I need help with ezio8t and Insteon in general...

[EagleAye]

Ok, here is the story...

I recently got an isy 994i zw ir pro (and an isy 994i zigbee ir pro) and started using with my existing x-10 setup which I have used for years.  The isy zigbee is not hooked up yet, but will be implemented later...got a good deal on it.

The only insteon devices I own are the PLC's (2) and ordered an ezio8t, and an ezflora.  The ezflora works well...no issues.  I tried to use the ezio8t as a pool interface, with disastrous results.

The setup for the pool is...Pentair Suntouch controller, pump, sweep, and an Autelis interface for the Suntouch.  I also installed an additional relay in the Suntouch to provide contact closure when the solar is on...this is fed to an x-10 interface.
 
Everything works well except the x-10 interface with a long run to the pool equipment...kinda hit and miss.  I can control the pool with the isy, and I am trying to get a reliable interface to tell me when the pool solar is on or off...to run programming to shut down pool pump via isy/autelis.

Here is the rub...

Enter the ezio8t...I figured a dry contact would be easy, and hooked it up on input 2 per instructions.  I also was going to utilize 2 outputs on the ezio8t to close button contacts on the Suntouch controller.  Patched in 2 pairs of wires to the switches, and connected to output 1 and 2 on the ezio8t.

I have not found a way yet to momentary pulse the outputs, so I do it via programming in the isy.

Hook it up, and the input will NOT update to the isy when state changed (dry contact closure).  Troubleshot that, tried different inputs, tried grounding other inputs (which showed on correctly), tried everything...but when the input state changed, I would need to poll the ezio8t to get a change of state.  OK...I will try the SHN utility which points to simplehome.net which doesn't exist (hint hint smartenit...).  This issue MUST be something simple I am missing!

After FINALLY locating a copy of SHN Utility, and SetupSmarthomeDeviceManager3-308.exe, I install on my Netbook running Win7.  I get everything installed, and I am guessing that once the exe is installed, you don't have to run it (just loaded).  I try the SHN Utility with a NEW 2413s, and try connecting...I need to use the PLM option.  COM is OK, and it connects to the 2413s...Yeah!  I try and configure the ezio8t, and it fails on SO many levels.  I try hitting buttons, rebooting the Insteon devices factory fresh, linking, administrator rights on the computer, and even did XP compatibility...nothing works.  Frustrated, I go outside, and find my pool pump is banging on and off once a second.  Trip the breaker.  SO...at least the ezio8t got 1 message...test cycle the outputs.  All messages sent via the SHN Utility only time out after 4 tries.

I rip out the ezio8t, and go back to the x-10.

I remove the link for the ezio8t from my 1 running isy, and start bench testing with the new 2413s and the ezio8t hooked into the same extension cord.  

I try every way from Friday to communicate with the ezio8t, but nothing works.

OK...so the problems are
1. Input change on ezio8t does not update in isy until polled.
2. How to configure outputs for a 1 or 2 second pulse.
3. How does ANYONE get the SHN Utility to work, and where is any documentation (let alone the programs) that can be had.

I would VERY much like to use the ezio8t for signalling the input (solar on or off), and it easily communicated without any hiccups with the isy, but would not update without a poll...and MAY hook up outputs as originally planned, but with the way my pump was banging around, I am fearful.  One command can sure screw stuff up.  Maybe I don't need the pushbutton switch interface after all, but it did work well.

ANY input would be greatly appreciated.  

PS...Was going to post this on the forum, but I am waiting for a confirmation, so here is an e-mail.

xxxx

Update...I broke out an old xp computer and got it running to try and get SHN Utility to run.  I finally was able to get it connected (another issue was responsible) and am able to update the ezio8t to the settings I need.  The ISY even shows change of state!  All is well...until I unplug the ezio8t and go to relocate it, or unplug it and plug it back in.  ALL of the settings disappear, outputs 2, 4, 5 and 8 are on, and the inputs all show on with no change of state...same as it is doing prior to programming with SHN Utility.  When I go back into SHN Utility to see what is going on, I get the same weird numbers in multiple registers, and they change on each query.  I reprogram, and everything works and holds steady...until power is interrupted, then the same thing all over again.

