Teken Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Just hot off the presses this looks like the Apple Home Kit version of the HUB: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2243-222-hub-pro.html Interesting to note there are two USB ports in the rear of this device. Some basic specs which is in line with what has come out of Smartlabs in the last few months. If Smartlabs had any gumption I would hazard to guess the USB ports could be used for virtual cloud and remote storage of media etc. There is no mention if local access and control is present. But, its safe to say this device is very much *Cloud* dependent in operations and features. Lets hope they learnt a few things along the way about supporting (ALL) insteon devices in the mobile Apps on all OS platforms. It makes no mention of X10 support but others have advised us the current HUB II is capable of X10 support using the Android App. 1. Dual Band RF / Power Line 2. Supports 992 links, 992 scenes, 256 controlled scenes, built in PLM. 3. RF range is stated as 250 feet open line of sight. 4. 2 watts of consumption. 5. 1000 volts surge protection. 6. 120 - 277 VAC voltage / dual line frequency support 50/60 Hz. 7. More than likely Apple Home Kit enabled. 8. Beacon test / 4 tap test to confirm split single phase coupling / bridging. 9. Indicates schedules so this might be the first go at conditional logic. 10. Uses the old form factor of the previous generation HUB v1 / v2
fitzpatri8 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Here's the CES presentation page. http://cesweb.org/Events-Programs/Innovation/InnovationAwards/2015/Smart-Home/INSTEON-HomeKit-app-and-HomeKit-Hub.aspx There's nothing to suggest it having any conditional logic (schedules are what the existing 2012 and 2014 Hubs have, those are simple on/off events), but the bit about supporting all HomeKit enabled devices, regardless of manufacturer, is the big news!
Teken Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 Here's the CES presentation page. http://cesweb.org/Events-Programs/Innovation/InnovationAwards/2015/Smart-Home/INSTEON-HomeKit-app-and-HomeKit-Hub.aspx There's nothing to suggest it having any conditional logic (schedules are what the existing 2012 and 2014 Hubs have, those are simple on/off events), but the bit about supporting all HomeKit enabled devices, regardless of manufacturer, is the big news! Agreed, having the ability to support 3rd party devices not native to the Insteon / X10 eco system is fantastic to say the least. Lets see how all of this pans out before we get too excited about its potential. My personal observations is that the latest HUB II in my mind is the replacement of the now retired SmartLinc. This new HUB Pro comes across to me as the new iteration of House Linc combined with the HUB. But, the added bonus of Apple Home Kit support in the mix. Everyone pretty much knows I have no problems throwing Smartlabs under the bus when they run a fowl. But, in this case their attempt to make the best use of the current trends (loosely speaking) in the Apple Home Kit is a huge step forward for them. I do wish them the very best in this launch and hope very much the Engineers were allowed to make this next generation device great and harness the true power of the Cloud and local controls. If this is still going to be based on Cloud Power . . . Well, lets just say my views on this are pretty dim!
ahwman Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 A few questions: • Can I assume that this hub could coexist with an existing ISY? • Does this hub require a PLM or is it built in? • My intensions would be to use this hub solely to integrate my existing Insteon devices with Siri, is my thinking correct or would this only support devices made for HomeKit? Thank you for clarification...
Teken Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 A few questions: • Can I assume that this hub could coexist with an existing ISY? • Does this hub require a PLM or is it built in? • My intensions would be to use this hub solely to integrate my existing Insteon devices with Siri, is my thinking correct or would this only support devices made for HomeKit? Thank you for clarification... Normally only one controller would be in use to avoid conflicts and trouble. It would probably be best for you to decide to use one or the other. The HUB Pro has a built in PLM inside. Details about how Smartlabs has decided to integrate into a Apple iOS are still unknown. But, would have to assume (big guess on my part) that Siri could manage and control Insteon devices as well as Home Kit devices. Otherwise it would be pretty silly and limited if that were not the case.
Brian H Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 When I checked the FCC Database last night. It was not there yet.
Peabods Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I just bought the new Hub, wish I knew this was coming down the pipe..I did get it on sale for $40 bones at least! Looks like i'll be selling it in a couple of months.
Quietminded Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Maybe im a dummy? How did you get it for $40
Peabods Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Maybe im a dummy? How did you get it for $40 Enjoy my friend! http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2245-222-hub.html
Quietminded Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Thank you... The dummy thing might be right, I didn't read your post carefully and thought you preordered the new pro for $40. But thank you for getting back to me.
