MWoods329 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of this device.... I have the Micro on/off module 2443-222 and I want it to control a two speed whole house fan. The fan's high speed is controlled by one load and the the fan's low speed is controlled by a different load. So, I wired each load to the module along with the correct neutral and line...but in the ISY admin console there is no option to choose which load I want to trigger. I even tried using the sense wires with the old switch as the diagram in the install instructions showed. Still didn't do anything , even when I flipped the switches. What am I missing? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 The Micro Module has two load terminals, but they are not different. The two terminals allow you to control two loads simultaneously. Note that the terminals are marked L1 and L1, not L1 and L2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWoods329 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Oh geez... I can't believe I didn't see that. Wow. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmarra Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I have the same type of whole house fan: one load wire for low speed and one load wire for high speed. I have two 2443-222 micro on/off modules, one for each load. Only one fan load wire should be connected to AC mains at a time. Is there any way to guarantee that only one micro on/off module is on at a time? I will control the modules with an ISY program, but I'm concerned that somehow both modules are on at the same time due to a missed command, etc. Is there anyway to ensure only one module is ever on at a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryfrog Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I have the same type of whole house fan: one load wire for low speed and one load wire for high speed. I have two 2443-222 micro on/off modules, one for each load. Only one fan load wire should be connected to AC mains at a time. Is there any way to guarantee that only one micro on/off module is on at a time? I will control the modules with an ISY program, but I'm concerned that somehow both modules are on at the same time due to a missed command, etc. Is there anyway to ensure only one module is ever on at a time? I don't think I would do it like this for exactly the reason you're talking about. There just isn't a way to *guarantee* that only one will be on at a time. What happens if they both are on? Do you blow a circuit breaker or start a fire? I'm trying to think of a reasonably logical way to do it... I think I'd use two micro on/off modules, but hooked to a double acting relay. The *first* on/off module would literally control on and off, feeding power to the relay or not. This gives you on/off control. The *second* would control the relay itself, off would be low and on would be high (or whatever) via the no/nc. I'm sure double acting (I'm not sure if this is the right word) ac relays exist, right? SPDT? Single pole, double throw relay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 fryfrog is correct. You can accomplish the task using a SPDT relay. S1 and S2 are Micro On/Off Modules. RY1 is a SPDT relay with a 110/120VAC coil. The NC contact connects to low speed and the NO contact to high speed. A difficulty is that the ISY won't "see" S2 unless S1 is turned on. So, you won't be able to go directly to high speed from off. BTW, switching power to an Insteon device is unusual, but doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I would wire it differently. I'd have both Insteon switches wired hot. The second switch controls the relay and the first switch controls the power to the fan. That way you will always have the status of both switches and can start up the fan in the speed you wish. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Nice improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Nice improvement Thank you, Stu. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmarra Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thanks for the great advice. Any suggestions for what to use for the SPDT relay with a 110/120VAC coil? Ideally this would be something easy to use in a junction box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thanks for the great advice. Any suggestions for what to use for the SPDT relay with a 110/120VAC coil? Ideally this would be something easy to use in a junction box.Actually you want a DPST relay. Any relay rated at 20 amps will do. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I think I didn't make my description clear, I would not wire the micro on/off modules in such a way that they don't have power. The *output* of the first one would be the *input* to the relay, not the input to the micro on/off. The relay I'm talking about would have one in and two outs. So the primary micro on/off would control power going *to* the relay itself and the second micro on/off would control what position the relay is in. A relay like this would have 5 connections, I imagine. Input, 2 outputs and 2 controls. I'm making all this shit up, but surely it has to exist, right? You'd then hook the "sense" wire of the high/low (2nd micro on/off) to your old switch (or a new one, with only 2 positions high and low). The primary micro on/off would need its *own* switch on its sense line. Or you could just do away w/ having a "physical" switch. A quick google search does turn up the existance of 120v 5 spade SPDT 15a relays. For example, http://www.alliedelec.com/schneider-electric-magnecraft-9as5a52-120/70184886/but I'm not vouching for it... I just picked logical numbers. Is your fan 110? 