Insteon Leak Sensor 2852-222 Review

[Teken]

I have referenced it above in the write up.

 

 

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[Techman]

I have referenced it above in the write up.

 

 

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Before I add the sensors to a program I want to find out how they behave. At this point my only concern is the heartbeat, which seems to only sends an off command every 24 hours.  Do you have any of the latest firmware/hardware sensors installed, if so could you tap the set button and let me know what shows up in your log.

[LeeG]

The Heartbeat message is sent once ever 24 hours under normal operating conditions (not tapping Set button).  It will send an Off or On command based on the Wet/Dry condition of the Leak Sensor at the time the Heartbeat message is sent.  

[Techman]

Thank you, I guess I'm good to go.

[Techman]

LeeG

 

I'm still have issues with the leak sensors. Seems no heartbeat is being sent. I've done factory resets and the sensor is 5 feet from the PLM. I noticed in the log that after pressing the set button the Hops Left is 3. Why am I not seeing any of the hops decrement.  The wet and dry nodes change in the ISY upon the set button press and/or when I wet the sensor so I know the comm is good. 

 

 

 

Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 31.C4.2F 00.00.01 CF 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [std-Group   ] 31.C4.2F-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [31 C4 2F 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [  31 C4 2F 1]      DON   1
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 31.C4.2F 00.00.01 CF 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [std-Group   ] 31.C4.2F-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 31.C4.2F 2F.B9.FB 45 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 31.C4.2F-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 31.C4.2F 11.01.01 CF 06 00           (00)
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:31 PM : [std-Group   ] 31.C4.2F-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:32 PM : [iNST-INFO   ] Previous message ignored.
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:32 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 31.C4.2F 11.01.01 CF 06 00           (00)
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:32 PM : [std-Group   ] 31.C4.2F-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Fri 12/26/2014 06:57:32 PM : [iNST-INFO   ] Previous message ignored.
 

[LeeG]

The Hops Left=3 is something new with the evolution of the PLM firmware to resolve the All On problem.   I ordered a new PLM expecting to get the latest PLM firmware.  Instead, while some others were getting the later firmware, Smarthome sent me the v.9B level which I already had a few.  I'm not happy with Smarthome at the moment.      

 

Bottom line is I do not know the Hops Left pattern of the later PLM firmware.

 

I don't know what has happened with the Heartbeat message.  On my v.3E Leak Sensor a single Set button press alternates between a Dry On and a Wet On with the Heartbeat messages coming approx 15 seconds later without an addition Set button press. I would expect to see an additional message sequence for Heartbeat later in time in the event viewer trace.   Since there is nothing posted after the Dry On messages either the Heartbeat is no longer being issued or not enough time passed to see the Heartbeat messages.

[Techman]

It would be nice if Smarthome posted release notes along with their hardware and firmware updates. If the hops doesn't change how are we to know what's going on unless it only decrements if more than two hops are used.

 

There is no heartbeat entry in the ISY log after a press of the set button yet I have good communication so at this point I have no idea what to expect. Guess I'll give Smarthome a call on Monday.

 

UPDATE: I just noticed another anomaly. When I place the sensor in water the ISY shows the wet node on yet there is no log entry showing the wet node as having been on.  When I tap the set button to re-set the sensor I get a log entry showing wet as off and dry as on.

 

If anyone has the 3914  Rev 2.3, firmware .43, could you please take a look at your log and let me know if you get the same results.

[LeeG]

Unfortunately the ISY Log is probably not helpful.  The Log only shows changes.  I do get the heartbeat messages but they are not reflected in the Log as the heartbeat is always On because the leak Sensor is Dry On.

 

RL2-8 - C Status 100% Fri 2014/12/26 10:25:38 PM System Log

0D.4B.82.1 Status 100% Fri 2014/12/26 10:25:38 PM System Log

RL2-8 - C Status 0% Fri 2014/12/26 11:16:50 PM System Log

0D.4B.82.1 Status 0% Fri 2014/12/26 11:16:50 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry / Leak Sensor-Wet Status 100% Fri 2014/12/26 11:54:51 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry Status 0% Fri 2014/12/26 11:54:51 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry Status 100% Fri 2014/12/26 11:55:08 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry / Leak Sensor-Wet Status 0% Fri 2014/12/26 11:55:08 PM System Log

[Techman]

The log should have shown the wet state of the sensor as it changed from dry to wet

[LeeG]

The Log should show a change in Wet status as well as change in Dry status

 

0D.4B.82.1 Status 0% Fri 2014/12/26 11:16:50 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry / Leak Sensor-Wet Status 100% Fri 2014/12/26 11:54:51 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry Status 0% Fri 2014/12/26 11:54:51 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry Status 100% Fri 2014/12/26 11:55:08 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry / Leak Sensor-Wet Status 0% Fri 2014/12/26 11:55:08 PM System Log

[Techman]

The log showed the correct entries this morning. My water heater leak sensor is next to my furnace, I think I may be getting some interference. I'm going to add a dual band module in the furnace closet to see if that helps even though I have a dual band switch about 10 feet away.