I thought it may be the ISY writing something to the ezio8t, so I unplugged ALL insteon devices, and even tried it with a clean PLM and my zigbee ISY (which is new also).  Same thing, and the ISY is NOT writing anything to the ezio8t.

I have been sending e-mails and calling and trying to sign up to Smartenit's forum to get some guidance, but for the past 2 weeks, nothing!  So I continue to troubleshoot on my own, and get a little farther each time...but now I am stuck.  I am trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong that a simple fix will solve.  I can't seem to get a response from Smartenit, and cannot evan post on their forums, so I figured I would try here.

All the troubleshooting leads me to rule out the ISY, and the way the programming is lost in the ezio8t during power off leads me to believe the ezio8t is possibly bad.  Anyone have this much grief and found out later it was something simple?  Case in point...my original reason for connection trouble was not entering the mac address of the insteon ezio8t controller properly.  When I found out what it was looking for, connection problem solved, but leads to another problem.

Also...is there any organized documentation that would help out someone who is new to Insteon, SHN Utility, etc.  I have gleaned the forums and wiki of as many sites as I can find, but it is kinda hit and miss, and nothing concrete per se, and finding the actual program reminded me of my hacking days.

 

I have also aquired a couple of additional Insteon devices, (signalinc repeaters, etc) but cannot get them to be found by the isy.  I enter the mac address, tell the isy what it is, but it just will not go in or show up.  Is it supposed to?  I also tried to linc my other PLM with its mac address, but got nowhere on that one too.  Appliance modules are entered easily, and my ezflora is still working like a champ.  I am having difficulty understanding the security/connection side of Insteon...shouldn't the repeaters show up somewhere?  Shouldn't the additional plm also show?  Trying different things including pressing buttons, entering mac addresses, etc.  The units seem to work, but I sure don't see them, and I thought the 'security' aspect would require them to show somewhere..but I havn't found it yet.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated, and Thanks.
 

[LeeG]

"I have also aquired a couple of additional Insteon devices, (signalinc repeaters, etc) but cannot get them to be found by the isy. I enter the mac address, tell the isy what it is, but it just will not go in or show up. Is it supposed to? I also tried to linc my other PLM with its mac address, but got nowhere on that one too."

 

The Insteon devices have an Insteon address, xx.yy.zz.

 

Devices like the 2992-222 Range Extender and 2406H SignaLinc have no configuration so they are not added to the ISY. They function when power is applied. The ISY interfaces through one 2413S PLM connected to the ISY Serial port. There is no need or support for more than the one PLM (cannot add PLMs as individual Insteon devices to ISY).

 

When setting values with the SHN Utility is the Yellow Save Changes button used before device power is removed?

[EagleAye]

Yes, I have tried saving (yellow button) multiple times.  I will save after writing all register changes, and have tried saving after each register change.  What I am changing is...config register-set timers to second, broadcast status chg, enable output timers (write)...output timer on 1-2 to 2 seconds, 3-8 to 30 seconds or 0 seconds (write)...verify input 1-3 read Group 0, Timer 0, Act input-off, Ignore on to off-off, Transition off to on CMD1-11 CMD2-0, Transition on to off CMD1-13 CMD2-0.

 

I am still figuring out input group, timer, cmd1 and cmd2.  I usually enter all info and do a final Save Changes, disconnect communications, s/d program, and unplug ezio8t.  When I plug ezio8t back in, I will get random entries into the registers, and 3 of the outputs will be on.  The registers change on ezch subsequent scan or By the way, com port is 19200, 8n1n.

 

Would the ezio8t broadcast be wrong if I am having the isy find the ezio8t? Wouldn't it be then bound to a controller hence disabling broadcast of state change? And if that is the case, how do you force a bound ezioxx to report state change to the isy?  I never could unless I configure the ezio8t, leave it plugged in, and add it to the isy.  Sometimes the ezio8t would work properly for a bit, but would always revert back to random stuff in the registers.  I figured I would be getting closer to operational, only to have the ezio8t start acting up...start from scratch again.

 

Any thoughts?

