LeeG Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 satwar The white sticker contains the "hardware" level of PLM (v1.0). It was manufactured in week 31 of 2009 (0931). The v.92 is the PLM "firmware" level. It would be a good idea to do a File | Restore Modem (PLM). This will rebuild the PLM link database. With a PLM that is 6 years old the link database could use restore. The links should be functional since the Scene Test was successful but the Restore Modem (PLM) should only take a few minutes. Link to comment
satwar Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 satwar The white sticker contains the "hardware" level of PLM (v1.0). It was manufactured in week 31 of 2009 (0931). The v.92 is the PLM "firmware" level. It would be a good idea to do a File | Restore Modem (PLM). This will rebuild the PLM link database. With a PLM that is 6 years old the link database could use restore. The links should be functional since the Scene Test was successful but the Restore Modem (PLM) should only take a few minutes. Well that wasn't a very happy experience. An ISY message popped up saying that all battery powered devices ( in my case a door sensor & door lock) need to be set in Programming mode (hold set button until flashing green led). I did that but then Iost communication with an in-line light switch controlled by door sensor. I finally restored ISY from recent backup, then restored PLM without pushing any set buttons, but I don't know if the door sensor & door lock where restored in PLM. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Look for the 1011 beside each device in the device tree. My PLM restore took me over 12 hours with 14 battery devices. Link to comment
LeeG Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 A Restore Modem (PLM) does not alter any device other than the PLM unless the PLM is being replaced or there were already pending/queued updates for other devices. larryllix was doing something more than a simple Restore Modem (PLM). This would indicate that there were pending updates already queued for the battery devices. Only ONE battery device must be put into linking mode at a time. Putting multiple battery devices into linking mode linked the devices. Put ONE battery device into linking mode, then right click on device node and select Restore Device. When that restore has completed, take that device out of linking mode. Then move to the next battery device and repeat the process for that device. . Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I don't believe it is electrical interference on my house wiring because I shutdown every circuit in my house except the two circuits with the lights (I unplugged everything in those circuits) and there's no change in the problem. That's a good troubleshooting technique, but I have a couple of concerns. First, it's common practice to not have receptacles on the same circuit as lighting (there are a few exception). What type of lighting load do you have on those two circuits (e.g., incandescent, LED, CFL, other). Second, is the PLM on one of those circuits? Link to comment
satwar Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 That's a good troubleshooting technique, but I have a couple of concerns. First, it's common practice to not have receptacles on the same circuit as lighting (there are a few exception). What type of lighting load do you have on those two circuits (e.g., incandescent, LED, CFL, other). Second, is the PLM on one of those circuits? The Back Porch circuit has 7 receptacles and 2 lights (incandescent). The Garage circuit has 7 lights (3 CFLs & 4 incandescent) and 5 receptacles. The Ontario Electrical Code allows for a maximum of 12 outlets connected to a circuit, with any combination of light and plug outlets. Furthermore the Code encourages the circuit load to be a mixture of lights and plugs to achieve better load diversity and less chance of a complete blackout in case of circuit failure. In general the Garage circuit is occasionally used for opening the garage door (too much junk to park my car). The Back Porch circuit has a small refridgerator and a television The PLM has it's own circuit Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Did you disconnect/unplug the GDO during testing? Are any of the CFLs Insteon controlled? What else is on the same circuit as the PLM? Link to comment
Techman Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The Garage circuit has 7 lights (3 CFLs & 4 incandescent) and 5 receptacles. You may want to try removing the CFL's to see if that makes a difference. I've had CFL's with noisy ballasts that interfered with the Insteon signals. I've since replaced any CFL's with LEDs Link to comment
satwar Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 You may want to try removing the CFL's to see if that makes a difference. I've had CFL's with noisy ballasts that interfered with the Insteon signals. I've since replaced any CFL's with LEDs I agree that the CFLs could be a problem, but they are usually switched off. Link to comment