[Techman]

I just noticed that there's no log entries for the heartbeat node. This is with the recent firmware release, 3914  Rev 2.3, firmware .43.

 

Could someone who's using the latest firmware please check their log and let me know if they have heartbeat entries. Thank you.

[LeeG]

Running 4.2.21 since released - Leak Sensor is v.3E

 

2491T - Main Status 23° Tue 2014/12/30 03:32:43 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry / Leak Sensor-Heartbeat Status 100% Tue 2014/12/30 04:49:41 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry Status 100% Tue 2014/12/30 04:49:41 PM System Log

Leak Sensor-Dry / Leak Sensor-Wet Status 0% Tue 2014/12/30 04:49:41 PM System Log

SwitchLinc Dimmer DB On Level 30% Tue 2014/12/30 05:42:00 PM System Log

SwitchLinc Dimmer DB On Level 100% Tue 2014/12/30 05:47:01 PM System Log

RL2-8 - C Status 100% Tue 2014/12/30 06:37:38 PM System Log

 

If running ISY without a reboot for sometime and the Leak Sensor has been Dry for some time, the HeartBeat state would not be changing so nothing would be in the Log 

[Techman]

Thanks LeeG

 

I think there may be an issue with the current hardware/firmware and the ISY as I don't have any heartbeat log entries for the leak sensors.  I just installed the sensors within the last week.  ISY is 4.2.18

[stusviews]

I've only received a report when the heartbeat was missed or a leak was detected.

[Techman]

Do you show any log entries related to a heartbeat or when the wet node is on?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Techman,

 

As LeeG suggested you are not going to see anything in the logs since the state does not change. The only way to trap these events is using a program.

 

With kind regards,

 

Michel

[Techman]

Thank you and Happy New Year.

[rabbit1543]

I noticed an issue with the current leak sensor program if you have leak sensors that require they are reset after a wet condition. Over the past couple of days  i ran a simple test. I reset one of my sensors and then did a wet test. I did not leave the sensor in water, this is to simulate a leak that would have dried up. I got this initial leak detection email, then At 6pm i got the followup email indicating there was a problem. I expected to get a 2nd followup email at 9am but it never came through. I checked the variable for the sensor and it was set back to 1, all while the WET node remains ON. I ran this test twice over 2 days and yielded the same results. The variable was reset back to 1 roughly the same time both days. What i believe is happening is that the heartbeat is being sent thus resetting the variable. Im not quite sure what the workaround for this would be programming wise but i wanted to throw this out there since there are behavioral differences in sensors depending on the firmware. Other than this issue the programming provided on leak detection seems to be top notch. So while this programming is working mostly as expected you will only get one followup email opposed to twice per day.

[Teken]

I noticed an issue with the current leak sensor program if you have leak sensors that require they are reset after a wet condition. Over the past couple of days i ran a simple test. I reset one of my sensors and then did a wet test. I did not leave the sensor in water, this is to simulate a leak that would have dried up. I got this initial leak detection email, then At 6pm i got the followup email indicating there was a problem. I expected to get a 2nd followup email at 9am but it never came through. I checked the variable for the sensor and it was set back to 1, all while the WET node remains ON. I ran this test twice over 2 days and yielded the same results. The variable was reset back to 1 roughly the same time both days. What i believe is happening is that the heartbeat is being sent thus resetting the variable. Im not quite sure what the workaround for this would be programming wise but i wanted to throw this out there since there are behavioral differences in sensors depending on the firmware. Other than this issue the programming provided on leak detection seems to be top notch. So while this programming is working mostly as expected you will only get one followup email opposed to twice per day.

I had to read your reply a few times so please forgive the ask.

 

If you perform this same test prior to 9:00 AM what are the results! I ask because I would not expect a follow up at 9:00 AM the (NEXT DAY) indicating it was wet when in fact it was dry.

 

But would expect, and have seen at least four e-mails when I did the same test outlined above.

 

Ie. Started test at 7:00 AM, received two alert notifications immediately. Left sensor to dry and at 9:00 AM received a scheduled update indicating a wet condition. Checking the sensor at 12:00 PM showed the feet were dry. ISY shows a wet node which is correct because it must be manually changed. I left it alone and waited for the 6:00 PM update which clearly shows a ALL GOOD (1) state.