[LeeG]

Setting up the EZIO8T and then adding to the ISY is a problem. Adding the EZIO8T to the ISY sets it up for use with the ISY which will likely alter what you have set up with the SHN Utility. Add the EZIO8T to the ISY, then make timer changes as needed. Always Read the Config Register before making changes so you do not lose what ISY requires. Do not alter Broadcast Status Change as it has been configured to have Input state changes sent to the ISY.

 

I have to make a run to the post office. Back in 30 minutes or so.

[EagleAye]

10-4...I will try again to add to ISY, then change the ezio8t, but when ezio8t is added to ISY first, all I seem to get with the SHN Utility are the random entries into the registers.  That is why I tried a 'clean' PLM and the other ISY(zigbee) that I have.  I thought the ISY was preventing something from going right in the SHN Utility, or writing something that the SHN Utility didn't like, and making the ezio8t unconfigurable at that point, but I got the same issues with my 'clean' setup.

 

I'll try it again, and see.  Like I said, it is probably something simple like me selecting 'broadcast status' checked, but will find out.  At least it is more things to try...and Thank You!

 

I will report back.

[EagleAye]

Ok...bench test is sat so far...it could have been me entering stock register values into input 1-3 which I read on a post should be group11 0 group13 0 into all 3 registers. ISY configured it a bit different for the 3 inputs.  I am going to unplug, power up, check, and move it to the pool outlet to try there.  So far, so good.

 

By the way, ISY configured the outputs to 30min, and had Broadcast State Change checked.  I changed to 30sec, Enable output timers, and changed outputs 1-2 to 2sec, output 3-8 were left at 30sec and I left Broadcast State Change checked.  I have my fingers crossed.

[LeeG]

Let us know the results. I have an EZIOT8 but it is not in the test bed at present. Could not remember if ISY checked the Broadcast option. With the Inputs linked a Broadcast command would not be expected. Each Input should send a unique On/Off command as the Input changes state.

[EagleAye]

I spent the last day bench testing, making up relays and pull resistor circuits, interfaces, and plugs.  Once I got a successful write to the ezio8t AND it held, I could continue with my implementation.  I have it installed in my pool control box, and it seems to be working and holdong it's programming.  I will let it run a while with inputs only connected, but the outputs seem all good also.

 

Damn...I have quite a few qualifications with electrical, computers, networking and programming, but this Insteon stuff about kicked me to the curb!  Steep learning curve, and I have only scratched the surface.  If anyone has questions about my initial trials and tribulations, I will gladly go over what I fought against, and found out.  I just don't know if it is 'Right" yet, but it is close and works so far.  It is a bit difficult to find what your looking for, alot of different sites, and alot of different info (if at all).

 

The Insteon site just sucks for documentation and most things have nearly none.  Smartenit seems like they are on the same path.  Not trying to slam, but just give us more than a simple 1 page handout that says plug it in, and enjoy!  If I could have found a bit more documentation, I wouldn't have spent the last 2 weeks poking at it blindly, and waiting for a call or email to be returned!  I am still waiting for a call or email, and I STILL cannot post on Smartenit's forums because they have not yet responded to my request.  Perhaps they don't want me on there, calling things like I see them!

 

I cannot thank you enough LeeG for the fast response, and quick follow ups!  It got me over a maddening hump and allowed my quest to continue fruitfully!  The 'cylindrical file' was looking real good for the ezio8t, but it cost too damned much to heave it across the room! 

 

I will continue live testing and check reliability.  I have been using x-10 for many years, and have it fun and functional, but I am hoping with Insteon, it can be far more reliable, and implement on more 'mission critical' systems.  No life support, but you get the idea.  Steep learning curve with Z-Wave also, but it is nice to have 3-4 different protocols playing together nicely!

 

The quest continues, and if anyone has some good sites to study, an organized list would be helpful for people.

 

Thanks again!

[LeeG]

Thanks for posting back your progress. Appreciate your comment. Over time I hope you find Insteon as useful as most of us have.

[EagleAye]

I spoke too soon...Brought the laptop out back to continue testing...the ezio8t is showing output 2 on, and not updating the inputs...they appear random.  When I turn off output 2, output 1 goes on.  These are the same symptoms that I went through when the ezio8t would not hold it's programming.

