the garage that could be creating radio interference? Yes, there are fluorescent lights in the garage (5 banks of 2 bulbs each). Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 An easy test is to turn off the fluorescent lights and observe if communication from the door sensor improves. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Stusviews: That is what I just completed before returning to the forum. It still would not link. The message is to the effect that ihe ISY does not recognize the Insteon Engine. Link to comment
Techman Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Try turning off the lights then testing your device. It's possible that the ballasts in the lights are creating RF interference. Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Stusviews: That is what I just completed before returning to the forum. It still would not link. The message is to the effect that ihe ISY does not recognize the Insteon Engine. After you added the sensor from inside the house? Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 No, will do and try again. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Here is what happened. Whether the fluorescent lights are on or off, if I hold the sensor near the center of the door, placing it line of sight to the point where it was linked inside the house it functions properly. If I hold it against the door jamb where it will be located and not in line of sight, it does not work. At the latter location it is less than 3 feet from the 2 dual-band devices in the garage. In other words, if it is in a position where it apparently can communicate with the devices inside the house it is good to go. Thoughts? Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 It gets stranger all the time. I decided to test the device by holding in various locations along the jamb. At a point near the top of the jamb performance seems fine. If I position the device lower than about 18-inches fromj the top it does not work. I will do more testing before I drill a 3/4-inch hole in the jamb at any location. The only thing that I am aware of on the jamb side of the door is a sensor for the garage door opener. Link to comment
Xathros Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Metal door? Beat me to it! -Xath Link to comment
Techman Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 a fire door made out of dense material? are the two dual band switches located in metal boxes? Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 While I was testing, the door was open except for a full length glass storm door. I will close the metal door and see what happens. I don't think that much matters given that the signal should be sent when the door opens. Will see. Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The signal is sent. But metal, especially if it surrounds the sensor, inhibits RF propagation. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Final assessment for today. The sensor seems to work fine in the upper left portion of the jamb with the metal door open or closed and the fluorescent lights on or off. What I still do not understand is why the device will not communicate with the two dual band devices located less than 3 feet away but seems to communicate with a dual band device about 30 feet away and on the other side of 2 brick walls. I will contnue to test and report before drilling a 3/4-inch hole in the jamb. Link to comment
PurdueGuy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Could it be that the 2 good dual band devices have comm issues? I realize they work all the time, but they might not have any hops left. Capture a trace at level 3, and toggle both the good devices one at a time, and see how many hops are left. If zero hops are left, then they can't relay the message from the sensor. Link to comment
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