Using Scenes as a condition

[PhanTomiZ]

Hi,

 

I have 2 Switchlinc switches.  One connected to a bathroom fan and the other a light.  I also have an 8 button Keypadlinc dimmer in which button C operates the fan and button E operates the light.  

 

I created 2 scenes so I have feedback to the keypanlinc so that when the switches are operated locally, both button C and E come on and off.

 

When creating the scene I made the keypadlinc buttons, the fan and the light all controllers.

 

So, now I want to create a program to turn the fan off after 5 minutes if the light is switched off or if the fan is turned on either locally or through the keypadlinc.

 

What I'd like to do is use a condition of the Scenes to control a scene to turn off my fan.  Under the condition tab, Scene is not an option, only Status, Control, Program etc...This is what I'd like to do:

 

If  Scene Base bath light is OFF

and Scene Base bath fan is On 

 

Then Wait 5 minutes

Set Scene Base Bath Fan OFF

 

This is what I've done to get it to work:

 

Base Fan Off Delay Working - [iD 0023][Parent 0001]

 

If

        (

             Status  'Mstr Bed Lights - 2A.08.89.1 / 2A.08.89.C' is 100%

         And Status  'Mstr Bed Lights - 2A.08.89.1 / 2A.08.89.E' is Off

        )

     Or (

             Status  'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Fan - 21.09.97.1' is On

         And Control 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Lgt - 20.85.C8.1' is switched Off

        )

 

Then

        Wait  5 minutes and 5 seconds

        Set Scene 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Fan' Off

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Is there an easier or better way to set this up?

 

Thanks

PhanTomiz

 

[stusviews]

A scene has no status because any scene can turn devices on or off in response to turning the scene "on." Instead, select any or all primary device(s) in the scene to query in your IF clause.

[PhanTomiZ]

My program has done this...Good...

 

On another note, how do I get the keypalinc buttons in my example to respond to on/off command of a device from the admin console?

 

Thanks

[paulbates]

I would create a scene the includes device and the button. Make the device a controller/responder. When the device turns on, the Insteon network will turn on the scene at the same time.

(Make both the device and key controller/responders if you want the key to turn the device on as well, if that scenario makes sense)

 

The other choice is to use a "set" command in a program.

 

If

control device is set on

then

set keypad device name on

 

 

However, typically I prefer a scene instead.

[PhanTomiZ]

This may sound like a stupid question, but how do you make it both a controller/responder?  I only have the option of either/or.   

[LeeG]

A Controller in a Scene is also a Responder if the device can function as a Responder. A Motion Sensor - Sensor is an example of a node that can be a Controller only. A SwitchLinc can be a Controller and Responder when defined as a Controller.

[PhanTomiZ]

Ok, makes sense.  I've had these Keypadlincs for a few months and finally got around to installing them.  I'm now trying to figure out how to configure them.  

In the node list, I also noticed if they are red it means it is a controller or both and if it is black it is a responder.  I have a few Z-Wave light switches that won't give me the option of adding them to a scene as controllers, only responders and they turn up black in the scene list.

[PhanTomiZ]

I would create a scene the includes device and the button. Make the device a controller/responder. When the device turns on, the Insteon network will turn on the scene at the same time.

(Make both the device and key controller/responders if you want the key to turn the device on as well, if that scenario makes sense)

 

The other choice is to use a "set" command in a program.

 

If

control device is set on

then

set keypad device name on

 

 

However, typically I prefer a scene instead.

I have created a scene which includes the device and the button as a controller/responder, but this will not cause the kpl button to come on when I turn on the device using admin console.  The kpl button will turn on if I turn on the Scene using admin console.  The only way to accomplish this is to have your program setup like below:

 

Admin Con control test - [iD 0010][Parent 000C]

 

If

        Status  'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Lgt - 20.85.C8.1' is On

 

Then

        Set Scene 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Light' On

 

Else

        Set Scene 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Light' Off

 

 

I would much rather have it work using scenes, but it's not working for me....All works as it should if I operate the device locally or using the kpl, but if I turn on the device using admin console, it won't turn on the appropriate kpl button.

