Motion sensor programming help

[chrishick]

I've tried everything and I can't figure out how to accomplish what I want to do.

 

This is what I have in the garage that works very well.

Motion sensor and switch linc in a scene. Works great because it comes on instantly.

The motion sensor is set to send on commands only.

Program 1 looks for motion and turns off light after 10 minutes with no motion.

Program 2 looks for on signal from switch and disables program 1 to override light and have stay on indefinitely.

Program 3 looks for off signal from switch, turns off light and re-enables program 1.

 

Now for what I can't figure out. I have another MS/light/switch combo by the pool. Right now there is no scene, only programs for control. There is a long delay from motion until the light comes on because it is being controlled by a program, not a scene.

 

If I make a scene I can't figure out how I can disable the motion. I want to be able to turn off the switch and have the light stay off until I turn the switch back on. I've tried adjusting the on levels in a scene with a program but can't get that to work.

 

Hopefully I didn't confuse the hell out of you. Any ideas on how to do this?

[stusviews]

Use a battery eliminator powered by an INSTEON device such as an On/Off Module (plug-in) or OutletLinc (wired).

[Xathros]

How about when the switch is turned off, have a program issue an adjust scene statement that sets the on level for the scene to 0%. You will need a second program to modify the on level for when you want the light to come on with motion.

 

 

-Xathros

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chrishick]

I've tried adjusting the on level but couldn't get it to work. Maybe I'll have to try again.

[chrishick]

I think I've figured it out. I was using

In scene "test" set on/off module 0% on level.

 

I didn't realize I could also do

In scene "motion sensor" set on/off module 0% on level.

 

I'm thinking this will work. Won't be home till Friday to test it though.

 

Fingers crossed. Thanks.

[larryllix]

How about when the switch is turned off, have a program issue an adjust scene statement that sets the on level for the scene to 0%. You will need a second program to modify the on level for when you want the light to come on with motion.

 

 

-Xathros

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have tried this in every way I can think of in my setup. I can't make it work.

 

When you adjust the local control brightness of a dimmer  with daily programs you are turning  the light on to that level at that time. Not acceptable usually.

 

When you set up a direct linked scene between two devices and adjust the brightness of a device in the ISY scene other devices directly linked do not trigger that scene in ISY.

 

With direct linked scenes ISY cannot intervene in brightness or ramp speed. ISY can only monitor.

 

I use a direct linked scene with one dimmer in my mudroom and the speed of response embarrasses the ISY program response speed.  I can use this in this location only,  as I do not have any need to control brightness, time of day, or ramp speed. I just let it activate during the day. Only time off delay can be adjusted by ISY but for 60 seconds of CFL on energy, a few times during the daylight hours, there is no point. The ballast triggering  is the wear out issue on CFLs and the damage is already done.

 

If this can be done some other way I would surely be interested.

[oberkc]

What is a "direct linked scene"? Are you creating scenes directly from the devices, themselves? For the ISY to work best, all scenes should be created through the ISY.

 

I expect xathros suggestion to be doable, but until we see your programs and scenes, generalities are all we have to discuss.

[larryllix]

What is a "direct linked scene"? Are you creating scenes directly from the devices, themselves? For the ISY to work best, all scenes should be created through the ISY.

 

I expect xathros suggestion to be doable, but until we see your programs and scenes, generalities are all we have to discuss.

Directly linked scenes are much faster but mostly out of ISY control, unfortunately.

[larryllix]

I've tried everything and I can't figure out how to accomplish what I want to do.

 

This is what I have in the garage that works very well.

Motion sensor and switch linc in a scene. Works great because it comes on instantly.

The motion sensor is set to send on commands only.

Program 1 looks for motion and turns off light after 10 minutes with no motion.

Program 2 looks for on signal from switch and disables program 1 to override light and have stay on indefinitely.

Program 3 looks for off signal from switch, turns off light and re-enables program 1.

 

Now for what I can't figure out. I have another MS/light/switch combo by the pool. Right now there is no scene, only programs for control. There is a long delay from motion until the light comes on because it is being controlled by a program, not a scene.

 

If I make a scene I can't figure out how I can disable the motion. I want to be able to turn off the switch and have the light stay off until I turn the switch back on. I've tried adjusting the on levels in a scene with a program but can't get that to work.

 

Hopefully I didn't confuse the hell out of you. Any ideas on how to do this?

Here is how I control my directly linked setup.

 

I used a long "just in case" timer for the manual control  lest people forget they turned it on at the switch. This happens frequently with automagically controlled lights.

