bktong Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I have a pretty big installation with Insteon at my house and running the latest official ISY version (4.2.30). Only recently I have a few switches not changing the Status when they are triggered on a scene. Here is the situation: When a scene is triggered ON and the actual device turns on the light but the status does not changed in ISY. So, if a program depends on the status change of the device, the program will not run. This happens when the device is not CONTROL to turn on, press the ON button on the device. For example, I press the F button on a keypad that is a scene with a SwitchLinc device, the F key and the device turn on but when I check the status on ISY, the SwitchLinc device shows OFF. Any programs depend on the status of ON with the SwitchLinc device do not get triggered. When I do a query on the SwitchLinc in ISY, it would detect and change the status to ON. Thanks. bktong Link to comment
bipto Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'm sure others will chime in here, but I was seeing the same symptoms a couple months back and LeeG was kind enough to help me through it. See the following thread: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16137-control-events-not-firing-help/?p=139537 Turned out to be a dying PLM which had "lost" links to the devices in question... Good luck! Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 If the PLM is a 2413S that is 2 years old they have capacitor issues which can result in lost link records in the PLM. First, is the F KPL key showing On in the Admin Console display and the SwitchLinc is showing Off? If this is the case it is not a PLM issue. Link to comment
stusviews Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Until and if you get this "fixed," here's a workaround: If F button pressed Then query SwitchLinc Link to comment
bktong Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Lee, Even if I press the F KPL to off which triggers the SwitchLinc to off, the SwitchLinc AND the F KPL show ON status in the Admin Console. I then do a query in both devices, the devices will then show off status. Another similar situation is with a motion...the motion would trigger the switch and a key in KPL to come on, but the Admin Console show the SwitchLinc to be off until I query it. Perhaps it is a older version of the MotionLinc because ISY does not see its status in the Admin Console. I can't do.. If Motion-Sensor is On then query SwitchLinc because ISY doesn't see the Motion-Sensor coming On (Blank in Admin Console) but the scene devices do trigger to come ON. I have another newer MotionLinc that does show ON status all the time. Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Try a File | Restore Modem (PLM) which will rebuild the PLM link database. Link to comment
bktong Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Lee, I will do that when I get home tonight. Should I do it on a regular basis...every 6 months? What if my device is older than 2 years which I think it is? Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If the PLM is a 2413S and over 2 years old and it is having link record problems I would replace it. I have some 2413S PLMs that are that old and have never had link record problems. At this point the File | Restore Modem (PLM) is a debug tool to see if the issue is related to PLM link records. The problem could be a comm issue where a coupling device has failed or was moved or unplugged for some reason. Need to know the results of the Restore Modem before proceeding with the next steps. Link to comment
bktong Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 I restored the Modem and it seems to be working better. Need to do additional testing in the next few days. I purchased my ISY device back in June 2013 but not sure the age of the PLM labelled v1.0. How can I tell? Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Click on Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status. The value after the PLM Insteon address is the PLM firmware level. Link to comment
stusviews Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I purchased my ISY device back in June 2013 but not sure the age of the PLM labelled v1.0. How can I tell? There's a four digit number on the white label in back of the PLM indicating the week and the year. There is not uniformity as to which pair of digits, year or week, comes first, but for most dates it's obvious. Link to comment
bktong Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Thanks. The label shows 0931. Link to comment
stusviews Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Could be the 9th week of 1931 or the 31st week of 2009. In any case, the PLM is elderly Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 That could be a 2412S PLM with a manufacture date in 2009. Has anyone reported power supply (capacitor) issues with the 2412S? Note: I did not think the 2413S was that old but with a hardware level of v1.0 that could be an early 2413S. If that is a 2413S I would get a new 2413S and keep it on hand. Link to comment
bktong Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 It is a 2413S model....clearly labelled. Did more testing this morning and the results are still showing issues. Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 If the PLM has all the link records it should have then look for another source of symptom. Coupling devices not working, something generating noise, absorbing Insteon signal. Link to comment
bktong Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Lee, I've continued to test this weekend. Here is what I notice. All scenes are working as long as pressing one of the scene buttons (except for motion triggered, this is a different problem). If I trigger ON/OFF via Admin Console, the actual wired switch will not turn to the desire result but the Admin Console shows the switch has been triggered (On to Off, Off to On) but all the other (non-wired) indicator buttons (KPL) that are part of the scene do come on and off reliably. Some will triggered to the desire result after several tries through the Admin Console. It is happening to multiple "locations" throughout the house. Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 If a Scene Responder reacts intermittently when Scene turned On/Off with Admin Console the PLM is not missing a link record for that device. PLM link records would not be intermittent. That sounds like an Insteon comm issue. A Scene Responder that never reacts through the Admin Console could be a missing PLM link record or a comm issue. Link to comment
