GaryK4 Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 I am considering installing a number of powered air ducts like SUNCOURT ZC108 ITEM #: 307109C The SmartHome details say you need to connect the supplied transformer to an ApplianceLinc and use a SwitchLinc to control it. Why is the ApplianceLinc needed? Can't the transformer just be plugged into an outlet?
Teken Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Because you need a method to turn the power on / off. You could also use the newest dual outlet Linc instead which avoids the wall wart look. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
paulbates Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Gary, To add to Tekens comments, you need a way to open and close it. The appliancelinc will be the easiest and cheapest way to do this. When the appliancelinc is turned on, it will add power to close the duct. The duct will spring back to open when the appliancelinc is turned off. You will need to have a switch, or some kind of logic, to say when you want it open or closed. How do you plan to control it, with a switch or keypadlinc? Paul
GaryK4 Posted November 27, 2014 Author Posted November 27, 2014 I guess that I just get it. Doesn't the transformer supply the power and all you need is a switch to turn it on / off which is what a SwitchLinc does. This works for my garage door without any ApplianceLinc.
Teken Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) I guess that I just get it. Doesn't the transformer supply the power and all you need is a switch to turn it on / off which is what a SwitchLinc does. This works for my garage door without any ApplianceLinc. Hello Gary, My apologies I had assumed the switch was on another circuit from the outlet. If the outlet is controlled via the switch you have now. You can definitely forgo the other device. Please kindly note you must only use a Switch Linc Relay or KPL Relay. Edited November 27, 2014 by Teken
GaryK4 Posted November 27, 2014 Author Posted November 27, 2014 Hello Gary, My apologies I had assumed the switch was on another circuit from the outlet. If the outlet is controlled via the switch you have now. You can definitely forgo the other device. Please kindly note you must only use a Switch Linc Relay or KPL Relay. No, I am just not doing a good job of explaining. I am not an electrician. http://www.smarthome.com/suncourt-zc106-6-inch-diameter-normally-closed-electronic-hvac-air-duct-damper-with-power-supply.html See the wiring instructions. I would plug the supplied transformer into a 110 outlet. I would use an I/O Linc 2450 to act as the switch referenced in the diagram. This seems like it would work to me unless the I/O Linc could not handle the current. If it is a current problem, then I understand. I/O Linc - 5A @ 30 Volts (AC or DC) Transformer - 24V AC .25 amps Hope that helps.
Teken Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) Hello Gary, How about we keep this simple and perhaps a solution can be found. Before I offer anymore advise, how about you explain where you intend to install this device and what power, switches, and receptacles are present. 1. Is there a local switch present that can control the power to a outlet? If yes, then all you need is to plug in the transformer which will power the HVAC duct. 2. If the answer is no, there is not a switch that controls a outlet. You have several choices and that is to either use a appliance linc, dual outlet linc, I/O linc. The I/O linc is only being used to power the OEM transformer. Some would prefer to use a 24 VAC plugin transformer. 3. Is there a outlet where the HVAC duct is going to be? If you're going to be installing a brand new outlet because local power is not present. Again, you can use the first suggestion which is install a normal outlet, purchase a plug in 24 VAC transformer, and have the KPL / Switch Linc relay turn that outlet on or off. Please describe your environment and the power availability. Some Options based on your possible set up: 1. Switch controls outlet: All you need is either a Switch Linc / KPL Relay. 2. Switch does not control outlet: You can purchase a switch Linc / KPL Relay -> Install either a Dual outlet linc, On/Off Module, Micro On/Off Module, I/O Linc. Edited November 27, 2014 by Teken
stusviews Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Any air duct damper is usually powered on 24/7. Position (open or closed) is handled by the HVAC panel which receives instructions from the thermostat. Power to the damper is also supplied from the panel. If the HVAC system is calling for heating or cooling, then the damper opens, otherwise it closes. A damper with a separate power supply,such as the one you referred to, can be closed independently of the HVAC panel by turning off power to the power supply. You can use any method available that turns power off, even a standard wired switch.
Brian H Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Looking at the wiring instructions. One thing you may have missed. The supplied transformer is made to be mounted in a knockout hole. On an electrical box . So you would have to splice a power cord onto the wire pigtails. If you want to plug it into an outlet.
stusviews Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Splicing a power cord is not in compliance with the electrical code if the power supply is installed in a ceiling crawl space. In that case, mount the supply to a box that contains a Micro On/Off Module.
