Setting of Multiple KPL Buttons in Scene

[rob9]

I'd like to be able to have complete control of multiple buttons of a single Keypadlinc in a single scene. With ISY-99i firmware version 2.6.8, I can have mutiple buttons of a single KPL in a single scene, but I cannot control the action of the other button. For example, I have a scene that sets many lights including a light controlled by another button on that KPL. The light controlled by the other KPL button is to be turned off in that scene. In the scene, I want the other button to turn off when I turn on the button that controls the scene.

 

So far, the only way I have been able to set that up is to use HouseLinc 2 software. This is a new feature of version 2 that allows you to set up buttons on a KPL to follow another button on the KPL. This capability is loaded to the network as a scene and is not program control. This lets me know that the KPL is capable of this. I'd prefer not to have to use HouseLinc and rely instead entirely on the ISY.

 

I know that I can write a separate program in the ISY to do this, but would prefer to use the independent standalone control capability of the Insteon network whenever it is capable of it.

 

Thanks, Rob

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Rob,

 

We've had this feature since 2.6.5 ... the only issue is that instead of OFF you should use 2% for the on level (which in effect turns the device off). Please let me know if this works.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I'd like to be able to have complete control of multiple buttons of a single Keypadlinc in a single scene. With ISY-99i firmware version 2.6.8, I can have mutiple buttons of a single KPL in a single scene, but I cannot control the action of the other button. For example, I have a scene that sets many lights including a light controlled by another button on that KPL. The light controlled by the other KPL button is to be turned off in that scene. In the scene, I want the other button to turn off when I turn on the button that controls the scene.

 

So far, the only way I have been able to set that up is to use HouseLinc 2 software. This is a new feature of version 2 that allows you to set up buttons on a KPL to follow another button on the KPL. This capability is loaded to the network as a scene and is not program control. This lets me know that the KPL is capable of this. I'd prefer not to have to use HouseLinc and rely instead entirely on the ISY.

 

I know that I can write a separate program in the ISY to do this, but would prefer to use the independent standalone control capability of the Insteon network whenever it is capable of it.

 

Thanks, Rob

[rob9]

I re-looked at the scenes and I had the root issue wrong. It is not an issue of the two buttons on the same KPL. The issue is that only the load button of the KPL is shown in the list to be controlled for the scene (lower right hand part of screen when scene is shown). Buttons that are not the load button for a KPL are not in the list and cannot be controlled, on or off or 2%. Thanks, Rob.

 

Hi Rob,

 

We've had this feature since 2.6.5 ... the only issue is that instead of OFF you should use 2% for the on level (which in effect turns the device off). Please let me know if this works.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I'd like to be able to have complete control of multiple buttons of a single Keypadlinc in a single scene. With ISY-99i firmware version 2.6.8, I can have mutiple buttons of a single KPL in a single scene, but I cannot control the action of the other button. For example, I have a scene that sets many lights including a light controlled by another button on that KPL. The light controlled by the other KPL button is to be turned off in that scene. In the scene, I want the other button to turn off when I turn on the button that controls the scene.

 

So far, the only way I have been able to set that up is to use HouseLinc 2 software. This is a new feature of version 2 that allows you to set up buttons on a KPL to follow another button on the KPL. This capability is loaded to the network as a scene and is not program control. This lets me know that the KPL is capable of this. I'd prefer not to have to use HouseLinc and rely instead entirely on the ISY.

 

I know that I can write a separate program in the ISY to do this, but would prefer to use the independent standalone control capability of the Insteon network whenever it is capable of it.

 

Thanks, Rob

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Rob,

 

Perhaps you are talking about mutual exclusivity or grouping? The sub-buttons do not have any state beyond on/off and thus they cannot be controlled as in a scene. This said, however, you can create button groupings or exclusivity to achieve the same.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I re-looked at the scenes and I had the root issue wrong. It is not an issue of the two buttons on the same KPL. The issue is that only the load button of the KPL is shown in the list to be controlled for the scene (lower right hand part of screen when scene is shown). Buttons that are not the load button for a KPL are not in the list and cannot be controlled, on or off or 2%. Thanks, Rob.