Program 'MudRm Lights.auto'

 

If

        Control 'Mudroom / Motion.MudRm' is switched On

 

Then

        Wait  1 minute

        Set Scene 'Mudroom / MudRm Walkthrough' Fast Off

        Run Program 'MudRm Lights.auto' (Else Path)

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Program MudRm Lights.manual

 

If

        Control 'Mudroom / Mudroom Potlights' is switched On

    And Control 'Mudroom / Mudroom Potlights' is not switched Off

 

Then

        Disable Program 'MudRm Lights.auto'

        Set Scene 'Mudroom / MudRm Walkthrough' Fast On

        Wait  1 hour

        Run Program 'MudRm Lights.manual' (Else Path)

 

Else

        Set Scene 'Mudroom / MudRm Walkthrough' Fast Off

        Enable Program 'MudRm Lights.auto'

[Xathros]

I have tried this in every way I can think of in my setup. I can't make it work.

 

When you adjust the local control brightness of a dimmer  with daily programs you are turning  the light on to that level at that time. Not acceptable usually.

 

When you set up a direct linked scene between two devices and adjust the brightness of a device in the ISY scene other devices directly linked do not trigger that scene in ISY.

 

With direct linked scenes ISY cannot intervene in brightness or ramp speed. ISY can only monitor.

 

I use a direct linked scene with one dimmer in my mudroom and the speed of response embarrasses the ISY program response speed.  I can use this in this location only,  as I do not have any need to control brightness, time of day, or ramp speed. I just let it activate during the day. Only time off delay can be adjusted by ISY but for 60 seconds of CFL on energy, a few times during the daylight hours, there is no point. The ballast triggering  is the wear out issue on CFLs and the damage is already done.

 

If this can be done some other way I would surely be interested.

Larry-

 

As the OP did, you need to select the scene controller in the adjust scene statement (the motion sensor) and set the responder on levels to 0%

 

-Xathros

[larryllix]

Larry-

 

As the OP did, you need to select the scene controller in the adjust scene statement (the motion sensor) and set the responder on levels to 0%

 

-Xathros

I have tried that and you cannot affect a scene directly linked outside of ISY. When you turn the scene on from inside ISY the scene brightness works but when the MS activates the direct scene link the ISY settings have no effect.

 

I use the scene adjust technique for non-direct linked scenes (ISY control) and they work somewhat but not for directly linked scenes.

[Xathros]

Larry-

 

If the scene was defined outside if the ISY this is quite true as the ISY has no idea of the link records.  If however, you were to reset the devices and re-add them to the ISY and define your scene using the ISY, then you DO have the ability to do this.  In general it is recommended that you don't do "Set Button Linking" outside of the ISY.

 

What we are trying to do here is update a responder link record to set an on level of 0 at certain times.  The MS still fires and activates the scene.  Only the scene OnLevel is 0 so in effect the lights stay off.  Downside - if the lights are turned on manually, motion will turn them off.  Kind of a narrow use case but it fit the OP's need.

 

-Xathros

[oberkc]

The only difference that I understand between direct linked devices and those created by the ISY would be the presence of the PLM in the device link records. If you have a device that was otherwise added to the ISY, I cannot imagine why a scene that was later created directly would be any faster. If you noticea difference in scene responses, I would dig a little deeper into that problem.

 

Something strange is going on here beyond the scene creation mechanics, in my estimation. Like the others, I find it bad practice to have scenes created outside the ISY.

[Xathros]

I suspect what Larry is getting at here is that using a scene with the MS as a controller is faster than triggering with a program.  If that is the case then I 100% agree.  I'm just unsure of what exactly he means by "Direct Link".

 

-Xathros

[larryllix]

A "direct link" is a link created directly between the MS and the SwitchLinc. This can be done directly between the devices or using an ISY scene  and writing the links into the devices. The devices then talk "directly" between themselves without any ISY intervention.  ISY can not adjust any settings in this "direct link", from my testing experiences.

 

This "direct link" between a MS and a SwitchLinc or other device reacts almost instantaneously. The eye has a hard time discerning any delay, unlike communicating the MS signal to the ISY and then ISY triggering a scene to be communicated out to the SwitchLinc. Insteon links were designed to work without any controller and be very fast, after the slow X10 protocol it was built on.

 

 

This "Direct link" is what the OP appears to want but to control the parameters with the ISY. You can't, from my experiences.

[Xathros]

A "direct link" is a link created directly between the MS and the SwitchLinc. This can be done directly between the devices or using an ISY scene  and writing the links into the devices. The devices then talk "directly" between themselves without any ISY intervention.  ISY can not adjust any settings in this "direct link", from my testing experiences.

