Yet another question on Sunset...

[Scottmichaelj]

Can anyone help me with the program of sunset or disregarding scenes changing?

 

IE I have a sunset scene - this runs similar to the MS for dark days posted by another user or by time of day. However I may turn on lights and adjust them before the sunset becomes in effect. So for example I maybe will have on an office light, then sunset in turned on and my office light goes off. Or maybe a light in the dining room or bedroom is set lower dimming level then the sunset scene turns on and brightens it. Is there anyway to adjust to leave the lights at the set scenes if they are dim or on? In the summertime hours its stays lighter longer so like right now I will be watching TV with my "TV Mode Lighting Scene" and then sunset turns on brighter so I need to hit the button again to put my lighting back into TV Mode. Kind of annoying. Can someone help me setup a better way? 

[stusviews]

AFAIK, version 5 has the ability to restore previous on-levels. But, if you have preset levels rather that using the dim/brighten feature, then you can use programs to restore the brightness setting. Here's an example:

 

I keep the walkway lights at 30% between dusk and dawn. But, if someone rings the doorbell, then the lighting goes to 100%, the front door light turns on and, 5 minutes later, the walkway lighting returns to 30% and the front door light turns off.

If
        Control 'GG / Devices / GG Doorbell-Sensor' is switched On
    And Status  'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' is not Off
 
Then
        Set 'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' Fast On
        Set 'EX / Devices / EX Front Door Light' On
        Wait  5 minutes
        Set 'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' 30%
        Set 'EX / Devices / EX Front Door Light' Off
 
Else
        Set 'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' 30%
        Set 'EX / Devices / EX Front Door Light' Off

[Scottmichaelj]

AFAIK, version 5 has the ability to restore previous on-levels. But, if you have preset levels rather that using the dim/brighten feature, then you can use programs to restore the brightness setting. Here's an example:

 

I keep the walkway lights at 30% between dusk and dawn. But, if someone rings the doorbell, then the lighting goes to 100%, the front door light turns on and, 5 minutes later, the walkway lighting returns to 30% and the front door light turns off.

If

Control 'GG / Devices / GG Doorbell-Sensor' is switched On

And Status 'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' is not Off

 

Then

Set 'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' Fast On

Set 'EX / Devices / EX Front Door Light' On

Wait 5 minutes

Set 'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' 30%

Set 'EX / Devices / EX Front Door Light' Off

 

Else

Set 'EX / Devices / EX Dusk Sensor' 30%

Set 'EX / Devices / EX Front Door Light' Off

Yeah but what happens if you sit at the front door chatting with someone more than 5 mins?

 

Maybe it would be better if I add lines for the lights with an "and" in the "IF statement" so that if the main lights in the scene are dimmed then the sunset scene just doesnt run? I may give it a try.

[stusviews]

I do have that taken care of with a RAD post mounted sensor connected to a Micro Module. Your scene needs to fit your needs

[larryllix]

Yeah but what happens if you sit at the front door chatting with someone more than 5 mins?

 

Maybe it would be better if I add lines for the lights with an "and" in the "IF statement" so that if the main lights in the scene are dimmed then the sunset scene just doesnt run? I may give it a try.

Without a MS in place the other way is to have a manual on program hat disables the automatic program with the timeout.

 

I still use an off timer in my manual override programs but set it for a few hours so lights do not get left on permanently and automatic methods are not disabled permanently.

 

Program Manual_override

If

    Control of switch is On

    Control of switch is NOT Off  <--- puts mode manually back in auto via else

 

Then

   Disable automagic program

   Set Light 100%

   Wait 2 hours

   Run (else) Manual_override program

 

Else

   Set Light Off

   Enable automagic program

   Run (then/if) automagic program <----could set up lighting to original levels instead of Off line above.

 

 

 

 

Stu has too many EXes! He needs a lot of motion sensors! 

Edited July 5, 2015 by larryllix

[Scottmichaelj]

Without a MS in place the other way is to have a manual on program hat disables the automatic program with the timeout.

 

I still use an off timer in my manual override programs but set it for a few hours so lights do not get left on permanently and automatic methods are not disabled permanently.

 

Program Manual_override

If

Control of switch is On

Control of switch is NOT Off <--- puts mode manually back in auto via else

 

Then

Disable automagic program

Set Light 100%

Wait 2 hours

Run (else) Manual_override program

 

Else

Set Light Off

Enable automagic program

Run (then/if) automagic program <----could set up lighting to original levels instead of Off line above.

 

 

 

 

Stu has too many EXes! He needs a lot of motion sensors!