 

But the ISY shows a wet node (this is expected) as it needs to be updated manually for those using the latest hardware Rev.

 

Clear as mud? ️

 

 

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[rabbit1543]

Teken,

 

I have performed my tests mid day. I can try to do one prior to 9am. For the sensor im testing im noticing that the heartbeat seems to be sent around 8:50am. If i were to run a test at 7am i would expect the leak detection email. (this has been flawless) I would not expect to receive any problem emails assuming that the heartbeat is sent at 8:50 like it has been thus resetting the variable to 1 (normal) prior to the 9am "problem" email being triggered.

 

Maybe i have a misunderstanding of what the purpose of the "problem" email is. I thought that that there there were a couple of reasons for this. 

1. Remind you that there is/was a leak that needs to be rectified.

2. Warn you of a missed heartbeat and to check the battery or sensor communications

3. Problem email would be sent twice per day to continually remind you of problems until they were rectified

 

In the case of having sensors that need to be manually reset, one can easily forget to reset a sensor if there was a small leak that would have dried up within 24 hrs. Maybe you can simulate the same test. Basically run the test as you have but wait a complete 24 hours, maybe even 48 hours. It all depends since timing can be tricky and heartbeats are only sent once per day. Is it possible that with these newer sensors the problem email will mostly be good for one days worth or leak reminders but continual emails of missed heartbeats. Again maybe my perception of how this works is off. 

 

Hopefully this clears up any confusion. 

[Teken]

Teken,

 

I have performed my tests mid day. I can try to do one prior to 9am. For the sensor im testing im noticing that the heartbeat seems to be sent around 8:50am. If i were to run a test at 7am i would expect the leak detection email. (this has been flawless) I would not expect to receive any problem emails assuming that the heartbeat is sent at 8:50 like it has been thus resetting the variable to 1 (normal) prior to the 9am "problem" email being triggered.

 

Maybe i have a misunderstanding of what the purpose of the "problem" email is. I thought that that there there were a couple of reasons for this.

1. Remind you that there is/was a leak that needs to be rectified.

2. Warn you of a missed heartbeat and to check the battery or sensor communications

3. Problem email would be sent twice per day to continually remind you of problems until they were rectified

 

In the case of having sensors that need to be manually reset, one can easily forget to reset a sensor if there was a small leak that would have dried up within 24 hrs. Maybe you can simulate the same test. Basically run the test as you have but wait a complete 24 hours, maybe even 48 hours. It all depends since timing can be tricky and heartbeats are only sent once per day. Is it possible that with these newer sensors the problem email will mostly be good for one days worth or leak reminders but continual emails of missed heartbeats. Again maybe my perception of how this works is off.

 

Hopefully this clears up any confusion.

If we just ignore the ISY UI wet node for now. If the sensor remains wet the trouble e-mail and status email will both show a wet condition until that clears up.

 

If the sensor dries up the same follow up status email will be sent affirming a now dry state or (1) condition. I have not seen the heart beat affect or impact the state of a (existing wet) condition though.

 

NOTE: The program you and I are using is not connected in any way to the UI wet node. This is independent of one another.

 

 

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[rabbit1543]

Teken,

I understand that the program and wet node are technically independent of each other. The program for for variable 2 resets the variable to 1 whenever a heartbeat is switched on or off. and if it doesn't get switched on or off within 25 hours it sets it to 2. Assuming all things are normal with the exception of the WET node. The variable will be changed from 9 to 1 upon a heartbeat. If all variables for your sensors are 1 the problem email will not be sent. My point is that after a wet condition the variable for the wet node will be changed back to 1 even if the node remains wet and you will not get any reminder emails. 

 

So in the test that you propose my assumption is as follows

 

1. 7am test a sensor (node is wet then left to dry)

2. Variable is set to 9 (leak detection email is sent)

3. 8:50am heartbeat is sent from device triggering Variable control 2 program and sets the variable back to 1.

4. 9am Problem email program is run but email is not sent since all variables are now 1 again

 

Am i making my point of view clear? Does this make sense? I mean no disrespect. I know you are a valued member of the community and that things can sometimes come off differentky over text. I just want to have a better understanding of what should be happening.

