Teken Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) This past week end I past by a few garage sales and came upon a gentleman who had some very old Insteon Filter Lincs in a *Sold as is* pile.He indicated none of the devices worked or operated as expected. I inquired to him how much these broken device were being sold as and he indicated they we free so long as I promised not to throw them in a land fill but place them in a recycling bin should they not meet my needs. Well I have to tell you I am always up for a challenge and anything gotten for free is worth my time to figure out whats going on! Upon taking the device apart from past memory there isn't a whole lot involved with these things. All there is are three capacitors, two inductors, and a fuse.Measuring the fuse indicated it was still good and not blown open. Looking, smelling, and touching the board nothing was burnt or bursted caps?The top traces all appeared to be just fine and the connections were tight and all of the wires were showing proper continuity etc.After removing the super small Phillip's head screws from the board I was in shock to find the culprit!As can be seen there was a cold solder joint not holding down one of the inductor coils! It took me longer to heat up my soldering iron then to actually repair this one Filter Linc. As can be seen after about 2-3 minutes of waiting the job was done! Testing the unit by plugging in a portable fan showed all was well and operating perfectly. Upon taking apart the other two units they too had the same cold solder joints but on different legs of the coil. The forth one it appears at first blush one or more of the capacitors are either out of spec, dried up, or simply shorted out. I will need to get my other meter to confirm the values and go from there. Selling price of the Filter Linc is $29.99 USD which translates to $119.96 for the four units. For about 20 minutes of work and a little patience $119.96 worth of free product! Edited July 21, 2015 by Teken
Brian H Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Great find. You did indeed get a bargain. If C1, C2 or C3 where open. The AC would still pass through L1 and L2 the heavy coils. FilterLinc would not be tuned correctly. If C1 or C2 where shorted. They are in parallel with L1 or L2. Again AC should pass through them. FilterLinc would not be tuned correctly. C3 if it was shorted. You most likely would have a big blown out capacitor as it is directly across the Line to Neutral. Between the junction of L1 and L2. I doubt the 10 amp input fuse would beat the cap blowing off the board. C3 is also the one that holds the surprise charge you sometimes experience when you unplug it with no load. A high resistance resistor across C3. Would have cured the stored charge syndrome. Edited July 21, 2015 by Brian H
larryllix Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Awesome! Image the poor SOB getting four defective units from SH! Now I wonder if they were purchased - sequentially, - all together, or - each unit was sent out as a warranty replacement for the previous. Either way SH needs a kick in the Marrettes wirenuts.
Teken Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 Great find. You did indeed get a bargain. If C1, C2 or C3 where open. The AC would still pass through L1 and L2 the heavy coils. FilterLinc would not be tuned correctly. If C1 or C2 where shorted. They are in parallel with L1 or L2. Again AC should pass through them. FilterLinc would not be tuned correctly. C3 if it was shorted. You most likely would have a big blown out capacitor as it is directly across the Line to Neutral. Between the junction of L1 and L2. I doubt the 10 amp input fuse would beat the cap blowing off the board. C3 is also the one that holds the surprise charge you sometimes experience when you unplug it with no load. A high resistance resistor across C3. Would have cured the stored charge syndrome. Yes, a few of them give off quite a spark when you first plug it into the outlet when I have my netbook connected to the filter side. It doesn't always happen but its something that scares me because can you imagine you were in a room where there were explosive fumes? I literally purchased six 25 liter military style gas cans to help offset the high cost of fuel. I've been filling them up when the cost of fuel has been low due to low oil prices and it really saved me tons of cash. Not surprisingly the thieves who run the industry only let it stay low for so long! I had six of these containers full of gas in my garage for a short while before I moved them outside to a more secure and distant location because I don't like things like that in my home. Imagine if one of them leaked or the cap wasn't tight and that spark let loose when I plugged in that Filter Linc? Boooooooooooom . . . I'm going to try to take a few more pictures of the unit that is dead. Trying to figure out the value for all of the caps in these units. Afterwards source a place for them on the cheap.