Javi Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Lee, I've continued to test this weekend. Here is what I notice. All scenes are working as long as pressing one of the scene buttons (except for motion triggered, this is a different problem). If I trigger ON/OFF via Admin Console, the actual wired switch will not turn to the desire result but the Admin Console shows the switch has been triggered (On to Off, Off to On) but all the other (non-wired) indicator buttons (KPL) that are part of the scene do come on and off reliably. Some will triggered to the desire result after several tries through the Admin Console. It is happening to multiple "locations" throughout the house. I have been having same issue for months now, at first I thought is was a communication issue because I have an older home with metal conduit and boxes. I finally had time to test this and it is the same. I can make a rest request to turn on a scene and it may not turn on, it will report in the Admin console as on (scene and devices) even though it is off, If I resend the "ON" command the scene will NEVER turn on until the Off command is sent and the ON command is resent, however if I send the ON command to the device (not the scene) the device will turn on even if it is shows On in the Admin Console. Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Javi The ISY will send consecutive Scene On commands with the Admin Console. Here is an event trace of Scene 94 being turned On three times in a row. First Scene On Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 94 CF 11 00 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.94 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 B7 2A 1] [CLISPH] [56] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 14 B7 2A 1] CLISPH 56 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 B7 2A 1] [CLISPC] [156] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 14 B7 2A 1] CLISPC 156 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 B7 2A 1] [CLIMD] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 14 B7 2A 1] CLIMD 1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [15 9A F9 5] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 15 9A F9 5] ST 255 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [15 9A F9 6] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 15 9A F9 6] ST 255 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.B7.2A 22.80.0B 0B 70 01 (01) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [std-Direct ] 14.B7.2A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 B7 2A 0F 6A 20 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.B7.2A 0F 6A 20 06 (20) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:08 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.B7.2A 22.80.0B 2B 6A 38 (38) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:08 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.B7.2A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Second Scene On Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:13 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 94 CF 11 00 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:13 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.94 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:14 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.B7.2A 22.80.0B 0B 71 4E (4E) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:14 PM : [std-Direct ] 14.B7.2A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Third Scene On Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:33 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 94 CF 11 00 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:33 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.94 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) A REST command should do the same thing. Can you post the REST command Link to comment
Javi Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Hi Lee, This also happens when I press a button on the keypad link which is in a scene. The ISY admin console reports Items as off even though they are still on. Below is the log from me pressing the keypad On then Off (which worked fine) then On then Off (at which point one of the devices in the scene stays On). The Device which is On is reported as off in the admin console. I could not get the same behavior today (that I isolated yesterday) though an http get action. However this also happens when I trigger my lawn lights scene by a program, at times some of the devices turn on others do not but are reported as on in the admin console. If I try to turn on the scene with an http get action (voice control from phone) it will not turn on, unless I turn the scene off first. This was happening until I added the devices (contained in the scene) into the program along with the scene. I have this week off of work so I will remove the devices from the program above, maybe sometime this week the scene will not trigger and I can capture the log when I send the http get request Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 00.00.04 CF 11 00 LTONRR (00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->Group=4, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] DON 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [21 3F 90 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [ 21 3F 90 1] ST 255 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [D2D-CMP 0034] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> false Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [D2D-CMP 0035] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] ST 255 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2D 1D 7F 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [ 2D 1D 7F 1] ST 255 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 11.00.04 CF 06 00 (00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->11.00.04, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:05 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 00.00.04 CF 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->Group=4, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] DOF 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [21 3F 90 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [ 21 3F 90 1] ST 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [D2D-CMP 0034] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [D2D-CMP 