 

I will connect via SHN Utility, and have a look.  Bummer...I thought I had a good head of steam going.

 

Time to bang at it again.

 

I'll keep posting what I am seeing, and find out.

 

It did work for a bit in the installed location (I think).

[LeeG]

Suggest running Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Trace the commands and responses so that actual EZIO8T information can be analyzed.

[EagleAye]

I will give that a try also...I'll try anything.  Checked the config of the ezio8t in place (at the pool) and all registers appear the same.  When I open isy, it shows output2 is on (it is on a 30sec timer, so should be off almost always), and inputs are the wrong state.  I turn off output2, and output1 then shows on.  I do a query on the first output (which queries all outputs and inputs) and the states will show correct (so far).

 

Why on earth would isy open with the wrong states and need a query?  And...the inputs seem to auto-update at change of state, but have shown wrong until a unit query.  Also, SHN Utility shows 'broadcast state' is still checked.  I figure the ezio8t is 'bound' to the isy, and this 'broadcast state' item is only supposed to work if the ezio8t is not bound to anything. confused.

[LeeG]

I suspect the pool location has marginal comm making information incorrect. The Event Trace at LEVEL 3 wll show commands issued, how many attempts command required to get a response and what that response was/is. It is not uncommon for a distant or opposite 120v leg KPL to get out of synch.

 

Could be a defective device but that is way down the list of possibilities. I'll put my EZIO8T back in the test bed so I can see command flow/response of an actual EZIO8T device.

 

Post the LEVEL 3 event trace when you get one.

[EagleAye]

Tried one Level3, but didn't get much.  I am logging an additional one on my mainframe, and it is getting time for things to start happening.  I can post the first log, but even I don't see much, and I don't quite get the level3 stuff...yet.  First time I have looked at one.

[EagleAye]

I have a couple of other dumps, but am having a spotty z-wave connection issue, so I got this one.  Cycled the pool pump on and off a couple of times, ezio8t is 38.7b.d8, and responded correctly.  I also have 2 insteon boosterlinc's..one near the isy, the other upstairs overlooking the pool. it doesn't appear as if they are needed or necessary for coms.  Not much in this dump, but I am logging on the mainframe.

 

what are the hops? Is that the boosterlincs?

 

Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 00.00.09 CF 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [std-Group   ] 38.7B.D8-->Group=9, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [  38 7B D8 9]      DOF   0
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [  38 7B D8 9]       ST   0
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 39.01.1A 45 13 09    LTOFFRR(09)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [std-Cleanup ] 38.7B.D8-->ISY/PLM Group=9, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:51:50 : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:07 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 00.00.09 CF 11 00    LTONRR (00)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:07 : [std-Group   ] 38.7B.D8-->Group=9, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:07 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:07 : [  38 7B D8 9]      DON   0
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:07 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:07 : [  38 7B D8 9]       ST 255
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:08 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 39.01.1A 45 11 09    LTONRR (09)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:08 : [std-Cleanup ] 38.7B.D8-->ISY/PLM Group=9, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:08 : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 00.00.09 CF 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [std-Group   ] 38.7B.D8-->Group=9, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [  38 7B D8 9]      DOF   0
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [  38 7B D8 9]       ST   0
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 39.01.1A 45 13 09    LTOFFRR(09)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [std-Cleanup ] 38.7B.D8-->ISY/PLM Group=9, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:52:57 : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 00.00.09 CF 11 00    LTONRR (00)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [std-Group   ] 38.7B.D8-->Group=9, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [  38 7B D8 9]      DON   0
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [38 7B D8 9] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [  38 7B D8 9]       ST 255
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 38.7B.D8 39.01.1A 45 11 09    LTONRR (09)
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [std-Cleanup ] 38.7B.D8-->ISY/PLM Group=9, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1
Sat 08/01/2015 20:53:24 : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.
 

[LeeG]

The event trace shows EZIO8T Input 1 (Group 9) being turned Off, then On, Then Off, Then On. The Insteon traffic shows nothing of interest as far as retry is concerned. No Query of the EZIO8T.

 

Hops Left reflects how many devices had to repeat message to arrive at PLM. No indication of comm issue while this trace was collected.