satwar Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Did you disconnect/unplug the GDO during testing? Are any of the CFLs Insteon controlled? What else is on the same circuit as the PLM? What is a GDO ? Nothing else on PLM circuit I'll have to get back on Insteon controlled lights. I have been upgrading CFLs to LEDs and can't remember the current status.. I'm pretty sure they are all on same circuit, so when I flipped the breaker they were not in the equation when I tested the problem. Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The Ontario Electrical Code allows for a maximum of 12 outlets connected to a circuit, with any combination of light and plug outlets. Furthermore the Code encourages the circuit load to be a mixture of lights and plugs to achieve better load diversity and less chance of a complete blackout in case of circuit failure. The Ontario Elecctrical Code permits a maximum to 10 receptacles or fixtures on a circuit, not 12 (the actual number can vary locally). I can find nothing in the code that "encourages" mixing receptacles and fixture although nothing in the code prohibits that. Where in the code did you find the "encouragement?" Also, it seems to me that if the fixtures and outlets are on the same circuit, then you increase the likelihood of a complete blackout in case of a circuit failure. I don't believe it is electrical interference on my house wiring because I shutdown every circuit in my house except the two circuits with the lights (I unplugged everything in those circuits) and there's no change in the problem. How did you accomplish that if the PLM is on a circuit different from the two that power the problematic devices? There seems to be a paucity of puzzle pieces. BTW, a GDO is a garage door opener. Did you test with the GDO disconnected? Link to comment
satwar Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 The Ontario Elecctrical Code permits a maximum to 10 receptacles or fixtures on a circuit, not 12 (the actual number can vary locally). I can find nothing in the code that "encourages" mixing receptacles and fixture although nothing in the code prohibits that. Where in the code did you find the "encouragement?" Also, it seems to me that if the fixtures and outlets are on the same circuit, then you increase the likelihood of a complete blackout in case of a circuit failure. How did you accomplish that if the PLM is on a circuit different from the two that power the problematic devices? There seems to be a paucity of puzzle pieces. BTW, a GDO is a garage door opener. Did you test with the GDO disconnected? Yes the GDO was disconnected, on the Garage circuit that has the 2466sw I'm trying to get working. The second Garage circuit (which has 3 CFLs and the second GDO) was shut off.completely at the garage minipanel Yes both the PLM circuit and the ISY remained powered up during my breaker testing. I actually have a dedicated circuit (2 duplex receptacles) for each "phase", supplying power for the hub of my home automation equipment. For troubleshooting purposes, I moved the PLM to one circuit and loaded the ISY and all other Insteon modules to the other circuit. This move was made when it was suggested that the PLM would operate best on it's own circuit, which I could readily apply. Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I use an extension cord cut in half as a bench test tool. A 2-wire extension cord is adequate as the ground is not needed for testing. One side of a 2-wire extension cord has a rib, the other side is smooth. The side with the rib is the neutral (wide blade on plug). Connect the plug end to the line wire of an Insteon device. Optionally connect the receptacle side to the load wire and plug in a lamp. Connect all the neutrals together. Connect one ToggleLinc to the same circuit as the other ToggleLinc. If there's not a spare location to install the second ToggleLinc, then you can use the extension cord method described above. There no need to make any changes to the ISY. Can you control both load(s) when operating the ToggleLincs manually? Link to comment
satwar Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Well I finally got around to building a test rig. I wired it up conventionally with power to both 2466sw and only one light on the red wire of one of the 2466sw (I call it the primary switch). I then did a factory reset on both switches and then manually set each switch as controller of the other. To my surprise the secondary switch didn't operate the light unless I executed a quick double toggle. I confirmed that this double toggle also works well on the switches installed in the Back Porch and Garage and configured by ISY, which are on separate circuits. Obviously not a desired outcome. Any suggestions ? Link to comment
oberkc Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 My first inclination centers around a couple of possibilities: slow ramp rate or ON LEVEL set to zero. My guess is the second option. When you manually linked these switches, were they off? Turn on the primary switch. After that turn on (single press) the secondary switch. Does the primary switch turn off when you turn on the secondary switch? Link to comment