 

Yes.  If the scene was created by the ISY and the devices are known to the ISY, then an Adjust scene statement can certainly modify the scene properties.  I do this twice a day for many of my scenes.

 

This "direct link" between a MS and a SwitchLinc or other device reacts almost instantaneously. The eye has a hard time discerning any delay, unlike communicating the MS signal to the ISY and then ISY triggering a scene to be communicated out to the SwitchLinc. Insteon links were designed to work without any controller and be very fast, after the slow X10 protocol it was built on.

 

Agreed.

 

 

This "Direct link" is what the OP appears to want but to control the parameters with the ISY. You can't, from my experiences.

 

As I said above, This can be done using the ISY.  The Adjust scene statement is tricky however as you need to ensure you have the right controller selected when specifying the responder's OnLevel or Ramp Rate.

 

Larry-

 

Responses in BLUE above.

 

-Xathros

[oberkc]

Xathros...do you have any experience changing properties of a scene specifically including a battery powered device? I was wondering if the motion sensor need be put into linking mode for the changes to take effect.

[Xathros]

Luckily, the ramp rate and On level are in the responder link records - not the controller link record.  No changes necessary to the MS only the target responder.

 

If I get some free time this evening, I'm going to build a test setup of this scenario to document and screenshot.  I don't have the necessary parts at the office to test with.

 

 

 

-Xathros

[chrishick]

Seems there are other having some questions also. Very Confusing, but I think I've got it now.

 

Downside - if the lights are turned on manually, motion will turn them off.

Couldn't this be controlled programmaticly? If the lights are turned on manually then adjust scene level back to 100%?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[chrishick]

I have another question. I notice a lot of people are ending a then statement with a call to run the empty else statement of the same program.

 

Program 'program 1'

 

If

 

Xxxxxxx

 

Then

 

Xxxxxxxx

Xxxxxxxx

Run Program 'program 1' (Else Path)

 

Else

 

-No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

What is the reason for this?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

"What is the reason for this?"

 

I might do that from time-to-time if I were using the TRUE or FALSE status of that program as a condition of another program. For example, if I wanted a program to be true only while executing a THEN clause, then turn false immediate after completion of the THEN clause. Then I could use the status of that program to know whether it was currently executing.

[LeeG]

Can you post a link to some examples.   It sounds more like a finger check than a functional reason.  It would set the program status to False 

[larryllix]

I have another question. I notice a lot of people are ending a then statement with a call to run the empty else statement of the same program.

 

Program 'program 1'

 

If

 

Xxxxxxx

 

Then

 

Xxxxxxxx

Xxxxxxxx

Run Program 'program 1' (Else Path)

 

Else

 

-No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

What is the reason for this?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Several reasons I use it

- The folder colours indicate the program "Then" or "Else" last ran for debugging

- I can see the status of things in MobiLinc on my cell phone since it cannot display variables 

- Other programs can see the status of the program in question although I don't think I ever use that feature.

[larryllix]

Using ISY scenes

 

I installed a new SwitchLinc last night to do more testing. I used an existing MS for this.

 

Here is what I found with this SW and MS combination.

 

Before any ISY scene was created = SW contained two links to the PLM

Create an ISY scene with just the SW = SW contains three links to PLM

Add the MS to the ISY scene = SW contains three links to PLM and one direct link to MS

Note: MS has to be put into linking mode at which time ISY writes the direct link to the SW into it. Until then the MS is marked as bad-comm.

 

- In effect ISY has created a direct link between the two devices and now has no ISY control over any part of that scene now existing outside of ISY.

- ISY can now control parameters of it's own scene and when the scene is activated the brightness levels and ramp speeds will be effective but only when initiated by the ISY programs or manual operation.

- The MS and SW now have their own link and that operation cannot be affected by the ISY scene settings.

- This does not seem to be the intended purpose for an ISY scene to have a controller device included in ISY scenes. They appear to serve no purpose, and may be a detriment to intended operations, cutting the ISY control out of the picture.

 

BTW: Removing a device from an ISY scene and/or deleting the whole scene does not remove the direct links from the devices (despite writing to device indications in the Admin Console) . A restore must be done on each device to remove the scene links to ISY or the direct links between devices after deleting/removing the devices from the ISY scene.

[Xathros]

Seems there are other having some questions also. Very Confusing, but I think I've got it now.

 

 

Couldn't this be controlled programmaticly? If the lights are turned on manually then adjust scene level back to 100%?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes.  You could.  Just another aspect to consider though.

 

-Xathros