 

What am I doing wrong?

[stusviews]

1. If you turn on the scene from the Admin Console, does the button light?

 

2. Click on the scene. Is the button set to On?

[paulbates]

 

I have created a scene which includes the device and the button as a controller/responder, but this will not cause the kpl button to come on when I turn on the device using admin console.  The kpl button will turn on if I turn on the Scene using admin console.  The only way to accomplish this is to have your program setup like below:

 

Admin Con control test - [iD 0010][Parent 000C]

 

If

        Status  'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Lgt - 20.85.C8.1' is On

 

Then

        Set Scene 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Light' On

 

Else

        Set Scene 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Light' Off

 

 

I would much rather have it work using scenes, but it's not working for me....All works as it should if I operate the device locally or using the kpl, but if I turn on the device using admin console, it won't turn on the appropriate kpl button.

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

 

Hi

 

The other thing to know, and I didn't catch reading this first time, is that remotely turning a device on does not activate any scene its a controller for. You have to use Set Scene as you have done.

 

You have it right.

 

Paul

[EricK]

If you send a command to turn on a device, only that device will turn on. If you want to turn on a group of devices then turn on the scene. This can be a confusing concept for new users.

 

Regarding your program in your first post, I think you can shorten the IF section to:

IF Status 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Fan - 21.09.97.1' is On

And Status 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Lgt - 20.85.C8.1' is Off

You do not need the portion of the IF with the Kpl buttons, since they are just reflecting the status of the fan and light load devices. I changed the second line to status in case you were to turn the light off using the Kpl button.

 

E

[PhanTomiZ]

1. If you turn on the scene from the Admin Console, does the button light?

 

2. Click on the scene. Is the button set to On?

1.  Yes, works perfect

2.  Don't know where to check to see if the button is on

[LeeG]

This tests for a Keypad button being On. Add functional statements to then or Else

 

 

KPLButtonOn - [iD 008A][Parent 0001]

 

If

Status 'KPL 8 Dimmer v40 / KPL 8 Dimmer v40 - E' is 100%

 

Then

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[PhanTomiZ]

If you send a command to turn on a device, only that device will turn on. If you want to turn on a group of devices then turn on the scene. This can be a confusing concept for new users.

 

Regarding your program in your first post, I think you can shorten the IF section to:

IF Status 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Fan - 21.09.97.1' is On

And Status 'Basement Bathroom / Base Bath Lgt - 20.85.C8.1' is Off

You do not need the portion of the IF with the Kpl buttons, since they are just reflecting the status of the fan and light load devices. I changed the second line to status in case you were to turn the light off using the Kpl button.

 

E

Originally, I had set the program to these two lines.  This would work when I locally operated the switches, but when I operated the KPL, it wouldn't work.  I needed to add the other two lines with the kpl buttons.

 

I think I understand now.  I'm turning on a device from the admin console expecting it to trigger the scene turning on the kpl.  So, if I wanted to have the KPL light up when I turn on a device, then I should create a program to do so.  I thought that if the device was included in the scene that it would in turn trigger the scene...

[EricK]

Originally, I had set the program to these two lines.  This would work when I locally operated the switches, but when I operated the KPL, it wouldn't work.  I needed to add the other two lines with the kpl buttons.

 

I think I understand now.  I'm turning on a device from the admin console expecting it to trigger the scene turning on the kpl.  So, if I wanted to have the KPL light up when I turn on a device, then I should create a program to do so.  I thought that if the device was included in the scene that it would in turn trigger the scene...

Sort of. If you want the Kpl to turn on along with the device, then just turn the scene on, not the device. You can do that from the admin console. No need for a program. Unless your Kpl button was not turning on when you set the scene on. This is why stu asked about the Kpl button.