So this is giving me issues still. Not 100% perfect. My problem is IF I invoke my sunset scene before the MS declares it "dark" then turn off the lights - the MS will change to dark and then run sunset. Sometimes being in Seattle a dark grey day I may turn the sunset scene on earlier in the day. Any thoughts how to fix this?

[larryllix]

So this is giving me issues still. Not 100% perfect. My problem is IF I invoke my sunset scene before the MS declares it "dark" then turn off the lights - the MS will change to dark and then run sunset. Sometimes being in Seattle a dark grey day I may turn the sunset scene on earlier in the day. Any thoughts how to fix this?

Is this back to the future?

 

Can you post your program so I can look at it?

[Scottmichaelj]

Is this back to the future?

 

Can you post your program so I can look at it?

I think we are past the future now. OCT 21 2015 07:28 - http://www.october212015.com

 

So here are my two programs. As you can see I used the same theory as you described to me before with my alarm disarmed notification. I think the issue here is that if I manually initiate the "sunset" scene the program doesn't know that it ran. So when I turn to another scene like "relaxing" and the area goes dark the MS says "hey I am dark and didn't run yet" and then turns sunset on. The reason its happening now is because of the time of the year and daylight savings being moved.

 

Thoughts? Thanks in advance for looking at this for me.

 

Sunset - (1) Time [ON] - [iD 0042][Parent 0003]

 

If

From Sunset - 3 hours

To Sunset (same day)

 

Then

Enable Program 'Sunset - (2) Inside [ON]'

Run Program 'Sunset - (2) Inside [ON]' (If)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Sunset - (2) Inside [ON] - [iD 0039][Parent 0003][Not Enabled]

 

If

Status 'Kitchen - Motion-Dusk.Dawn' is On

 

Then

Set Scene 'Sunset' On

Disable Program 'Sunset - (2) Inside [ON]'

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[larryllix]

I think since you have no Else code running you can combine the conditions into one program and not be so complicated. The time frame can just act like a filter and not trigger any code.

 

 I am not sure what the problem you are having is exactly. I assume later, another scene takes over, so no Off code is required.

 

If

        Control 'Kitchen - Motion-Dusk.Dawn' is switched On
    And

        From Sunset - 3 hours      <---- can never trigger code because first line is only true when *it* is happening
       To Sunset (same day)       <---- this will cause Else to run but since you have none no disabling is needed

Then
        Set Scene 'Sunset' On

Else
        - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Is this making any sense for you?          

Edited December 6, 2015 by larryllix

[oberkc]

Your problem may be solveable, but it may take an entirely different approach. I am unaware of any way to evoke a scene command, excluding certain devices from the scene.

 

I also am unsure the condition you want in order to exclude a given device response. Is it only when a given device is NOT OFF to you want it to to be excluded from the scene response?

 

Unfortunately, the method that is coming to mind is purely brute-force approach that will get ugly if there are a lot of devices. My idea would be to delete your current program and replace it with multiple programs, one program for each device in the scene. Each program would be the same, except the device would vary...

 

If

time is sunset - 3hrs

and status deviceX is not off

then

set deviceX to certain level

else

nothing

[larryllix]

OK some of this is coming back to me and after reading your report a dozen times I think I understand now.

 

Your grey skies are turning your MS.dark sensor on at multiple times.

Any programs based on the MS.dark sensor can be triggered multiple times per night= not wanted.

 

We need to implement the "Once and only once" logic with a enabling program and an operating program

 

Sunset - (1) Time [ON] - [iD 0042][Parent 0003]

If
     From Sunset - 3 hours
     To Sunset + 1 hour (same day)

Then
     Enable Program 'Sunset - (2) Inside [ON]'

Else

     Disable Program 'Sunset - (2) Inside [ON]'

 

Sunset - (2) Inside [ON] - [iD 0039][Parent 0003][Not Enabled]

If
     Control 'Kitchen - Motion-Dusk.Dawn' is switched On

Then
     Set Scene 'Sunset' On
     Disable Program 'Sunset - (2) Inside [ON]'       <---can never happen again until Sunset (1) says so.

Else
      - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

•  

[Scottmichaelj]

Thank you both. @oberkc I have at least 30 devices in the scene so that would be a lot of programs and really hard to always remember to add or remove a device/program if I added/remove a device from the scene.

 

@larry - thanks for the help but based on the last post it seems like that is what I have done already. I will compare but the issue is that IF I manually invoke the sunset scene before the MS senses dark then later when I turn off my lights the MS senses dusk/dark then will run the sunset scene.