220? How many amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Actually you want a DPST relay. Any relay rated at 20 amps will do. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Are you sure? A DPST would switch two lines, like stereo headpones. Or the hot and neutral. Or + and - in a DC circuit. A SPDT completes a path between one of the two legs. I think the diagram you made is exactly what I was suggesting and it looks like an SPDT relay to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmarra Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yes, SPDT is correct. These relays have a common, a normally open and a normally closed. One fan load connects to the N/O and the other fan load connects to the N/C. I found the following enclosed relay: Functional Devices, Inc RIB2401B: http://www.functionaldevices.com/pdf/datasheets/RIB2401B.pdf Problem solved. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yes, SPDT is correct. These relays have a common, a normally open and a normally closed. One fan load connects to the N/O and the other fan load connects to the N/C. I found the following enclosed relay: Functional Devices, Inc RIB2401B: http://www.functionaldevices.com/pdf/datasheets/RIB2401B.pdf Problem solved. Thanks again. Whew, I'm not super great at wiring and such but I was pretty sure an SPDT is correct. Do you have a link for where you got that? I might pick one up just to have around, looks like it is perfectly designed for our use unlike the quick one I turned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Are you sure? A DPST would switch two lines, like stereo headpones. Or the hot and neutral. Or + and - in a DC circuit. A SPDT completes a path between one of the two legs. I think the diagram you made is exactly what I was suggesting and it looks like an SPDT relay to me.No, I'm not sure. You and Stu are correct. I had my head on wrong. My apologies. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 http://smile.amazon.com/Enclosed-Relay-20Amp-24Vac-120Vac/dp/B009PAPIOY/ Micro Module S1 and S2 line to line, neutral to neutral. SPDT Relay: Micro Module S1 load to yellow; fan low speed to blue, fan high speed to orange; Micro Module S2 load to black; neutral to white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 A possibly more simple way might use a SynchroLinc module to detect current is gone from the Micro modules, detecting the previously On unit is now off. Then turn on the alternate the fan micro-modules. Fan running could also be detected by ISY for confirmation. Many fan motors tolerate multiple speed energised simultaneously without problems. In which case none of this would be necessary. Manufacturers blessings or specs would be required first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 A possibly more simple way might use a SynchroLinc module to detect current is gone from the Micro modules, detecting the previously On unit is now off. Then turn on the alternate the fan micro-modules. Fan running could also be detected by ISY for confirmation. Many fan motors tolerate multiple speed energised simultaneously without problems. In which case none of this would be necessary. Manufacturers blessings or specs would be required first. The OP might be hard pressed interfacing a plugin module with a hardwired solution. Keeping in mind CEC / NEC does not allow such wiring schemes to be done in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The OP might be hard pressed interfacing a plugin module with a hardwired solution. Keeping in mind CEC / NEC does not allow such wiring schemes to be done in the first place. I noted that with the wiring, terminal blocks relays sockets required for the other solution but he has already wired in a few micromodules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 1. The SPDT relay eliminates any possibility that both speeds could be energized concurrently no matter what malfunctions. A SynchroLinc does not provide that security (although its use may be fine in other situations). 2. Wiring is not a problem. It's the combination of plug-in and wire-in devices that presents a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 A possibly more simple way might use a SynchroLinc module to detect current is gone from the Micro modules, detecting the previously On unit is now off. Then turn on the alternate the fan micro-modules. Fan running could also be detected by ISY for confirmation. Many fan motors tolerate multiple speed energised simultaneously without problems. In which case none of this would be necessary. Manufacturers blessings or specs would be required first. That is an interesting point, low usually just energizes a portion of the windings and high does all of them. So having both high and low energized would really just be high. Assuming that turned out to be true, you could just eliminate the relay. Connect one micro on/off to high and one to low. If "High" is on, fan is high. Low can be on or off w/o any impact. If low is on and high mistakenly comes on... fan just goes to high and you have to turn it off. On a keypad link, you'd just need two buttons. Group them so only one can be on at a time. Bam, done. Right? Figuring out if this is true would be a "fun" experiment where "fun" really means "oh shit, is there going to be fire?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Figuring out if this is true would be a "fun" experiment where "fun" really means "oh shit, is there going to be fire?" LMAO . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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