Teken Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) Right now it comes down to knowing what electrical power source is available and if there is local control. If there isn't and he is going to run wires any ways. The cheapest and most effective method is to install a KPL / Switch Linc, that will control a outlet, which is then controlling a plug in 24 VAC transformer. If the OP doesn't want to purchase anymore parts (plug in transformer) and just use what is included in the kit. Then the most reasonable choice would be a linked I/O Linc, which is attached the OEM transformer to control the HVAC duct. I have to assume he wants manual control over using a TSTAT. Edited November 27, 2014 by Teken
stusviews Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 I have to assume he wants manual control over using a TSTAT. To what end? There's no use in opening the damper if heating or cooling is not requested or the fan is not running.
Teken Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 To what end? There's no use in opening the damper if heating or cooling is not requested or the fan is not running. Well, I guess that is something the OP will need to share if he wants. This also assumes he is going to use a N.O vs a N.C HVAC duct. There may be some use cases like a infrequent room that is occupied that he wants to always be closed. Thus, when he feels the need he simply clicks the switch and opens the vent so he can enjoy the pool table, sun room, what ever, smoke a joint,
io_guy Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 I have 8 of these dampers. Instead of using 8 transformers I bought one big one and run 18awg wire to each unit. I control then through a relay on an EZIO8SA. An IOLinc woulud work just as good.
stusviews Posted November 27, 2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Manipulating the damper has no effect if there's no air flowing through the duct. That's a decision made by the thermostat. So, an I/O Linc can be used to interrupt the low voltage side, but there's still no use for control independent of the thermostat
GaryK4 Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 Hello Gary, How about we keep this simple and perhaps a solution can be found. Before I offer anymore advise, how about you explain where you intend to install this device and what power, switches, and receptacles are present. 1. Is there a local switch present that can control the power to a outlet? If yes, then all you need is to plug in the transformer which will power the HVAC duct. 2. If the answer is no, there is not a switch that controls a outlet. You have several choices and that is to either use a appliance linc, dual outlet linc, I/O linc. The I/O linc is only being used to power the OEM transformer. Some would prefer to use a 24 VAC plugin transformer. 3. Is there a outlet where the HVAC duct is going to be? If you're going to be installing a brand new outlet because local power is not present. Again, you can use the first suggestion which is install a normal outlet, purchase a plug in 24 VAC transformer, and have the KPL / Switch Linc relay turn that outlet on or off. Please describe your environment and the power availability. Some Options based on your possible set up: 1. Switch controls outlet: All you need is either a Switch Linc / KPL Relay. 2. Switch does not control outlet: You can purchase a switch Linc / KPL Relay -> Install either a Dual outlet linc, On/Off Module, Micro On/Off Module, I/O Linc. Sorry I did not get back sooner. Thanksgiving My upstairs consists of (4) rooms. One bedroom converted to a computer room with many devices and a large heat load. A bonus room converted to a media center (over the garage). typically this is only used 7:00PM - 10:00PM A bedroom and a bathroom. A already added another duct and manual damper to the computer room which has helped at lot. I spend a lot of time in that room. My goal is to balance the temp better between rooms, knowing that will only help when the HVAC is pumping out air. I have been an engineer all my life and I approach projects is small bites. After the damper phase, I will look at temp sensors and possibly duct fans. I am retired and just got the ISY, so this is probably more of a hobby project rather than a big problem that needs solving. My son-in-law is an electrician, so if I need another outlet added he can do that for me. So at the moment, I am not worried about power outlets. Hope that explains my goal. Back to my original question: Most responders keep powering the transformer on and off. I don't see this in the wiring instructions. io_guy (message) uses one transformer to control ( dampers. I don't think powering the transformer on/off would work for him. This may be a good method for me and allows for future expansion. You did not respond to my simple play as to if it would work or not. As per the wiring instructions: I would plug the supplied transformer into a 110 outlet. I would use an I/O Linc 2450 to act as the switch referenced in the diagram.