 

Here is an example program for variable 2 for one of my sensors

If

        Control 'Leak Sensors / HotWaterTank-Heartbeat' is switched On

     Or Control 'Leak Sensors / HotWaterTank-Heartbeat' is switched Off

 

Then

        $sLeakHotWaterTank  = 1

        Wait  25 hours 

        $sLeakHotWaterTank  = 2

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[Teken]

 

Teken,

I understand that the program and wet node are technically independent of each other. The program for for variable 2 resets the variable to 1 whenever a heartbeat is switched on or off. and if it doesn't get switched on or off within 25 hours it sets it to 2. Assuming all things are normal with the exception of the WET node. The variable will be changed from 9 to 1 upon a heartbeat. If all variables for your sensors are 1 the problem email will not be sent. My point is that after a wet condition the variable for the wet node will be changed back to 1 even if the node remains wet and you will not get any reminder emails. 

 

So in the test that you propose my assumption is as follows

 

1. 7am test a sensor (node is wet then left to dry)

2. Variable is set to 9 (leak detection email is sent)

3. 8:50am heartbeat is sent from device triggering Variable control 2 program and sets the variable back to 1.

4. 9am Problem email program is run but email is not sent since all variables are now 1 again

 

Am i making my point of view clear? Does this make sense? I mean no disrespect. I know you are a valued member of the community and that things can sometimes come off differentky over text. I just want to have a better understanding of what should be happening.

 

Here is an example program for variable 2 for one of my sensors

If

        Control 'Leak Sensors / HotWaterTank-Heartbeat' is switched On

     Or Control 'Leak Sensors / HotWaterTank-Heartbeat' is switched Off

 

Then

        $sLeakHotWaterTank  = 1

        Wait  25 hours 

        $sLeakHotWaterTank  = 2

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

I believe nothing beats a real life testing and validation. I will perform the same test as outlined above and report back my results. 

 

Since we are waiting for another 24 hours to ensure what we expect or suspect to happen I will reply back in two days. I (hope) your observations are wrong but better to know the truth then to live a lie! LOL

 

NOTE: I had three real life leak events a few weeks back and the program operated as I had hoped for. When the leak was detected by the clothes washer area I received two alert notifications. I left the sensor wet at the time when 9:00 AM came around I received the status update which also showed a wet 9 code.

 

I later went back down stairs and wiped the sensor dry and reset the sensor and the ISY wet node changed from wet to dry. At 6:00 PM the status update showed a all clear (1) status for all sensors in the home.

 

What I plan to do is make a sensor wet and leave it wet. Wait for both 9:00 AM / 6:00 PM status updates and I expect and (hope) to see a wet condition of 9 for the affected sensor(s).

 

The following day I expect to see the same wet condition listed as 9 even after the heart beat reports back in. The next test will be what you're asking about which is wet to dry.

 

I suspect this part will be in the big picture a none issue because the ISY will still show a wet node until the user resets it. I gather your issue is that the program will no longer send you e-mails affirming the same?

 

If that is the case then perhaps crafting a program which references the wet node for the sensor that links to the leak detection program would provide a fail over program. I am unsure if that has any value to the majority of users since at least three e-mails would be sent and the ISY would persist in displaying the last known state of wet until reset.

 

I believe this comes down to expectations and how one reacts to the wet condition in the home. Speaking for myself only, I can tell you I jumped out of bed at 5-6 AM and was on a mission to find out WTF was going on! LOL 

[rabbit1543]

Sounds good. So far i have yet to leave a sensor in an sitting in a wet condition for more than 24 hours. All of my tests thus far have been to simulate wet then dry without hitting the set button to reset the nodes status.

 

One other thing im thinking to test is to manually set one of the variables to an number not used in the programming, lets say 5. This should be done on a sensor you are not using for the wt/dry testing. If my thinking is correct the variable should be reset sometime within 24hrs assuming a heartbeat is not missed. I am trying this right now and will report back if the variable changes at heartbeat.

 

How are you getting the status update at 6pm if all of your variables are set to 1?

 

 

I just want to reiterate that the program is working mostly as expected  with the exception of continuous problem emails when a sensor has been wet then dried without manually resetting the sensors status via the set button. Your assumption is correct. If my findings are true my issue would be that if there was a leak detected that happened to dry up, i wouldn't get more than one days (1 leak, 2 problem alerts) worth of reminders to reset the sensor. In reality im hoping that i never have real life use for the sensors and if i do i would think i i would remember to reset the sensor, but hey you never know.

 

Side note: i realize that the person who generously contributed the leak detection program was likely using the sensors that reset themselves when dry. Which could be part of the reason im not getting continuous emails. I agree that 3 emails should suffice to have someone reset the sensor but there could be a slight and i mean very slight chance that a sensor does not get manually reset. I know personally i dont load up the ISY console often enough to notice the node was still showing as wet.