 

What do you guys think of adding a variable? So if I manually invoke sunset then it changes a variable to 1 - then at midnight it sets the variable back to 0? Then add "if the variable is not 1" then run? Just brainstorming here. I would just need to add a program that if I invoke it from a KPL then change the variable.

 

Thanks guys for helping me.

[larryllix]

Thank you both. @oberkc I have at least 30 devices in the scene so that would be a lot of programs and really hard to always remember to add or remove a device/program if I added/remove a device from the scene.

 

@larry - thanks for the help but based on the last post it seems like that is what I have done already. I will compare but the issue is that IF I manually invoke the sunset scene before the MS senses dark then later when I turn off my lights the MS senses dusk/dark then will run the sunset scene.

 

What do you guys think of adding a variable? So if I manually invoke sunset then it changes a variable to 1 - then at midnight it sets the variable back to 0? Then add "if the variable is not 1" then run? Just brainstorming here. I would just need to add a program that if I invoke it from a KPL then change the variable.

 

Thanks guys for helping me.

You were close. The changes to your programs are highlighted in Red.

 

The programs should operate as a "Once and Only Once" scheme each day.

Edited December 6, 2015 by larryllix

[oberkc]

Yes, you could set up some program conditions and/or variables where the scheduled program would not run if you have already manually executed the scene, but this is does not fully respond to your original problem as I understand it.  It may, however, be a reasonable compromise.

[Scottmichaelj]

You were close. The changes to your programs are highlighted in Red.

 

The programs should operate as a "Once and Only Once" scheme

Larry - I am a bit confused. If I am manually running the scene then I am not running the program so the program wouldnt technically be "ran" therefore the program wouldnt know it was run even with the changes. Maybe instead of running the actual scene manually I should switch it to run the "program" then that with your suggested changes will fix this? Right now I am just telling my Amazon Echo "turn on sunset" and its mapped to the actual "scene" not the "program". So if I understand what your telling me, make these changes and then change all my manually sunset scenes to run the program not the scene and I should be good. Ill try and test over the next couple weeks.

[larryllix]

Larry - I am a bit confused. If I am manually running the scene then I am not running the program so the program wouldnt technically be "ran" therefore the program wouldnt know it was run even with the changes. Maybe instead of running the actual scene manually I should switch it to run the "program" then that with your suggested changes will fix this? Right now I am just telling my Amazon Echo "turn on sunset" and its mapped to the actual "scene" not the "program". So if I understand what your telling me, make these changes and then change all my manually sunset scenes to run the program not the scene and I should be good. Ill try and test over the next couple weeks.

"So this is giving me issues still. Not 100% perfect. My problem is IF I invoke my sunset scene before the MS declares it "dark" then turn off the lights - the MS will change to dark and then run sunset. Sometimes being in Seattle a dark grey day I may turn the sunset scene on earlier in the day. Any thoughts how to fix this? "

 

I guess I missed the part where you ever turned the scene ON manually and assumed it was only the manual Off that caused the restrike from the MS.dark. My  apologies.        

 

So you want once this scene has been run auto or manual for it to never be activated automatically again that day?

 

 

So...

- if you operate the scene On/Off manually at any time, that is OK =  no conditions

- if you operate the scene Off manually within an evening  time frame the MS.auto On should be ignored for the rest of the evening.

 

hmmmm.. let me think about that quirk and I'll try to get back to you.

[Scottmichaelj]

"So this is giving me issues still. Not 100% perfect. My problem is IF I invoke my sunset scene before the MS declares it "dark" then turn off the lights - the MS will change to dark and then run sunset. Sometimes being in Seattle a dark grey day I may turn the sunset scene on earlier in the day. Any thoughts how to fix this? "

 

I guess I missed the part where you ever turned the scene ON manually and assumed it was only the manual Off that caused the restrike from the MS.dark. My  apologies.        

 

So you want once this scene has been run auto or manual for it to never be activated automatically again that day?

 

 

So...

- if you operate the scene On/Off manually at any time, that is OK =  no conditions

- if you operate the scene Off manually within an evening  time frame the MS.auto On should be ignored for the rest of the evening.

 

hmmmm.. let me think about that quirk and I'll try to get back to you.

I think using your suggested changes and then making changes on my side where I run the actual SUNSET PROGRAM to turn on the lights vs the scene in my lighting section could be the fix. The only thing I am still concerned about is if I invoke the sunset program before the -3 hours before sunset. Say I turn it on at 10am, well before three hours before sunset. Not sure if this will then experience the same thing I am now still dealing with. I have no issues invoking the sunset scene from a program. I just need to change the KPL button to run from a program.

Edited December 6, 2015 by huddadudda