0035] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) --> false Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] ST 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2D 1D 7F 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [ 2D 1D 7F 1] ST 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 13.00.04 CF 06 00 (00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->13.00.04, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:06 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 00.00.04 CF 11 00 LTONRR (00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->Group=4, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] DON 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [21 3F 90 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [ 21 3F 90 1] ST 255 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [D2D-CMP 0034] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> false Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [D2D-CMP 0035] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] ST 255 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2D 1D 7F 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [ 2D 1D 7F 1] ST 255 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 11.00.04 CF 06 00 (00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->11.00.04, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:09 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 00.00.04 CF 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->Group=4, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] DOF 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [21 3F 90 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [ 21 3F 90 1] ST 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [D2D-CMP 0034] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [D2D-CMP 0035] STS [21 3F 90 1] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) --> false Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 8F C2 4] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [ 22 8F C2 4] ST 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2D 1D 7F 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [ 2D 1D 7F 1] ST 0 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8F.C2 13.00.04 CF 06 00 (00) Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [std-Group ] 22.8F.C2-->13.00.04, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sun 08/30/2015 12:49:10 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. It does seem that the ISY is capturing all the button presses so maybe there is a problem with Insteon Scenes and the PLM reporting the scenes. My PLM failed last December and was about a year and a half old so Smarthome sent me a replacement after I returned the defective item. This happened on Christmas Eve so I had to order a new One Next day Air or be without for at least a week because of the shipping schedule after christmas. The new PLM is the one I have installed and I still have the replacement as a backup....This problem has been consistent with both the old and new PLM which was why I thought it was a communication issue, but I recently realized that this problem only happens to devices triggered by a scene. I have a filterlink and have tried placing it on different equipment and moving the ISY and PLM to another location but the problem continued. Any help would be appreciated, Javier Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 A Scene invoked by the PLM (by Program, Admin Console, device), the ISY has no actual device response information. The devices which are marked On/Off are based on the Scene definition, not from actual device responses. A device that is marked On based on Scene definition but failed to actually turn On is not known by the PLM nor the ISY. Same with a Scene initiated by a device although the device that initiated the Scene would know. A device issues a different Insteon command sequence so the device knows each responder device response but these device responses are not routed to the PLM by Insteon. The PLM initiated Scene is done with a different command sequence. That is why a device initiated Scene knows about its responders and the PLM does not. When responders do not actually react to a Scene there is a comm issue. The only time the PLM/ISY gets a device response is when a Direct command is issued. Link to comment
Javi Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Thanks LeeG, I guess I'll have to look into the communication issue again, It just seems odd that this only happens when turning scenes on or off and I do not have the same communication issue when I do the device only. Anyway now that I have figured out that it is the scenes I can write a program to trigger devices when a keypad is pressed or add devices to the program containing the scenes, I have already changed my voice commands (http get) to send to each device instead of the scene because it was annoying when it would only turn off/on some of the devices and then I would have to reverse the desired command to reissue the desired command. Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Verify the coupling devices are working, on opposite 120v legs and reachable by PLM. PLM reachable is for Scenes initiated by Programs. Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Javi If interested here is the technical reason Direct commands and Scenes are different. Here is a Direct On to an ApplianceLinc. Note the 02 50 Inbound message from ApplianceLinc that indicates it saw the On command and sent back an ACK. Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 13 08 1B 0F 11 FF Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.08.1B 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 13.08.1B 22.80.0B 2B 11 FE LTONRR (FE) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 13.08.1B-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [13 8 1B 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [ 13 8 1B 1] ST 255 Here is a Scene On to the same ApplianceLinc. Note the ISY marks it On (ST 255) but there is no 02 50 Inbound message. The ISY marks it On because that is what the Scene should do, not that the ISY has any response from device (no 02 50 message) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 92 CF 11 00 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.92 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [13 8 1B 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [ 13 8 1B 1] ST 255 Link to comment
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