Brian H Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Just noticed the price for the 2457D2R is now $44.99 and the 2457D2 is still $49.99. Smarthome claims you are still getting a deal. By saying the 2547D2Rs list price is $59.99 reduced to $44.99. While a brand new 2457D2 is still a list price of $49.99. If the difference in price is only $5.00. I don't know why anyone would save $5.00 for a 30 day warranty over the new one. That is 2 Years.
Teken Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Just noticed the price for the 2457D2R is now $44.99 and the 2457D2 is still $49.99. Smarthome claims you are still getting a deal. By saying the 2547D2Rs list price is $59.99 reduced to $44.99. While a brand new 2457D2 is still a list price of $49.99. If the difference in price is only $5.00. I don't know why anyone would save $5.00 for a 30 day warranty over the new one. That is 2 Years. This is like the custom key pricing. I have indicated over the years the price should remain at the $19.XX price point. Not their insane price of $49.XX or what ever make believe price! They sold more custom keys at the lower price in one month then they ever did in an entire year. Why anyone would cut off a nice revenue stream is beyond me? Then again their insistence to state there are 200 Insteon products is just another head shaker. Calling screws for frame kits, color widgets, Insteon products instead of accessories is quite comical to read over and over. ️ Then again this is the same company that insists upon selling thousand dollar baby play structures, pet products, and dollar store items at 9999999% of what others are selling at. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
paulbates Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Agreed Brian. With all of the change in Insteon sales channels, and all of the new competition based on CES, Apple, Amazon and Google; I am using up my Insteon supply / spares and only buying new when I absolutely have to. No new power-line projects until I see how all of this shakes out and if Insteon prices come down. I'm definitely staying on Insteon, but have this nagging feeling about the prices coming down. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Teken Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Agreed Brian. With all of the change in Insteon sales channels, and all of the new competition based on CES, Apple, Amazon and Google; I am using up my Insteon supply / spares and only buying new when I absolutely have to. No new power-line projects until I see how all of this shakes out and if Insteon prices come down. I'm definitely staying on Insteon, but have this nagging feeling about the prices coming down. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD It was clear during X-MAS prices could be dropped quite a lot and profits could be made. Sensors & modules for under $20.00 was seen during the 4 pack sale and flew off the shelves. The fact costco sells three 4 packs for $99.00 all day long which comes directly from SH affirms profit margins are extremely high. Time for a price break for the consumer! Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
paulbates Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yeh, agreed Teken. I think there is an on-going audience for Smarthome. At the same time, there new retail channels. And those of us that are insteon customers more than Smarthome customers. They will have to adapt. I could see prices coming down, but also the warranty down to 1 year or even 90 days. These new retail channels have to think through how they help new buyer get through basic phase bridging etc, versus 'plug and pray' thinking. Or most things become dual band and hope the law of averages works. Fun times; time to get out the popcorn, sit back and watch the movie Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Teken Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yeh, agreed Teken. I think there is an on-going audience for Smarthome. At the same time, there new retail channels. And those of us that are insteon customers more than Smarthome customers. They will have to adapt. I could see prices coming down, but also the warranty down to 1 year or even 90 days. These new retail channels have to think through how they help new buyer get through basic phase bridging etc, versus 'plug and pray' thinking. Or most things become dual band and hope the law of averages works. Fun times; time to get out the popcorn, sit back and watch the movie Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD I would expect to see a price drop this year but won't hold my breath. Because HD, Walmart, Best Buy, Future Shop, Costco, Radio Shack, Tiger Direct, Menards, etc Have been selling for quite awhile yet prices have stayed the same. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
paulbates Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 It's official, and a reverse twist on Insteon buying: Its simpler and cheaper for me to drive and get my basic Insteon from 'brick an mortar' retail sellers". The lower prices / rebates are becoming liturgy: Retail Menards - $44.47 (Normally 49.97 - 5.50 Menards credit) Bestbuy - $46.99 Online Amazon - $46.21 ('Retail' is considered $59.99) + shipping Smarthome - $49.99 + shipping I realize the shipping depends on having a prime account and size of the order. If I just want a switch, I would normally experience shipping charges for online on top of cost + tax. But its a short drive, I can get it right away, why would I wait?
Teken Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 In your situation it makes sense to drive to pick up a small quantity given Menards carries a full suite of products. Our local Future Shop / Best Buys only carries a smattering of items and they are all NOS! Which are also more expensive than SH sells at WTF?!?! And Best Buys wonders why they are going out of business like Sears, Radio Shack, etc?! Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
paulbates Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Yeh, If Smartlabs wants to enter the retail brick and mortar market, the message is "strap on your seatbelts". The bigger players know consumers are brought in by quality brands and low price. Either alone is not sufficient. Some of the (IMO) gigantic wiggle room between production cost and sale price of insteon products will need to be given up, in the name of marketshare. It seems to be heading that-a-way.