Brian H Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I believe I had posted this in one of your other FilterLinc threads. http://home.comcast.net/~gafield/family/gary/electronics/X10_Filter.pdf One difference with the one I recently purchased. L1 and L2 are now one less turn but more tightly wound together. Probably the same or very close inductance as the older ones. I have also seen heavy conductors {like your L1 and L2} have poor solder joints or slowly fatigue and crack over time. Edited July 21, 2015 by Brian H
Teken Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 I believe I had posted this in one of your other FilterLinc threads. http://home.comcast.net/~gafield/family/gary/electronics/X10_Filter.pdf One difference with the one I recently purchased. L1 and L2 are now one less turn but more tightly wound together. Probably the same or very close inductance as the older ones. I have also seen heavy conductors {like your L1 and L2} have poor solder joints or slowly fatigue and crack over time. Brian H, You're a Prince! This is really going to save me some eye strain because the ink markings are quite faded on all of them. Hoping to find these on the cheap on EBAY. I don't think I am going to fool around with the forth unit and will simply replace all of the caps instead. Normally when a wire is passed through for soldering a 1/8" or smaller section of wire / solder is left behind to ensure wires don't pull out. In the ones I have the inductor wires were cut extremely close to the PCB board. Not surprised it slipped out over time due to heat, stress, and possible vibration from the unit being inserted over time into outlets.
larryllix Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Brian H, You're a Prince! This is really going to save me some eye strain because the ink markings are quite faded on all of them. Hoping to find these on the cheap on EBAY. I don't think I am going to fool around with the forth unit and will simply replace all of the caps instead. Normally when a wire is passed through for soldering a 1/8" or smaller section of wire / solder is left behind to ensure wires don't pull out. In the ones I have the inductor wires were cut extremely close to the PCB board. Not surprised it slipped out over time due to heat, stress, and possible vibration from the unit being inserted over time into outlets. When the sloppy line worker didn't clean the ends of the wires stubs the wave-solder machine didn't cause the solder to stick to the ends of the wires. I didn't see any cold solder joints, just an improperly prepared wire end that the wave of solder didn't stick to. It was shiny. You come along with your higher temperature soldering iron and burn the low temperature polyurethane/Polysol coating off the magnet wire and make the solder stick.
Teken Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 When the sloppy line worker didn't clean the ends of the wires stubs the wave-solder machine didn't cause the solder to stick to the ends of the wires. I didn't see any cold solder joints, just an improperly prepared wire end that the wave of solder didn't stick to. It was shiny. You come along with your higher temperature soldering iron and burn the low temperature polyurethane/Polysol coating off the magnet wire and make the solder stick. I wouldn't say it was a cold solder joint and agree all seemed well done. The problem was the follow up of clipping the end of the wires and it was done too close to the board. What ever wire was being held by the solder was literally at the end of the wire and not at the length of wire.
larryllix Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I wouldn't say it was a cold solder joint and agree all seemed well done. The problem was the follow up of clipping the end of the wires and it was done too close to the board. What ever wire was being held by the solder was literally at the end of the wire and not at the length of wire. Ok. Your OP stated "cold solder joint". Just a slip of the pen finger mind meaning typo attachment keyboard then! Oh. Now I see the finger you should have used!
Teken Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 Ok. Your OP stated "cold solder joint". Just a slip of the pen finger mind meaning typo attachment keyboard then! Oh. Now I see the finger you should have used! LOL, well played . . . You're correct the term cold solder joint should not have been used because in this case it was not the issue. The (my take) is that the connection was compromised when the follow up of the clipping of the wire was done too close to the board. This left very little solder to hold the heavy inductor coil to the PCB board.
larryllix Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 LOL, well played . . . You're correct the term cold solder joint should not have been used because in this case it was not the issue. The (my take) is that the connection was compromised when the follow up of the clipping of the wire was done too close to the board. This left very little solder to hold the heavy inductor coil to the PCB board. After wire clipping the component pulls back before the solder process. I can see the hole in the pad very clearly in the picture. Next time I will have to come out there and help you inspect the soldering. Will I need a parachute?
Teken Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 After wire clipping the component pulls back before the solder process. I can see the hole in the pad very clearly in the picture. Next time I will have to come out there and help you inspect the soldering. Will I need a parachute? You won't need a parachute but might need a canoe and portage about 39 minutes. Ha . . .
Brian H Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I too have seen leads trimmed back to far and either falling out of the PCB or barely catching any solder to the pad.
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