satwar Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 The Ontario Elecctrical Code permits a maximum to 10 receptacles or fixtures on a circuit, not 12 (the actual number can vary locally). I can find nothing in the code that "encourages" mixing receptacles and fixture although nothing in the code prohibits that. Where in the code did you find the "encouragement?" Also, it seems to me that if the fixtures and outlets are on the same circuit, then you increase the likelihood of a complete blackout in case of a circuit failure. I am quoting from page 56 Section 17.(d) Outlet Boxes, Outlets Per Circuit (Rule 8-304), Ontario Book 1 2009 to 2011 Electrical Code Simplified, House Wiring Guide. Link to comment
satwar Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Good news, I got it working. It turns out it was the fault of the toggle switch operator (me). I was not operating the toggle switch properly. I was momentarily holding the toggle switch at the end of it's toggle range, which causes the switch to get mixed up. Holding the toggle lever temporarily has never caused problems before, because I haven't implemented multi-way switching before. I wish to thank everyone for participating, and convincing me to rig up a test bed to investigate the problem. I also apologize for taking so much of your time. At least someone may benefit from my learning about 2466sw switches. Flick the switch, don't hold it. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Good news, I got it working. It turns out it was the fault of the toggle switch operator (me). I was not operating the toggle switch properly. I was momentarily holding the toggle switch at the end of it's toggle range, which causes the switch to get mixed up. Holding the toggle lever temporarily has never caused problems before, because I haven't implemented multi-way switching before. I wish to thank everyone for participating, and convincing me to rig up a test bed to investigate the problem. I also apologize for taking so much of your time. At least someone may benefit from my learning about 2466sw switches. Flick the switch, don't hold it. On the SwitchLinc Dimmers this is a Fade Up or Brighten command signal and you can use that in programs to operate more stuff. I have no ToggleLincs but I would imagine the same thing applies to it. Add an extra line in your programs to catch the operator error (both signals styles) and function the same unless you split out the "style of flick". Do the same for Off and Dim in those programs. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 The 2566SW is a togglelinc relay switch, there's no fast on/off or dimmer commands. It's possible that by holding it in an on or off position sends multiple commands. According to the Quickstart Guide . "Quick Start Guide ToggleLinc™ Relay – INSTEON® Remote Control On/Off Switch (Non-Dimming) Model: 2466S, (15Amps) Rev 5.0+ Your new ToggleLinc On/Off Switch allows you to dim and remotely control any light in your home at the touch of a button" I would think they used the same smarts as the 2466DW and changed the triac to a relay.. ISY my not support the signals it can send out though. Link to comment
oberkc Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I can confirm that a togglelinc relay can control a dimmer switch. It sends dim and bright, and fast on. Link to comment
satwar Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 I've attached the communications event log comparing the two ways of operating the toggle switch on the 2466sw isyforum.txt Link to comment
LeeG Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 The Relay responder does not react to the Ramp Up or Ramp Down from the Relay Controller. However, if the Scene also has a Dimmer as a Responder it would Ramp Up and Ramp Down from those commands issued by the Relay Controller. ISY Scene ToggleLinc Relay 1 ToggleLinc Relay 2 Dimmer (ToggleLinc Dimmer, KeypadLinc Dimmer, SwitchLinc Dimmer, etc) Dimmer does react to Ramp Up and Ramp Down from ToggleLinc Relay 1 and ToggleLinc Relay 2 Link to comment
jerlands Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 The Relay responder does not react to the Ramp Up or Ramp Down from the Relay Controller. However, if the Scene also has a Dimmer as a Responder it would Ramp Up and Ramp Down from those commands issued by the Relay Controller. ISY Scene ToggleLinc Relay 1 ToggleLinc Relay 2 Dimmer (ToggleLinc Dimmer, KeypadLinc Dimmer, SwitchLinc Dimmer, etc) Dimmer does react to Ramp Up and Ramp Down from ToggleLinc Relay 1 and ToggleLinc Relay 2 I guess this means that non-dimming devices (relays) have the ability to send dimming commands? Edit.. didn't see oberkc post #71 but does this apply to other relays as well? Jon... Link to comment
LeeG Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Insteon Relay switches have always issued Ramp Up/Down commands. Take a look at Event Trace from post 73. First two traces show On and Off commands. Trace 3 shows a Ramp Up, trace 4 shows a Ramp Down, all from a ToggleLinc Relay. Works the same for KeypadLinc Relay, SwitchLinc Relay. Link to comment
jerlands Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Insteon Relay switches have always issued Ramp Up/Down commands. Take a look at Event Trace from post 73. First two traces show On and Off commands. Trace 3 shows a Ramp Up, trace 4 shows a Ramp Down, all from a ToggleLinc Relay. Works the same for KeypadLinc Relay, SwitchLinc Relay. Wow.. wasn't aware of that.. opens up some different possibilities.. Thanks, Jon... Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.