X10 to Insteon Conversion

[GTench]

I have an older X10 set up that I installed in the early 90s that was controlled with a Leopard touch screen controller which finally failed on me last fall. I am about  3/4 done converting over to insteon using the ISY944. I will end up with 90 or so insteon devices once I am finished. The house is 3000 or so square feet (2 stories plus basement). I have replaced much of the leopard's touch screen capability with KPLs and later in the spring will likly add ipad or android touch screen control for sprinklers that was done on the Leopard's touch screen. I decided not to replace the Leopard's touch screen control of the RCS x10 tehermostat but to just stick with a trane ComfortLink II XL950 thermostat that I had installed when I changed out the furnace earlier this year. I have 1 X10 electric basebord heater thermostant installed which I will likely not replace because I cannot find an insteon equivalent.

 

At the breaker panel, I have an X10 repeater (ACT I believe?) installed, a passive bridge (coupler) installed, and a passive bridge/coupler/blocker installed on the incomming main neutral conductor to block incomming and outgoing X10 signals (probably over kill). My question is how much of this X10 "stuff" that is installed at the main breaker pannel is worth keeping there once enevrything is converted to insteon. I suspect at least one coupler would be useful but I am not sure about the repeater. I am assuming that the repeater would not recognize insteon signals; so, would be of very little value. I currently have no insteon repeaters installed. I assumed that I would not need them because I ahve a fairly large number of insteon devices distributed throughout the house and they themselves repeat signals. Is this correct?

 

thanks,

Gary

[Teken]

Hello Gary T,

 

Smartlabs recommends one repeater for every 1000 feet. If the bulk of your Insteon system are those installed into metal JBOX's. the RF portion will be extremely limited.

 

If you have several plug Insteon devices from lamp linc, On / Off Relay, Range Extender, and have confirmed the proper coupling / bridging via the 4 tap beacon test out lined in the full users manual.

 

You should be good to go.

 

Note, some X10 repeaters are known to cause issues like the older X10 Booster Linc's. If your previous X10 install was reliable and consistent in performance you have no doubt already addressed all the noise makers / signal suckers.

[paulbates]

Gary-

 

Like x10 there is a little bit of trial and error that is usually related to certain circuits and electrical components, which can be hard to predict. In your case, you can start with places you know had problems.

 

For me, Insteon does not do well controlling low voltage lighting transformers (interior and exterior). If they are in the middle of a circuit, they disrupt insteon traffic in both directions and either dual bands are needed or noise filters added. The x10 XPNR and plug in noise filters continue to work for me, so keep those around. Motors and 220 volt devices have also been a problem. As with x10, these things reveal themselves when they are turned on. If you have wired in X10 filters installed at locations like this, keep them there.

 

To add to Teken's comments, metal electrical boxes are bad news for dual band, rendering the rf part almost useless, at least for me. I would plan for at least 5 of your lamplincs and switchlincs to be dual band, unless you are going mostly dual band. You can then swap them into or near problem locations. That worked for me when making the move to insteon.

 

I still have the passive coupler/blocker on my panel and have no problems related to it (I started with an Ocelot and just sold off a lot of my Adicon and RCS X10 gear). I also have the insteon signal linc wired into my panel, its the insteon equivalent of an x10 passive coupler. 

 

Like X10, If you can locate your PLM near the panel, that is more optimal to reaching all locations.

 

Paul

[Teken]

As a follow up you really can't go wrong with purchasing a On / Off Relay, Lamp Linc plugin module over the Range Extender. The former provides you dual use where as the latter only provides coupling and repeating RF signals to the power line.

 

If you're going to have a wall wart might as well have some use out of it!

[Brian H]

The passive phase bridges should pass Insteon's power line signals fine.

The ACT or active coupler repeater may cause Insteon problems. Depends on what model it is.

Some see the tail end of an Insteon power line signal as a X10 command and send what they think is a valid X10 power line signal.