GaryK4 Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) I have 8 of these dampers. Instead of using 8 transformers I bought one big one and run 18awg wire to each unit. I control then through a relay on an EZIO8SA. An IOLinc woulud work just as good. io_guy, I like what you did here and may do mine the same way. A couple of questions: I assume that the transformer is always powered on. Correct? You use the EZIO8SA to open and close connections between the transformer and each duct. Correct? You do not have an ApplianceLinc anywhere in the circuit. Correct? What are the specs and/or model of the transformer that you use. Thanks, Also, I just looked at 8-Zone sprinkler controller (Item: 31270) The outputs are ( 24V AC, 400MA. The dampers consume .25 amps (250MA). This could be an easier installation. Thoughts? Edited November 28, 2014 by GaryK4
Teken Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Sorry I did not get back sooner. Thanksgiving My upstairs consists of (4) rooms. One bedroom converted to a computer room with many devices and a large heat load. A bonus room converted to a media center (over the garage). typically this is only used 7:00PM - 10:00PM A bedroom and a bathroom. A already added another duct and manual damper to the computer room which has helped at lot. I spend a lot of time in that room. My goal is to balance the temp better between rooms, knowing that will only help when the HVAC is pumping out air. I have been an engineer all my life and I approach projects is small bites. After the damper phase, I will look at temp sensors and possibly duct fans. I am retired and just got the ISY, so this is probably more of a hobby project rather than a big problem that needs solving. My son-in-law is an electrician, so if I need another outlet added he can do that for me. So at the moment, I am not worried about power outlets. Hope that explains my goal. Back to my original question: Most responders keep powering the transformer on and off. I don't see this in the wiring instructions. io_guy (message) uses one transformer to control ( dampers. I don't think powering the transformer on/off would work for him. This may be a good method for me and allows for future expansion. You did not respond to my simple play as to if it would work or not. As per the wiring instructions: I would plug the supplied transformer into a 110 outlet. I would use an I/O Linc 2450 to act as the switch referenced in the diagram. You would only use the I/O link if you planned to use the factory transformer. Obviously, the I/O link would then be plugged into a outlet from there. Which HVAC duct are you planning to use NO vs NC? Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
GaryK4 Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 You would only use the I/O link if you planned to use the factory transformer. Obviously, the I/O link would then be plugged into a outlet from there. Which HVAC duct are you planning to use NO vs NC? Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Yes, that is the plan. See my response to io_guy. I may go in that direction. I am planning on using a NO duct.
Teken Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Yes, that is the plan. See my response to io_guy. I may go in that direction. I am planning on using a NO duct. That would be the most effective solution while offering the best value for a zoned system. Question, is the current HVAC system as it is not able to keep the home comfortable? Or is this just a personal method to tailor the rooms environment on demand? Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
GaryK4 Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 That would be the most effective solution while offering the best value for a zoned system. Question, is the current HVAC system as it is not able to keep the home comfortable? Or is this just a personal method to tailor the rooms environment on demand? Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions The computer room can get exceed 80 degrees, but usually high 70's. The bonus / media room tends to run cold. I don't remember the if hot or cold in the summer. Bedroom and bathroom is fine as is. So this would be a tweak and tailor the demand. The tailor would be for the media room only.
Teken Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 The computer room can get exceed 80 degrees, but usually high 70's. The bonus / media room tends to run cold. I don't remember the if hot or cold in the summer. Bedroom and bathroom is fine as is. So this would be a tweak and tailor the demand. The tailor would be for the media room only. I think you're in good shape moving forward. Please do document the install and take lots of photos. I am sure others will find this information valuable when doing the same. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
stusviews Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 An I/O Linc cannot be used to control power to the transformer. It can be used to switch power between the transformer and the damper motor.
GaryK4 Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 An I/O Linc cannot be used to control power to the transformer. It can be used to switch power between the transformer and the damper motor. Yes. That is what the wiring instructions call for.
io_guy Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 io_guy, I like what you did here and may do mine the same way. A couple of questions: I assume that the transformer is always powered on. Correct? You use the EZIO8SA to open and close connections between the transformer and each duct. Correct? You do not have an ApplianceLinc anywhere in the circuit. Correct? What are the specs and/or model of the transformer that you use. Thanks, Also, I just looked at 8-Zone sprinkler controller (Item: 31270) The outputs are ( 24V AC, 400MA. The dampers consume .25 amps (250MA). This could be an easier installation. Thoughts? - Transformer is always powered, close the 24VAC connect to the duct - No ApplianceLinc - I use this because I had a need for 12 VDC as well and wanted an enclosure http://www.seco-larm.com/CCTVPSACDC_C.htm - Sprinkler controller won't work - they only allow one zone to be on at a given time
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