All On All Off not consistent when using mini remote

Blackbird · February 15, 2015

I have 3 x10 lights and 6 insteon and when I turn them all off or all on a couple of the lights at random, dont work. I am using a two programs because I am including x10.

ALL OFF

If
        Control 'Remote 2 Bedroom - H' is switched Fast Off
     Or Control 'Remote 1H All on Off' is switched Fast Off
     Or Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Fast Off

Then
        Set 'Back Porch Light' Off
        Set 'Bathroom Lights' Off
        Set 'Kitchen Lights' Off
        Set 'Living room Main Lights' Off
        Set 'Living room above tv lights' Off
        Set 'Living room above chair light' Off

Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

ALL ON

If
        Control 'Remote 1H All on Off' is switched Fast On
     Or Control 'Remote 2 Bedroom - H' is switched Fast On

Then
        Set 'Back Porch Light' On
        Set 'Bathroom Lights' On
        Set 'Kitchen Lights' On
        Set 'Living room Main Lights' On
        Set 'Living room above chair light' On
        Set 'Living room above tv lights' On
        Send X10 'E3/On (3)'
        Send X10 'E2/On (3)'

Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Any idea why the lights wont all consistently turn on and off? Is there a traffic jam with the signal to every device?

PurdueGuy · February 15, 2015

Whenever I have a program triggered by a button press (remote, KPL, switch), I put a small delay in there.

If I don't, it seems the initial device and the PLM start transmitting and things don't work as well.

LeeG · February 15, 2015

Because these are individual device On/Off, if the suggestion from PurdueGuy does not resolve things, run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 and post event trace. The Acks and Hop counts should provide information about Insteon network quality.

The Remotes send multiple RF On/Off commands which can interfere with the first few devices which is why PurdueGuy suggestion will often solve the problem.

Blackbird · February 15, 2015

Because these are individual device On/Off, if the suggestion from PurdueGuy does not resolve things, run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 and post event trace. The Acks and Hop counts should provide information about Insteon network quality.

The Remotes send multiple RF On/Off commands which can interfere with the first few devices which is why PurdueGuy suggestion will often solve the problem.

This turned on Only 4 out of my 6 insteon dimmers and 2 out of 3 of my x10 switches. Even the ones that work come on slow as in the each take a turn to come on a couple seconds apart from each other. Is there a better program I could use? By the way I didn't put a delay on yet

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 00.00.07 CF 12 00 LTON-F (00)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Group ] 2E.E9.72-->Group=7, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2E E9 72 7] [DFON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ 2E E9 72 7] DFON 0

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [D2D-CMP 000A] CTL [2E E9 72 7] DFON op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 00.00.07 CF 12 00 LTON-F (00)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Group ] 2E.E9.72-->Group=7, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored.

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 54 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 AE BF 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 AD 62 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A7 86 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 3F 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 33 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 33.5D.7B 4A 12 07 LTON-F (07)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.E9.72-->ISY/PLM Group=7, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=2

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored.

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.A8.54 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.A8.54 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2E E9 72 7] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ 2E E9 72 7] ST 255

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ X10] E3

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ X10] E3/On (3)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ X10] E2

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ X10] E2/On (3)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:55 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.AE.BF 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:55 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.AE.BF 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 33.A8.54 33.5D.7B 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:55 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.A8.54-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:55 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 A8 54 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:55 PM : [ 33 A8 54 1] ST 255

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:56 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.A7.86 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:56 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.A7.86 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:56 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.A8.3F 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:56 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.A8.3F 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 33.A7.86 33.5D.7B 2F 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.A7.86-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 A7 86 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [ 33 A7 86 1] ST 255

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 33.A8.3F 33.5D.7B 2F 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.A8.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 A8 3F 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:58 PM : [ 33 A8 3F 1] ST 255

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:59 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 12 80 06

Sun 02/15/2015 02:45:00 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 1E 00 06

Sun 02/15/2015 02:45:01 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 12 80 06

LeeG · February 15, 2015

Add a 2 second delay. One second may be enough but start with 2 seconds.

