slpelts Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Suddenly, my PLM/ISY is not responding to any of the buttons being pushed. I can programatically send out anything and switches respond. I have several programs that respond to buttons being pushed that no longer work. I have unplugged everything and restarted but nothing not sure where to start resolving this thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Is your PLM about 2 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slpelts Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Yes it is probably about 2+ years old. Is there some way to verify that it is bad? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Try in the Tools Diagnostics Tab Show PLM Link Tables. One of the early symptoms of a PLM failing is the table gets wiped out and is almost empty. Sometimes a restore will temporarily fix the issue. Another thing you may see is the LED on the side is dimmer than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 See here. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/ The capacitors last usually about 1 month past the warranty. Mine did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slpelts Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Thanks for the replies. I have a 2412S actually. I see that there are 2413S now. what is difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slpelts Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 the PLM Links Table is blank. Just want to make sure this is the problem. I can run programs from the ISY and control devices but if any of the switches are 'switched' the ISY does not detect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Thanks for the replies. I have a 2412S actually. I see that there are 2413S now. what is difference? From a functionality point of view, nothing. Its the way the ISY communicates with Insteon devices. The 2413S is the latest product that supports this capability. The 2412 has been retired for a number of years, though you might find one on ebay. They are becoming scarce, 2413 Advantages It's dual band, so it can communicate with RF devices in range and also perform powerline to RF bridging. This happens automatically, and it may free up an access point to move elsewhere on your network. I believe it supports more links to support scenes and devices. Unless you have more than ~150 devices and/or dozens and dozens of scenes with lots of devices, this increase will probably not change things for you. 2413 Disadvantages Historically high failure rate of certain components around the 2 year mark. If you look at the reviews on smarthome you'll see one after the other about this. However, I believe smarthome has been addressing this recently, so its hopeful that newer ones will last longer, and a new 2413 will be more robust. Historically, its associated with the dreaded "all on" that some users get. Some users with a certain mix of devices have all of their devices turn on at random times. Supposedly this is addressed in the most recent versions, but I don't know if that's been validated or proven wrong. I know it sounds bad, but its the only way to go right now. Smarthome is introducing a new serial hub, and UDI is also working towards the same goal. The boards inside look pretty close to the same. I think we have to count on them cleaning up their act on better electronic components that don't fail in a few years. For reference, I used a 2413U on homeseer for 3 years with no failures and no all ons. I sold it after I moved to the ISY. I have a whole house power conditioner on my panel (~$150) and I believe that has helped protect all of my electronics Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 From a functionality point of view, nothing. Its the way the ISY communicates with Insteon devices. The 2413S is the latest product that supports this capability. The 2412 has been retired for a number of years, though you might find one on ebay. They are becoming scarce, 2413 Advantages It's dual band, so it can communicate with RF devices in range and also perform powerline to RF bridging. This happens automatically, and it may free up an access point to move elsewhere on your network. I believe it supports more links to support scenes and devices. Unless you have more than ~150 devices and/or dozens and dozens of scenes with lots of devices, this increase will probably not change things for you. 2413 Disadvantages Historically high failure rate of certain components around the 2 year mark. If you look at the reviews on smarthome you'll see one after the other about this. However, I believe smarthome has been addressing this recently, so its hopeful that newer ones will last longer, and a new 2413 will be more robust. Historically, its associated with the dreaded "all on" that some users get. Some users with a certain mix of devices have all of their devices turn on at random times. Supposedly this is addressed in the most recent versions, but I don't know if that's been validated or proven wrong. I know it sounds bad, but its the only way to go right now. Smarthome is introducing a new serial hub, and UDI is also working towards the same goal. The boards inside look pretty close to the same. I think we have to count on them cleaning up their act on better electronic components that don't fail in a few years. For reference, I used a 2413U on homeseer for 3 years with no failures and no all ons. I sold it after I moved to the ISY. I have a whole house power conditioner on my panel (~$150) and I believe that has helped protect all of my electronics Paul 'Ang about. There is a big functional difference. The 2412s: Stores over 417 INSTEON Links in 32Kb of non-volatile memory Uncontrolled feed-through AC outlet other electrical devices Able to supply unregulated 12VDC power (300 mA max) for a host device The 2413s; Supports INSTEON extended messages Supports 1,000+ links Built-in dual-band technology sends and receives INSTEON RF signals Please be careful when comparing products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 If you have a 2412s that failed, it must be more than 2 years old, or you found someone with old "new" stock when you bought it. I don't know that the capacitor issue exists on the 2412s. Pretty sure it won't apply at all since the 2412s handles power differently (at the very least it has pass through power). I would suggest having ISY restore your PLM. If that works, you can take your chances that it will keep working, or you can order a new PLM, or you can split the difference and wait to see if you can hang on until UD puts out there PLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 'Ang about. There is a big functional difference. The 2412s: Stores over 417 INSTEON Links in 32Kb of non-volatile memory Uncontrolled feed-through AC outlet other electrical devices Able to supply unregulated 12VDC power (300 mA max) for a host device The 2413s; Supports INSTEON extended messages Supports 1,000+ links Built-in dual-band technology sends and receives INSTEON RF signals Please be careful when comparing products. Those are feature differences. Its ok to list them but was not my point. My response was about changes in functionality from the ISY's point of view when swapping. A direct comparison of features would be more meaningful when comparing several PLM alternatives. There is currently no other PLM alternative that the ISY can utilize, just the 2413S. I also provided an interpretation of what the number of links and dual band meant when swapping to the 2413U, but that would have required reading the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 The 12 vac out is a function and is a major difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Slower memory. Two different sized link database. 2412S 24LC32 in the small link database models. 2412S 24LC128 in the large link database later models. 2413S 24FC64 Later 2412S units had a 2016 entry link database. Though most times anything over about 800 links didn't work correctly. I actually have a few original 2412S PLMs that shipped with the daughter board from the 2414S PLC. 24LC256 memory. Unused RTC Clock chip and backup lithium cell for the RTC chip. The 2412S was built on a different main board and had a power transformer style power supply. Not a switching supply like in the 2413S. If you where using the 2412S to power your ISY controller you had to get an external power supply for power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 At the end of the day regardless of all the feature differences between PLM models. The OP is living on borrowed time and should move forward and purchase another 2413S PLM from Smarthome. There is absolutely no ETA for the UDI PLM at this point and given the OP has seen a completely wiped out link table. Its playing with fire in thinking its going to be fine in three months. It wont . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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