Teken Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Yeh, If Smartlabs wants to enter the retail brick and mortar market, the message is "strap on your seatbelts". The bigger players know consumers are brought in by quality brands and low price. Either alone is not sufficient. Some of the (IMO) gigantic wiggle room between production cost and sale price of insteon products will need to be given up, in the name of marketshare. It seems to be heading that-a-way. Agreed, but let it be clear I don't begrudge any company making a profit. That is why its called business in the first place to make money selling products / services. My issue is the out of this world pricing that seem to be made up at a drop of hat. This sort of *** hattery is something the consumer sees and realizes is simply gouging of the consumer. Speaking for myself only if the QA was 100% and they offered more features I would be OK with any price they listed. But, we all know QA is still a moving target and features are still very slim in specific device categories. I would love to see more improvements in the Energy Meter, iSolo, Synchro Linc, I/O Linc, and taking on new products in the *Insteon Wish List* To be fair to Smartlabs they have over the course of the years released quite a few items on that list. But now with the massive adoption of HA from all the likes of Staples, Home Depot, Samsung, Google, etc. Insteon needs to push forward and offer either more value, price, or products.
lilyoyo1 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 I see things a little differently. Insteon does not have the resources like apple, google, or microsoft. To expect them to push out every single feature or device we request would break most companies. When you look at the 3 companies I have named, look at their product lines and features within those lines. None immediately had everything people want. When features were added it was done over a period of years. Even when it came to adding features that people want, the lines move. What we want now may be different than what we want tomorrow. Every mfg. have to way costs into implementing any feature or new product. Compare insteon to zwave. Zwave is a conglomerate, yet they have the same devices Insteon has. They have some that Insteon doesn't but Insteon also have some that they don't have. If a multitude of different companies can't come up with devices that everyone wants how can we expect 1 company to do it. We ask for many different things on here. Imagine how many other people ask for things! Not all can be implemented; especially at one time. Insteon is expensive to do a whole house. However when I look at the cost of a dummy dimmer and then the cost of an insteon dimmer (and what it can do), I feel it is reasonably priced. This is especially true when you look at the price of automation in general. The last thing I also look at is what switches now are capable of compared to 5 years ago. In 2009 I did my first insteon install in my first house. I think about the speed of communication etc. When I look at things now, its much better. I see the improvements now and think about what it can be in 5 years. The changes from I1 to I2cs were big. I2cs to I3,4, and 5. Imagine what could be down the road. IOS and android lollipop didn't happen in the first go round and both of those companies are multi billion dollar companies.
Teken Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 I see things a little differently. Insteon does not have the resources like apple, google, or microsoft. To expect them to push out every single feature or device we request would break most companies. When you look at the 3 companies I have named, look at their product lines and features within those lines. None immediately had everything people want. When features were added it was done over a period of years. Even when it came to adding features that people want, the lines move. What we want now may be different than what we want tomorrow. Every mfg. have to way costs into implementing any feature or new product. Compare insteon to zwave. Zwave is a conglomerate, yet they have the same devices Insteon has. They have some that Insteon doesn't but Insteon also have some that they don't have. If a multitude of different companies can't come up with devices that everyone wants how can we expect 1 company to do it. We ask for many different things on here. Imagine how many other people ask for things! Not all can be implemented; especially at one time. Insteon is expensive to do a whole house. However when I look at the cost of a dummy dimmer and then the cost of an insteon dimmer (and what it can do), I feel it is reasonably priced. This is especially true when you look at the price of automation in general. The last thing I also look at is what switches now are capable of compared to 5 years ago. In 2009 I did my first insteon install in my first house. I think about the speed of communication etc. When I look at things now, its much better. I see the improvements now and think about what it can be in 5 years. The changes from I1 to I2cs were big. I2cs to I3,4, and 5. Imagine what could be down the road. IOS and android lollipop didn't happen in the first go round and both of those companies are multi billion dollar companies. As always you bring a fair and balanced view. My job is to stoke the fire and bring in the ideas and opportunities that lie ahead! Its very true the companies you listed have billions of dollars and also don't get it right the first go round never mind 999999999 rounds! One only needs to look at the massive fail of the Microsoft Surface, Vista, Google glass, etc. My biggest beef with this company is the complete and brutal lack of communications on every level. Next, is the piss poor development of various products which if grown and developed (over time) would have been a fantastic product! You and I have discussed some of the why's, ifs, buts, etc in other threads. So you know my views on many of the same along with how we see the incredible potential Smartlabs has in this space. As most of those who know me I am quick to pounce, cut down, and throw away! But, I am also in the same breath fair, balanced and concise about giving praise where its deserved. Smartlabs has tremendous potential if only they focused on their core products and kept developing new ones. I have expressed this line of thought many times here and abroad. One of my views are some products were simply released just to fill a space with out any real intent about growing the product at a later date. This short sighted view has been apparent on several products which I have indicated above. Nothing is worse than releasing a half *** product touting a goal and it doesn't even meet that mark. The reality is Smartlabs was tasked by the CEO to meet a budget with no obvious future time line for enhancements. This has been apparent in the