JWBDolphins Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this question, but I think if anyone will know the answer to this it is here. Also, I'm not an electrical engineer so my terms may not be quite right. I'm looking at buying a FanLinc module and have a couple questions. My first question is how does the FanLinc module power the different fan speeds, with variable voltage or full voltage pulses? This question comes from electric trains where originally the speed control was a rheostat and as the voltage increased, the motor ran faster and the train speed increased. Then DCC came along where the train motor was hit with pulses of full voltage and then no voltage to vary the speed. So for instance, at Low Speed the motor would receive ON OFF OFF ON OFF OFF, etc. Medium Speed you could have ON OFF ON OFF, and High Speed would simply be full ON. My understanding is that it is a lot easier on a motor to be powered this way than it is to run a motor with variable voltage. I also believe this might reduce heat buildup. My current fan control is a 4 position (including Off) rheostat so I know the fan speeds change by varying the voltage. I Assume the FanLinc works this way too and the FanLinc module looks to have a lot of vent holes in it. Does anyone know if this is how the FanLinc works? Secondly, the "Low", "Medium", and "High" settings in the FanLinc - are these User Configurable? As in "Slow can by 10% or maybe 25%, Medium 50%, 60%, 67%, and High say 75% or 100%" or are the 3 speeds fixed values? My thought here is if the FanLinc uses the "pulse" method, then you could probably end up with a wide range of user settable speeds without a lot of worry about frying the fan's motor.
stusviews Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Rheostats have not been in use as a motor controller for quite a few years. How did you determine that your speed control is a rheostat? Is the speed control part of the fan (i.e, in the canopy) or external? The method used by the FanLinc is not user adjustable.
JWBDolphins Posted November 27, 2014 Author Posted November 27, 2014 The FanLinc speeds are not user settable - that's what I figured, thanks! It's a Hunter fan that's nearly 20 years old and the same for the in-wall Hunter speed control so I'm Assuming the speed control is a rheostat. I installed them both so I know there are just the 2 hot wires running from the wall to the ceiling, one for the light and one for the fan motor. I set the pull-chain speed on the fan itself to High and then use the rotating speed control in the wall to vary its speed. The Hunter speed control is a big black box and the instructions say to turn it all the way to High to get the fan going and then back it down if you want a slower speed, so that makes me think it's a rheostat of some sort. I don't know if they even make "pulsing" (for lack of a better term) speed controls or not but I also don't really know what kind of speed control this is, but I'm guessing it's a rheostat. Regardless, I think the FanLinc should do what I want and I have the advantage too that I can mount it in the wall and not have to open the fan itself. Thanks for the fast reply!
stusviews Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 The Fanlinc fits in the fan canopy. It's way to big to fit in a switch box. You will also need a controller such as KeypadLinc. If, "there are just the 2 hot wires running from the wall to the ceiling, one for the light and one for the fan motor," then you most likely have a 3-wire cable with line (hot, usually white) and two load wires. There is not a neutral wire in the box. That's easily fixed.
JWBDolphins Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 I didn't say that right - there's a 4 conductor wire running from the wall to the fan: ground, neutral, and 2 loads. One gang in the wall has a switch to the fan light that I'll remove, the second gang has the fan speed control which I'll replace with a KeypadLinc. The wall box is actually a 3 gang box where the third switch goes to a receptacle that isn't in use, so I might just remove that switch also. I read somewhere that someone had placed the FanLinc in an empty gang in the wall, and since all the wires that are in the canopy are there in the wall box, the plan is to see if I can actually fit the FanLinc in the wall. If that doesn't work out then I'll just put it up in the canopy. All of this, of course, has to first receive spousal approval! This just leaves the question of how does the FanLinc vary the speeds, via voltage change or some kind of full on/off "pulsing"? And this is Strictly a Curiosity question too - the pieces/parts have been ordered and I'm anxious to get this all going!
Brian H Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 If you are interested in seeing what the inside photos of the 2475F looks like. Along with the external photos and test results. It is in the FCC Database. http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/ Grantee :SBP Product Code: 2475F Details choice. You can find many other Dual Band Insteon devices in the same database. Only a theory here. As I have seen no concrete information on this. It has what looks like four triacs in it and a few large capacitors. I think they are switching different capacitors into the fan speed circuit and one triac maybe for light control.
stusviews Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Neither the fan nor the light can be controlled with one neutral and two load wires. One wire connected to each switch (light, fan) must be line. Describe all the wires connected to the switches in question and what each of the three wires (black, red, white) is connected to. Disregard any ground wires. (Ground wires are not considered conductors). The FanLinc will fit in a 3-gang box only if nothing else is installed in that box.
JWBDolphins Posted December 1, 2014 Author Posted December 1, 2014 Brian H - Thanks for the link, your theory sounds good to me! Stusviews - Thanks for the info and taking the time. There are enough wires present to locate the FanLinc in either the wall or the canopy, but I'm not explaining that very well. I'm only entertaining trying to put the FanLinc in the wall based on someone saying they had done this and because its easier than dropping the fan - my wall box is fairly deep so I'll see if I'm able to place it there or not. Just to make sure I'm not missing something, let me quickly go through the wiring and how I would wire both the wall box and the canopy depending on where the FanLinc will fit. I'll ignore the ground as mentioned. The wires: From the Breaker Box to the Wall are 2 wires - White/Neutral and Black/Line/Hot. From the Wall to the Ceiling are 3 wires - White/Neutral, Black/(what I maybe incorrectly called Load)/Hot, and Red/Load?/Hot. Current setup: The Breaker White and the Ceiling White are connected and continues at the canopy into the ceiling fan's White. The Breaker Black connects in the Wall to Both the Light Switch and to the Speed Control. The Light Switch is connected to the Ceiling Red which is wired in the canopy to the fan's light. The Speed Control is connected to the Ceiling Black which is wired in the canopy to the fan's motor. First, for either FanLinc location, I would wire a KPL in the Wall to the Breaker White and the Breaker Black and cap off the KPL's Red. (I currently have 1 KPL installed and running in a different room.) To place the FanLinc in the Wall: Connect the Breaker Black to the FanLinc Black. Connect the Breaker White, the FanLinc White, and the Ceiling White together. Connect the FanLinc Blue to the Ceiling Red for the fan light (since the fan light is where the Ceiling Red is currently connected). Connect the FanLinc Red to the Ceiling Black for the fan motor. To place the FanLinc in the Canopy: In the Wall: Keep the Breaker White and the Ceiling White connected. Connect the Breaker Black to the Ceiling Black. Cap off both ends (don't use) the Red running from the Wall to the Ceiling. In the Canopy: Connect the FanLinc White to the Wall White and to the ceiling fan's White. Connect the FanLinc Black to the Wall Black. Connect the FanLinc Red to the fan motor.Connect the FanLinc Blue to the fan light. Thanks for your time and please let me know if I'm doing something wrong here.
stusviews Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 The wiring you described for placing the Fanlinc in either the wall box or the canopy is correct. If you want to install the FanLinc in a wall box and also have a KeypadLinc in the same box, then you'll need at least a 4-gang box. See post #7. BTW, each the red wire and the black wire going to ceiling box are load wires.
JWBDolphins Posted December 1, 2014 Author Posted December 1, 2014 Great, thanks for verifying! This should arrive in the next week or so. I think you're right about not fitting in the wall - I remain hopefully but not optimistic!
stusviews Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 Enjoy. BTW, we have one fan with a canopy that's too small to house the FanLinc.
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