Teken Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 When I checked the FCC Database last night. It was not there yet. I am a little shocked that being the case. As most FCC applications must be submitted almost a year in advanced. My (WAG) is that it falls under their existing HUB applications because mechanically it hasn't changed much simply added a few USB ports. Which would allow them to simply supply a update application instead of a new one. Regardless I am looking forward to reading what it has to offer the general public in terms of features, capability, and device support. I really hope local web access is present and the cloud portion is just the primary method. I really wish they would quantify what the 1000 volt rating is based on? Normally this is based on joules and indicates this is based on the XXX standard edition listed by cUL / UL. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
isyrocks! Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I sure would like to be able to use SIRI. I use Mobilinc form my iPhone and it's seems so slow. If there was any way to speed up issuing commands like using SIRI I would be very inclined to do it. I too wonder if I could run the Hub in conjunction with my ISY as I could not give up the ISY based on the programs and networking module.
Teken Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 I sure would like to be able to use SIRI. I use Mobilinc form my iPhone and it's seems so slow. If there was any way to speed up issuing commands like using SIRI I would be very inclined to do it. I too wonder if I could run the Hub in conjunction with my ISY as I could not give up the ISY based on the programs and networking module. If you managed the network properly this could be done. I did this for years with the SmartLinc because it just worked for the other members of the family that just needed a simple interface. You could either decide to separate some devices in the home that the new HUB Pro controlled vs the ISY. This in effect would allow you to have two controllers in the home controlling different parts of the home. Doing this would obviously open you up to potential unknown issues and supporting this type of solution for any company would be a nightmare. You also have the potential where one system wipes out, or creates links / half links to the other system
Brian H Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Press Release on the HUB Pro and Apple Home Kit. http://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2015/01/06/insteon-announces-apple-homekit-app-and-hub
Teken Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 Press Release on the HUB Pro and Apple Home Kit. http://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2015/01/06/insteon-announces-apple-homekit-app-and-hub Very nice and does clarify the unification of both Insteon and Apple Home Kit enabled devices for the other member. It doesn't actually state it has conditional logic like the ISY but does indicate schedules based on day, week, date.
paulbates Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 That's great. When there are more open markets for Insteon, its good for all of us Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Peabods Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Question about Apple Home Kit in general. Does being Apple Home Kit "Certified", so to say, mean that all devices are interoperable with each other? So the Insteon Hub would be certified and capable of adding in other manufacturer's Home Kit certified products into the Insteon world? Or is this just saying that the new home kit version of the Insteon hub will now be able to take advantage of Apple Siri and other services from Apple? The answer to this will more than likely determine if i go this route or not in the future. Thanks guys Edit: "The INSTEON + app HomeKit Hub allows iOS 8 users to control 200-plus INSTEON devices and all HomeKit-enabled devices, regardless of manufacturer or protocol, enabling the interoperability of the largest number of connected home devices to date" I guess this comment answers my question!
larryllix Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Enjoy my friend! http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2245-222-hub.html Looks like the printer ink marketing scam is happening. I guess this means they won't be lowering the module prices anytime soon.
paulbates Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 "The INSTEON + app HomeKit Hub allows iOS 8 users to control 200-plus INSTEON devices and all HomeKit-enabled devices, regardless of manufacturer or protocol, enabling the interoperability of the largest number of connected home devices to date" I guess this comment answers my question! While I'm happy to see this new product, I would file that quote under "best intentions". This is a brand new product, with a very new apple homekit ecosystem. That means users finding out things that need to be addressed by using it, and firmware updates created to address those things. To date, insteon controllers have not supported user update-able firmware, and hubs/controllers have to be returned and replaced to deal with firmware issues. I experienced this with the first rev of hub 1. Maybe firmware is user update-able in the new homekit world? I don't know that. I would be cautiously optimistic about that quote and the first rev of this device. It might be an ok idea if you starting your HA system brand new, and/or if you are an early adopter and can live with some warts as they are worked out..
Teken Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 While I'm happy to see this new product, I would file that quote under "best intentions". This is a brand new product, with a very new apple homekit ecosystem. That means users finding out things that need to be addressed by using it, and firmware updates created to address those things. To date, insteon controllers have not supported user update-able firmware, and hubs/controllers have to be returned and replaced to deal with firmware issues. I experienced this with the first rev of hub 1. Maybe firmware is user update-able in the new homekit world? I don't know that. I would be cautiously optimistic about that quote and the first rev of this device. It might be an ok idea if you starting your HA system brand new, and/or if you are an early adopter and can live with some warts as they are worked out.. Paul, I could not have expressed my thoughts better. (Rant = Throw Smartlabs under bus) It has been indicated that the latest HUB II is field upgrade-able. To date no firmware has been pushed out for this product which still has many failings in how it operates and what feature sets are made available. To be fair to Smartlabs, this could be seen from a different view in that what (we users) expect as firmware updates is in fact being reflected in the smartphone Apps. This is actually the problem with the whole cloud based services that are prevalent in the open market now. Companies are updating the Apps on the smartphone which then translates to more feature etc. Because this is being hosted by a virtual server very few things need to be actually processed by the dumb box. If used properly and managed correctly this makes any dumb box extremely powerful, scale-able, and redundant. From historic perspective the problem I have seen and many others who have owned the various products such as: iGateway, SmartLinc, House Linc, HUB v1, HUB v2, HUB II, there has never been any updates. They have always left the devices as is and abandoned them and moved forward with something else. This for me cause not only concern but affirms they have no intention of ever changing this deployment philosophy. Specifically, I am extremely pleased Smartlabs has taken on the whole Apple Home Kit eco system approach as it helps unify a market of hap hazard, differing protocols, and allows mass adoptions from all. As in the past I will sit this one out and watch from afar and see how this unfolds. I am going to give Smarlabs the benefit of the doubt they were given free reign and resources to do this right. I hope and expect to see this their best effort in releasing a HA Controller than we all can be proud of and rely upon. Having said this, should they fail like they have with the last five generations of controllers. I will have no problem saying I told you SO!!! Sit back, and enjoy the Gong Show . . .