Energy Monitor, iSolo, remote TSTAT, 240 Controller, etc. The only saving grace I will give them is that they have started in some newer products to offer more features via firmware updates to products like the On/Off Relay, Dual outlet, where RF/Power Line can be turned off, Smart Hops, etc. These 4-5 new firmware features makes the product more flexible, powerful, and ultimately provides more user value as a whole. The increase in RF power in various products like the HUB II, Dual Outlet Linc are welcomed improvements. Changing the ground strap placement for the dual outlet linc was also fantastic to see! So on some level the company is listening and making changes where it makes sense. But there is much more room for changes and advancements in critical areas! One being the insistence of placing the antenna in the rear of the device instead of the being under the front KPL, Switch Linc cover plate! These products must also increase their RF power output as they did in the dual outlet linc / HUB II. Its apparent this can be done and still be within the FCC guidelines etc. The next thing is to integrate independent RF / Powerline PSU's and how they operate. Insteon by default does not in real world operation actually operate via RF as it does like Z-Wave. Because its been seen by millions of customers when their is noise on the line the RF coms are not existent. This is because both aspects of the RF/Powerline are all in one and part of a integral system. This actually limits its real world use of RF because it can not operate as a true RF device. This method must be changed so it mirrors Z-Wave which translates to higher reliability in bridging / coupling. But, also greater distance and negates powerline noise issues. Since I don't know the road map for Insteon I will leave this out here. Power management and monitoring is literally the next stepping stone! I have placed my idea and thoughts in the Insteon *Wish List* about how their next generation of products must include a method to monitor energy and control it. This aspect should be highly accurate and not some kind of cheap *** method that is currently on the open market from various Z-Wave vendors. Many companies follow and few even bother to lead . . . This is Smartlabs opportunity to lead the market and taken seriously and be reckon with. It is no great surprise Insteon is never mentioned when HA is mentioned to the greater audience of the general public. This one major key issue continues to be the pain point that drives me insane and I will never let it go. That is the shear fact they have literally missed the boat in letting 3rd party vendors make, produce, manufacture Insteon products. This boat has sailed away long ago and I see absolutely no chance of that opportunity ever coming their way again. This is why the whole Apple Home Kit is the clinch pin and will literally make or break their future. Since Smartlabs was too stupid to let others adopt their protocol this is the only method to allow them to integrate into other HA devices etc. As its been well known I have little like in their controllers as time and history has proven. There is zero interest to develop the (existing) product where its reliable, powerful, and feature rich! If this HUB Pro comes out exactly like the previous (4) generation of controllers not only will they have proven me right once again. But the countless millions of others who have endured such a POS product. The reality is what gets my goat is the fact when I see so much potential and power. Only to be pissed away and squandered it truly pains me and sets me off! At the end of the day Smartlabs has taken on two fronts one being the Apple Home Kit and their partnership with Microsoft. If between these two opportunities they can't sell more products, offer more features and devices. They need to die and go away like the doe doe bird. ~ Just my thoughts! HA
lilyoyo1 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 I can see your point and understand where you are coming from. Once again however, i am quite certain they get hundreds of requests a month. If not thousands. Thats not to say none of your ideas won't be implemented but that it takes time to implement things. For example, the ability to turn off powerline/rf; Thats a firmware issue. With product line updates, it may come in a future update. Writing firmware to do one thing can affect another. No company wants to release a bad product. As other devices get updated, I am sure that capability will eventually make it to all of the devices. Just because they do not announce what they are working on does not mean it's not in development. Insteon has not grown to where it is by not seeing trends or where the automation space is growing. When I2cs came out no one expected what is capable now. I don't see them stopping there. Our ideas and desires usually grow at a faster pace than engineering and production.
stusviews Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Interesting conversation, but what does it have to do with the topic?
Teken Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Interesting conversation, but what does it have to do with the topic? Everything . . . Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
stusviews Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 The topic compares the price of the same device from different sellers. There's not a word about features among or between devices.
Teken Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 The topic compares the price of the same device from different sellers. There's not a word about features among or between devices. No, the topic compares the price of the identical item from one vendor (Smarthome). In this instance the OP has indicated a Refurbished item is only $5.00 less than a brand new unit which carries a full two year warranty. When compared to the refurb of only 30 days! Several of my posts directly pointed out similar asinine pricing strategy which SH insists upon using with out any thought about how it will impact their future sales. My last remark(s) were clearly on a tangent (apologies to BLH) but are still in the same vain related. How??? Business practices and communication along with goals for the future growth of the Insteon product line. The bottom line is this company on a global scale retails items well outside of their business space and their pricing does not mirror what *A Typical* companies sell the exact same wares for less. This haphazard pricing is apparent in the Insteon line and the insulting part is someone gets paid to come up with it! Nothing more insulting is to see a random item priced at fictitious levels only to have them say: *Hey this item is on sale, really* Only the truly stupid and inept would fall for something so dumb . . . But, I digress and have taken this thread on a massive tangent! HA!
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