From the trace the Remote Fast On messages are being received at the same time outbound messages are being sent. Outbound to 33 AE BF and 33 AD 62 are lost during the overlap

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 00.00.07 CF 12 00    LTON-F (00)
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Group   ] 2E.E9.72-->Group=7, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [2E E9 72 7] [DFON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ 2E E9 72 7]     DFON   0
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [D2D-CMP 000A] CTL [2E E9 72 7] DFON op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 00.00.07 CF 12 00    LTON-F (00)
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Group   ] 2E.E9.72-->Group=7, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 54 0F 11 FF
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 AE BF 0F 11 FF
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 AD 62 0F 11 FF
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A7 86 0F 11 FF
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 3F 0F 11 FF
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 33 0F 11 FF
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 33.5D.7B 4A 12 07    LTON-F (07)
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.E9.72-->ISY/PLM Group=7, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=2
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.A8.54 0F 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF)
Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.A8.54 0F 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Blackbird · February 15, 2015

Do I add the delay at the beginning of the program

Jimbo.Automates · February 15, 2015

Why not put them all in a scene and turn the scene on and off?

Blackbird · February 15, 2015

Why not put them all in a scene and turn the scene on and off?

I have x10 as well so I thought the program was the only way

Blackbird · February 15, 2015

Add a 2 second delay. One second may be enough but start with 2 seconds.

From the trace the Remote Fast On messages are being received at the same time outbound messages are being sent. Outbound to 33 AE BF and 33 AD 62 are lost during the overlap

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 00.00.07 CF 12 00    LTON-F (00)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Group   ] 2E.E9.72-->Group=7, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [2E E9 72 7] [DFON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [ 2E E9 72 7]     DFON   0

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [D2D-CMP 000A] CTL [2E E9 72 7] DFON op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 00.00.07 CF 12 00    LTON-F (00)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Group   ] 2E.E9.72-->Group=7, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 54 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 AE BF 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 AD 62 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A7 86 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 3F 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 A8 33 0F 11 FF

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.E9.72 33.5D.7B 4A 12 07    LTON-F (07)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.E9.72-->ISY/PLM Group=7, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=2

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.A8.54 0F 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF)

Sun 02/15/2015 02:44:54 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.A8.54 0F 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

I added 2 seconds and no difference. Am I putting the wait in the right place?

If

Control 'Remote 1H All on Off' is switched Fast On

Or Control 'Remote 2 Bedroom - H' is switched Fast On

Then

Wait 2 seconds

Set 'Back Porch Light' On

Set 'Bathroom Lights' On

Set 'Kitchen Lights' On

Set 'Living room Main Lights' On

Set 'Living room above chair light' On

Set 'Living room above tv lights' On

Send X10 'E3/On (3)'

Send X10 'E2/On (3)'

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Blackbird · February 15, 2015

Why not put them all in a scene and turn the scene on and off?

As I said I also have x10 but I thought I would try a scene with all on all off for just the insteon dimmers and it works perfectly with no delay and they all turn on and off at the same time. So my question is if I was told to put a 2 second delay because of the remote, in the program, why does the remote work perfectly in a scene with no delay? Is my program wrong?

LeeG · February 15, 2015

The first Direct On works, the second and third are lost. The Set Scene ..... On is a single Insteon command that makes it out of the PLM before the next Fast On message is received.

A Scene On/Off is fine if the Insteon network is good. It is a single Insteon command with no retry.

If moving to Set Scene then the X10 messages will likely overlap the additional Fast On message so a Wait between the Set Scene and the x10 activity is a possibility.

Blackbird · February 16, 2015

LeeG, you sound like an expert and unfortunately I am a beginner and didnt really understand your comments

Michel Kohanim · February 17, 2015

Hi Blackbird,

You are always welcome to contact our tech support team (links below).

With kind regards,

Michel

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All On All Off not consistent when using mini remote

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