The only X10 repeater coupler I definitely know does not step on Insteon power line signals. Is the JV Digital Engineering. XTB-IIR. I have one in my mixed system and it blasts over a ten volt X10 power line signal and respects Insteon.

[GTench]

Thanks All. I appreciate the comments.

I have a mix of 7 or 8 insteon plug in modules throughout the house and 3 outside for Xmas lights now with plans for a few more inside, I have filters on all the major signal suckers (from the X10 install) like UPS, power bricks, Tvs, computers, etc. I even put one on the new firnace - it has a dc motor and thoght it might generate noise. I will likely try shutting off the breaker to the X10 repeater once I get down to just the X10 baseboard heater thermostat. I have not tried the 4 tap beacon test that Teken mentioned. I will give it a try. So far the system seems quite reliable. I like the scene concept but did miss the X10 capability to turn "all off" on a specific house code. This was quite useful for turning off all of mr wife's motorized/lighted Xmas decorations. I have done that with a scene now; it is just that the X10 way was simplier to initially set up.

[Teken]

Thanks All. I appreciate the comments.

I have a mix of 7 or 8 insteon plug in modules throughout the house and 3 outside for Xmas lights now with plans for a few more inside, I have filters on all the major signal suckers (from the X10 install) like UPS, power bricks, Tvs, computers, etc. I even put one on the new firnace - it has a dc motor and thoght it might generate noise. I will likely try shutting off the breaker to the X10 repeater once I get down to just the X10 baseboard heater thermostat. I have not tried the 4 tap beacon test that Teken mentioned. I will give it a try. So far the system seems quite reliable. I like the scene concept but did miss the X10 capability to turn "all off" on a specific house code. This was quite useful for turning off all of mr wife's motorized/lighted Xmas decorations. I have done that with a scene now; it is just that the X10 way was simplier to initially set up.

 

Hello Gary,

 

Sound like you are off to the races and will enjoy your Insteon network well into the future.

 

NOTE: Once you have confirmed proper coupling / bridging via the 4 tap beacon test outlined in the full users manual for the various dual band products you own. It doesn't really matter where you place the other devices so long as coupling is present.

 

From a practical stand point I have always deployed a dual band plugin device in all four corners of the home, floors, zones. This ensures any RF only devices such as hidden door sensors, open / close, motion sensor, leak sensors are always with in 25-50 feet of any of the plugin devices.

 

I have not seen an Insteon device falter using this method besides bad COM's where signal suckers / noise makers are present. As you're probably very aware all the coupling in the world will not resolve persistent noise / signal sucking issues. 

[GTench]

Thanks Teken,

I like your idea of placing them in the four corners. Just by chance this is almost the case now for the 2 main floors. I will do the same for the basement as part of the transistion.

Gary

[oberkc]

I, too, have access points (or range extenders) in the four corners of my house. Based on my experience, I would not be overly concerned with elevation. I find that my rf coverage is sufficient on all three levels with the access points being only on a single level.

 

This may be less true if you are relying not on range extenders, but rather devices in boxes or lamplincs or whatever. I would wait for signs of trouble before pre-emptively deploying devices in the basement solely for the purpose of providing rf coverage.

[Teken]

I, too, have access points (or range extenders) in the four corners of my house. Based on my experience, I would not be overly concerned with elevation. I find that my rf coverage is sufficient on all three levels with the access points being only on a single level.

 

This may be less true if you are relying not on range extenders, but rather devices in boxes or lamplincs or whatever. I would wait for signs of trouble before pre-emptively deploying devices in the basement solely for the purpose of providing rf coverage.

It's lucky this is a hobby! Otherwise this gets really expensive, fast! ️

 

Then again, it's almost like an addiction once part of the home is automated. I truly believe Insteon has brought HA to the masses where it's affordable for all.

 

Even though HA systems like Control 4 are present they cost are 3-5 times the cost of Insteon and requires a pay as you go installer to add and make adjustments.

 

 

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Edited December 30, 2014 by Teken