 

Hi Rob,

 

We've had this feature since 2.6.5 ... the only issue is that instead of OFF you should use 2% for the on level (which in effect turns the device off). Please let me know if this works.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I'd like to be able to have complete control of multiple buttons of a single Keypadlinc in a single scene. With ISY-99i firmware version 2.6.8, I can have mutiple buttons of a single KPL in a single scene, but I cannot control the action of the other button. For example, I have a scene that sets many lights including a light controlled by another button on that KPL. The light controlled by the other KPL button is to be turned off in that scene. In the scene, I want the other button to turn off when I turn on the button that controls the scene.

 

So far, the only way I have been able to set that up is to use HouseLinc 2 software. This is a new feature of version 2 that allows you to set up buttons on a KPL to follow another button on the KPL. This capability is loaded to the network as a scene and is not program control. This lets me know that the KPL is capable of this. I'd prefer not to have to use HouseLinc and rely instead entirely on the ISY.

 

I know that I can write a separate program in the ISY to do this, but would prefer to use the independent standalone control capability of the Insteon network whenever it is capable of it.

 

Thanks, Rob

[rob9]

If I understand mutual exclusivity or grouping of KPL buttons correctly, that is not what I need. Also, for buttons that are not a load, all I need is to control on/off and not brightness level. Here is an example of situation that I am talking about:

 

KPL Button B (non-load) is part of scene with Main Kitchen Light

A switchlinc dimmer is used to control the Main Kitchen Light load

KPL Button D Controls Special Lighting Scene

 

I want to be able to control the Main Kitchen Light using Button B to turn the light on or off. Nothing should happen to Button D when I do this. This is why I'm saying the mutual exclusivity or grouping (of Button B with Button D) is not what is needed.

 

When I use Button D to activate the Special Lighting Scene, I want the Main Kitchen Light to go off and I want Button B to go off. There are lots of other lights that are part of this scene, but they are not material to this issue. There is no issue in getting the Main Kitchen Light to go off (load controled by a switchlinc), but I don't know how to get Button B to go off using native Insteon set up using ISY-99i.

 

Thanks for the assistance, Rob.

 

 

Hi Rob,

 

Perhaps you are talking about mutual exclusivity or grouping? The sub-buttons do not have any state beyond on/off and thus they cannot be controlled as in a scene. This said, however, you can create button groupings or exclusivity to achieve the same.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I re-looked at the scenes and I had the root issue wrong. It is not an issue of the two buttons on the same KPL. The issue is that only the load button of the KPL is shown in the list to be controlled for the scene (lower right hand part of screen when scene is shown). Buttons that are not the load button for a KPL are not in the list and cannot be controlled, on or off or 2%. Thanks, Rob.

 

Hi Rob,

 

We've had this feature since 2.6.5 ... the only issue is that instead of OFF you should use 2% for the on level (which in effect turns the device off). Please let me know if this works.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I'd like to be able to have complete control of multiple buttons of a single Keypadlinc in a single scene. With ISY-99i firmware version 2.6.8, I can have mutiple buttons of a single KPL in a single scene, but I cannot control the action of the other button. For example, I have a scene that sets many lights including a light controlled by another button on that KPL. The light controlled by the other KPL button is to be turned off in that scene. In the scene, I want the other button to turn off when I turn on the button that controls the scene.

 

So far, the only way I have been able to set that up is to use HouseLinc 2 software. This is a new feature of version 2 that allows you to set up buttons on a KPL to follow another button on the KPL. This capability is loaded to the network as a scene and is not program control. This lets me know that the KPL is capable of this. I'd prefer not to have to use HouseLinc and rely instead entirely on the ISY.

 

I know that I can write a separate program in the ISY to do this, but would prefer to use the independent standalone control capability of the Insteon network whenever it is capable of it.