Peabods Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 While I'm happy to see this new product, I would file that quote under "best intentions". This is a brand new product, with a very new apple homekit ecosystem. That means users finding out things that need to be addressed by using it, and firmware updates created to address those things. To date, insteon controllers have not supported user update-able firmware, and hubs/controllers have to be returned and replaced to deal with firmware issues. I experienced this with the first rev of hub 1. Maybe firmware is user update-able in the new homekit world? I don't know that. I would be cautiously optimistic about that quote and the first rev of this device. It might be an ok idea if you starting your HA system brand new, and/or if you are an early adopter and can live with some warts as they are worked out.. No worries there, my 994 isn't going anywhere! I have way to many devices and integration w/ all kinds of stuff to every think about abandoning UDI. This is the industry i work in so this is more for research and playing, plus I'm not an Apple guy!
Teken Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 Looks like the printer ink marketing scam is happening. I guess this means they won't be lowering the module prices anytime soon. Explain? It appears the intro price is now the regular price at $149.99. Smartlabs is being pretty aggressive with the pricing here and if it turns out to work, operate, feature support it will really take sales from competing products in the market.
larryllix Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Explain? It appears the intro price is now the regular price at $149.99. Smartlabs is being pretty aggressive with the pricing here and if it turns out to work, operate, feature support it will really take sales from competing products in the market. Sure, IF the regular price really goes to $149. That seems high for a non-too-smart box. (I didn't use HA as I don't detect any automation based on their original Hub. SCADA maybe?) It sure would make a nice PLM for ISY at that low price with a modern Ethernet serial port interface though but UDI believes it has too many complications making more unreliable. Think of this...a PLM that can be addressed by multiple ISYs, CAI WCx, Mobilinc and umpteen PCs etc.. from different locations and all communicating simultaneously over Ethernet standards / REST using CAT5/6, WiFi, Fibre, Cell, Satellite. Insteon can only support one communication interaction at a time anyway. The printer scam was a comparison with the industry admitted, lose money on the hardware to sell ink at exorbitant rates. Kodak tried to break this bad habit only to get blackballed by the rest of the mob. Now Kodak complies with a market lost reputation.
Teken Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 Sure, IF the regular price really goes to $149. That seems high for a non-too-smart box. (I didn't use HA as I don't detect any automation based on their original Hub. SCADA maybe?) It sure would make a nice PLM for ISY at that low price with a modern Ethernet serial port interface though but UDI believes it has too many complications making more unreliable. Think of this...a PLM that can be addressed by multiple ISYs, CAI WCx, Mobilinc and umpteen PCs etc.. from different locations and all communicating simultaneously over Ethernet standards / REST using CAT5/6, WiFi, Fibre, Cell, Satellite. Insteon can only support one communication interaction at a time anyway. The printer scam was a comparison with the industry admitted, lose money on the hardware to sell ink at exorbitant rates. Kodak tried to break this bad habit only to get blackballed by the rest of the mob. Now Kodak complies with a market lost reputation. Oh OK, I thought you were talking about the toner phoners! Well, Smarthome (this time around) has listed the price as $149.99 opposed to the *A Typical* get it now its on sale, or pre sale, or were are still thinking about it price?? So, that is a good move and reduces anxiety from the masses. I also agree if the HUB Pro could be some how harnessed to use as a Gateway this might offer UDI a means to interface and deploy Home Kit?? I think so long as people realize only one controller can be in charge this might be a short term solution for the public, no?
larryllix Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I think so long as people realize only one controller can be in charge this might be a short term solution for the public, no? Yeah, I guess any multiple controlled device needs some kind of arbitration for control and not likely the Hub II will do much of that. OTOH, the first HUB has some arbitration handling built in because you can control it from anywhere already. I bought one for my son, by mistake a year ago. My son being in a high tech industry quickly lost interest due to lack of challenge with the HUB. He has a box full of Insteon stuff sitting idle. I bought a Hub for me, also but quickly returned it once I realised it's un-smartness. I went through this years back with X10 and all the stupid grandstanding dumb controllers SmartHome came out with, without any conditional logic.
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