The reason your program didn't work is that you used control for the second switch. That means you physically pressed the switch paddle. If you use status instead then the program with run as you want. When using status for a program trigger, this can be from local control, remote control from the Kpl button in the scene, or from the admin console. Anything that changes the status of the device.

Eric

[stusviews]

 

I think I understand now.  I'm turning on a device from the admin console expecting it to trigger the scene turning on the kpl.  So, if I wanted to have the KPL light up when I turn on a device, then I should create a program to do so.  I thought that if the device was included in the scene that it would in turn trigger the scene...

 

That's correct. Turning on a device directly affects none of that device's links/scenes, only that specific device. Otherwise you could create an infinite loop.

 

If you want all the devices in a scene to respond, control the scene.

[PhanTomiZ]

That's correct. Turning on a device directly affects none of that device's links/scenes, only that specific device. Otherwise you could create an infinite loop.

 

If you want all the devices in a scene to respond, control the scene.

If I want all my devices to show feedback on KPLs then I would need to create a scene for every device including the device and the appropriate KPL button?  That way, when I want to turn on a specific device I would be turning on instead the scene in which the device is in?  

 

Before installing my KPLs, all of my device enabling was done to the device.  But now that I've started using KPLs, I will need to change my train of thought.

 

Which brings me to the next issue which I believe I have figured, but will ask for good measure.  How about Z-Wave devices?  My two 3 way switches can be added to scenes, but only as responders.  So in this case, in order to get feedback from my KPL, I would have to create a program like the ones above?  

 

Thanks again

PhanTomiZ

[EricK]

If I want all my devices to show feedback on KPLs then I would need to create a scene for every device including the device and the appropriate KPL button? That way, when I want to turn on a specific device I would be turning on instead the scene in which the device is in?

 

Thanks again

PhanTomiZ

Yes, create a scene for all device groups that you want to respond together. On levels and ramp rates can be set for each scene controller.

If you want to turn on a specific device then you can turn on that device directly from the admin console. If you want to turn on a group of devices then turn on the scene this can be done from the admin console as well. For the bathroom fan create a scene called bathroom fan and make the switch and kpl button controllers. If you physicAlly press the kpl button or switch this will turn on both devices since they are both controllers and therefore responders of the scene. If you turn on the switch from the admin console then only the switch will turn on, not the scene. This is why the kpl button was not turning on.

Before you move on to the z wave device make sure you have this concept down.

Eric

[PhanTomiZ]

Yes, create a scene for all device groups that you want to respond together. On levels and ramp rates can be set for each scene controller.

If you want to turn on a specific device then you can turn on that device directly from the admin console. If you want to turn on a group of devices then turn on the scene this can be done from the admin console as well. For the bathroom fan create a scene called bathroom fan and make the switch and kpl button controllers. If you physicAlly press the kpl button or switch this will turn on both devices since they are both controllers and therefore responders of the scene. If you turn on the switch from the admin console then only the switch will turn on, not the scene. This is why the kpl button was not turning on.

Before you move on to the z wave device make sure you have this concept down.

Eric

If a device is in a scene with a KPL then I would prefer operating the Scene as opposed to the actual device.  I want to be able to see its status on the KPL. When I had no KPLs, I got used to toggling the individual devices and was not concerned with KPL feedback. But now I'm starting to populate my house with more KPLs, I see a need for the use of scenes. The more I play with it and get feedback from this site, the easier it's getting....

 

Thanks

[stusviews]

IMO, all control of Insteon devices should be via scenes, even if it's one device. That way, as your network grows you need only add the new device or button to existing scenes. It also makes it easy to change the settings (e.g., On-level, ramp rate) for a particular scene without affecting other scenes.

 

There are a few exceptions. There are also programs

[PhanTomiZ]

IMO, all control of Insteon devices should be via scenes, even if it's one device. That way, as your network grows you need only add the new device or button to existing scenes. It also makes it easy to change the settings (e.g., On-level, ramp rate) for a particular scene without affecting other scenes.

 

There are a few exceptions.

Yes, I believe this is my lesson learned.  I will do this...