 

Thanks, Rob

[Michel Kohanim]

Rob,

 

Based on your requirement:

1. Make button D Non-Toggle Off (it always sends off)

2. Scene 1, button D controller, Button B and Kitchen lights responders

3. Scene 2, button B controller, kitchen lights responders

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

If I understand mutual exclusivity or grouping of KPL buttons correctly, that is not what I need. Also, for buttons that are not a load, all I need is to control on/off and not brightness level. Here is an example of situation that I am talking about:

 

KPL Button B (non-load) is part of scene with Main Kitchen Light

A switchlinc dimmer is used to control the Main Kitchen Light load

KPL Button D Controls Special Lighting Scene

 

I want to be able to control the Main Kitchen Light using Button B to turn the light on or off. Nothing should happen to Button D when I do this. This is why I'm saying the mutual exclusivity or grouping (of Button B with Button D) is not what is needed.

 

When I use Button D to activate the Special Lighting Scene, I want the Main Kitchen Light to go off and I want Button B to go off. There are lots of other lights that are part of this scene, but they are not material to this issue. There is no issue in getting the Main Kitchen Light to go off (load controled by a switchlinc), but I don't know how to get Button B to go off using native Insteon set up using ISY-99i.

 

Thanks for the assistance, Rob.

 

[rob9]

Michel, I appreciate your assisting me with this. I see what you are doing. There is a bit more detail to Scene 1.

 

Two additional challenges:

 

1) Scene 1 has two stages. On sets the various lights. Off turns all the lights of the Scene off.

 

2) There is a third light controlled by the KPL as part of this scene. This light is turned on when button D is turned on.

 

I wasn't having any issues getting the above two items to work with button D as toggle on/off, but don't see how to do it if button D is set as non-toggle off.

 

Thanks for helping me work through this. I think this is the last thing I need solved to be able to eliminate the need for HouseLinc2. That is a goal of mine.

 

Rob,

 

Based on your requirement:

1. Make button D Non-Toggle Off (it always sends off)

2. Scene 1, button D controller, Button B and Kitchen lights responders

3. Scene 2, button B controller, kitchen lights responders

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

If I understand mutual exclusivity or grouping of KPL buttons correctly, that is not what I need. Also, for buttons that are not a load, all I need is to control on/off and not brightness level. Here is an example of situation that I am talking about:

 

KPL Button B (non-load) is part of scene with Main Kitchen Light

A switchlinc dimmer is used to control the Main Kitchen Light load

KPL Button D Controls Special Lighting Scene

 

I want to be able to control the Main Kitchen Light using Button B to turn the light on or off. Nothing should happen to Button D when I do this. This is why I'm saying the mutual exclusivity or grouping (of Button B with Button D) is not what is needed.

 

When I use Button D to activate the Special Lighting Scene, I want the Main Kitchen Light to go off and I want Button B to go off. There are lots of other lights that are part of this scene, but they are not material to this issue. There is no issue in getting the Main Kitchen Light to go off (load controled by a switchlinc), but I don't know how to get Button B to go off using native Insteon set up using ISY-99i.

 

Thanks for the assistance, Rob.

 

[Algorithm]

... Also, for buttons that are not a load, all I need is to control on/off and not brightness level. Here is an example of situation that I am talking about:

 

KPL Button B (non-load) is part of scene with Main Kitchen Light

A switchlinc dimmer is used to control the Main Kitchen Light load

KPL Button D Controls Special Lighting Scene

 

I want to be able to control the Main Kitchen Light using Button B to turn the light on or off. Nothing should happen to Button D when I do this...

 

When I use Button D to activate the Special Lighting Scene, I want the Main Kitchen Light to go off and I want Button B to go off. There are lots of other lights that are part of this scene, but they are not material to this issue.

Except that, if I understand correctly, you want some of these other lights to turn on when the scene is activated.

 

There is no issue in getting the Main Kitchen Light to go off (load controled by a switchlinc), but I don't know how to get Button B to go off using native Insteon set up using ISY-99i.

And that is exactly the problem. You can have a scene turn some load devices on, and at the same time turn other load devices off by setting those devices' on-level to zero (which is the same as off).

 

Unfortunately, a KPL secondary button has no on-level associated with it, so when it is a member of a scene its LED will simply go to the state of the command issued; on or off. Since your button D is sending an On command, you can have the Main Kitchen Light turn off by giving it an on-level of zero, but the button B will always turn on when given an On command, because it does not understand on-level.

 

So, to have button B turn off, you will need to take it out of the button D scene, and place it into a scene by itself as a responder. Then use a program triggered by the button D scene, to set the button B scene off.

 

So far, the only way I have been able to set that up is to use HouseLinc 2 software. This is a new feature of version 2 that allows you to set up buttons on a KPL to follow another button on the KPL. This capability is loaded to the network as a scene and is not program control. This lets me know that the KPL is capable of this. I'd prefer not to have to use HouseLinc and rely instead entirely on the ISY.

This is very interesting. Can you tell us a little more about it?

[Michel Kohanim]

rob9,

 

My pleasure! As a workaround, please do be kind enough to do what Darrell suggests. As we get deeper into i2 capabilities, I am sure we'll figure out how to do this natively. I know for a fact that there's a bitmap in KPLs which allow to do this; the only problem is that [unlike SH] we are not privy to "which" devices support this function and using what mechanism.

 

Thanks so very much for bringing this to our attention,

With kind regards,

Michel

[rob9]

Darrell, thanks for your help.

 

Regarding the HouseLinc 2 control of KPL buttons, I don't have any technical information, but I can tell you what can be controlled. Independently for each KPL button, other KPL buttons can be set as "responders" to either turn off or follow. Multiple KPL buttons can be responders and the setting for each button is independent of the other. A button that is a responder may also be a "controller." Hope that helps.

 

Rob

 

 

 

So far, the only way I have been able to set that up is to use HouseLinc 2 software. This is a new feature of version 2 that allows you to set up buttons on a KPL to follow another button on the KPL. This capability is loaded to the network as a scene and is not program control. This lets me know that the KPL is capable of this. I'd prefer not to have to use HouseLinc and rely instead entirely on the ISY.

This is very interesting. Can you tell us a little more about it?

[Algorithm]

Regarding the HouseLinc 2 control of KPL buttons, I don't have any technical information, but I can tell you what can be controlled. Independently for each KPL button, other KPL buttons can be set as "responders" to either turn off or follow. Multiple KPL buttons can be responders and the setting for each button is independent of the other. A button that is a responder may also be a "controller." Hope that helps.

Rob, thanks so much for that information. Those sound like very useful features. If HouseLinc2 can control them, then so should other controllers be able, once the required i2 details are figured out. I'm so glad Michel has that under control.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Rob/Darrell,

 

We can do the same shortly after we get i2 support rolled out.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Regarding the HouseLinc 2 control of KPL buttons, I don't have any technical information, but I can tell you what can be controlled. Independently for each KPL button, other KPL buttons can be set as "responders" to either turn off or follow. Multiple KPL buttons can be responders and the setting for each button is independent of the other. A button that is a responder may also be a "controller." Hope that helps.

Rob, thanks so much for that information. Those sound like very useful features. If HouseLinc2 can control them, then so should other controllers be able, once the required i2 details are figured out. I'm so glad Michel has that under control.

[rob9]

Michel, just following up from an old issue with KPLs. Has this been resolved?

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

Hi Rob/Darrell,

 

We can do the same shortly after we get i2 support rolled out.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Regarding the HouseLinc 2 control of KPL buttons, I don't have any technical information, but I can tell you what can be controlled. Independently for each KPL button, other KPL buttons can be set as "responders" to either turn off or follow. Multiple KPL buttons can be responders and the setting for each button is independent of the other. A button that is a responder may also be a "controller." Hope that helps.

Rob, thanks so much for that information. Those sound like very useful features. If HouseLinc2 can control them, then so should other controllers be able, once the required i2 details are figured out. I'm so glad Michel has that under control.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi rob9,

 

Have you recently checked our Admin Console? You can now drop KPL buttons into a scene and they will follow one another. You can also use Mutex to create Mutex between buttons.

 

What cannot be done right now is independent configuration of the buttons. For instance, you cannot have A be mutex of B but B NOT be mutex of A. That's in the pipelines with low priority.

 

With kind regards,

Michel