Insteon Prices

[themlruts]

So.. What is everyone's thoughts on insteon prices.  Will they drop? Is it me or are prices going up?  With all the competition out there you would think prices would come down. I mean 50 bucks for a lamplinc??  I feel like at those prices i am going to have to go back to x-10 haha

Just think they may price them selves out.  

Just wanted everyone's thoughts

Thanks
Mike 

Edited November 24, 2015 by themlruts

[PurdueGuy]

I usually buy during a SmartHome sale. There's one coming up!

 

Given the feature set of Insteon, I don't think their pricing them so much differently than Z wave competitors such as Leviton Vizia RF+. In fact, I found them to be cheaper than comparable items. (Full disclosure: I haven't had to purchase items in over a year!)

 

Often times SmartHome will have multi packs for a discount as well. Usually those are excluded from percent off sales. Sometimes Costco does too. They currently do not have LampLincs, except in the starter kit with a hub.

[mwester]

They're giving away their hubs, practically -- so they have to keep prices high on the rest of the stuff so that they cover the losses.

 

That said, they have a problem - three way circuits are so common now in homes (some of them convenience but many mandated by code), and the Insteon solution for three-way circuits is identically-priced switches at each location.  The z-wave folks have created, instead, a solution where there's a very low cost "slave" switch and a single master.  Technically, there's nothing preventing the creation of a master and slave switchlinc set, where only one has electronics (the other being nothing but a dumb switch) -- other than the fact that they're busy spending all their money and time on multiple hubs and "cloud" stuff.  Another example: consider garage door monitoring -- Insteon is still selling the rather hacky solution based on the IOLinc and to top it off they ship the wrong sensor, while Linear is selling a proper garage door system, using a secured device and including the required 10-second delay and visual flashing light notification.  And the Linear solution is really only slightly more expensive than the Insteon hack.

 

Z-Wave and Zigbee pretty much own the creative wiz-bang stuff (Hue bulbs, LED strip lights, multi-function sensors, even useless things like electronic egg containers for your fridge!).  I think the thermostat battle is over too - and Insteon didn't win that.  Insteon never even really put a horse in the race for door locks (the most common vendors, Schlage and Kwikset, are both Z-wave).  I guess if you consider the Morningstar thing to fit the door lock need, then maybe they did try to get into that market - but once again, the price was outlandish compared to the entire Kwikset solution.

 

So, when you look at it like that, it just makes all the sense in the world to get the ISY Z-wave module, and start investing there.  Cheaper, and in many cases, better.

 

(Hopefully, when SmartLabs/Smarthome/whatever goes bankrupt, the buyer of the Insteon technology will see the wisdom of opening up the protocol to other vendors so that we can have, like Z-wave, X10, Zigbee, etc, multiple vendors working on the devices.  Competition is healthy for everyone; it may result in having to share the pie, but the pie inevitably ends up much larger!)

[Brian H]

I have also seen Insteon pricing going up or less product in a kit.

 

Lots of users like the light pipe color changing kits. Single color ones where being sold. Now you only get two of the right colored ones in the assortment and the other six are useless.

 

I also have seen the sneaky prices retail prices listed for reconditioned units be $10 more than a new one. Then the $15 off on the recon is actually $5.

So $5 off on a recon with a 30 day warranty while a new one has two years.

 

I also wait for sales and got a post card for a 20% off sale starting 11/25/15

 

X10 prices are also going up. Though the new owners of the X10 brand. Are updating the electronics in some of them and new devices are close. Like a Wi-Fi module and improved RF repeater.

[paulbates]

 

So.. What is everyone's thoughts on insteon prices.  Will they drop? Is it me or are prices going up?  With all the competition out there you would think prices would come down. I mean 50 bucks for a lamplinc??  I feel like at those prices i am going to have to go back to x-10 haha

Just think they may price them selves out.  

Just wanted everyone's thoughts

Thanks
Mike 

 

 

I've been watching this all year. Apparently there has not been enough threat from zwave yet, and Smartlabs offering an integrated solution with the echo must be very attractive for those that want to take it out of the box and get it working, so more people are buying. Things seem to be on their side for the moment.

 

Basic items like switchlinc dimmers and relays, plus the items in the image, are 10% cheaper at Menards.  If I have a new project that needs one of these items, or need an emergency replacement of a staple insteon device, its faster and cheaper for me to go brick an mortar.

 

They do keep a limited number of things in stock so for other items I wait for the black Friday sale. And as Bipto pointed out in a related recent post, I'm waiting until the very end of the sale before committing. In the past, things get more lucrative the longer you wait.

 

Get that cart loaded up though, so they see your finger hovering over the mouse button

 

Edited November 24, 2015 by paulbates

[Teken]

This might come as a shock to many of you but at this very moment I am OK with the general pricing of the Insteon product. As its clear to me Smartlabs has been steady in working toward more integration with new and popular hardware and cloud hosted services.

 

This has been seen with the inclusion of the Harmony remote, Amazon Echo, Apple Home Kit, Apple Watch, etc. I expect to see them adding in more network support for other similar networked products.

 

As posted in the past by me here in these forums the Insteon hardware side is getting another round of upgrades which many of us have been waiting for years for.

 

Off the top of my head the big hitters are the expansion of more base hardware for the EU market. Next, the soon to be released global PLM which in my mind will surely help out UDI in selling more 994 Series Controllers. This infusion of cash for this little company will surely reflect more resources being made available to perhaps hire a short term contractor to work on low / high priorities features etc.

 

Lastly, as indicated the list I found in the Insteon NET site indicates many updates and products soon to be released to the market place such as the dual band I/O Linc, Global PLM, iMeter strip, iMeter Breaker, GE Usnap, etc.

 

OK, enough of the warm and fuzzy which I have written above! 

 

Ha . . .

 

Did you guys really think I wasn't going to throw a few jabs at Smartlabs / Smarthome?!?!

 

M-ahahahahahah . . .

 

One of the biggest pain points for me with respect to pricing is the custom KPL keys! I've said this 999999999 times leaving it at the $19.XX price point sold more (steady) sales of this one item in one month then they would have sold in an entire year at the inflated and bloated $49.XX they are trying to rape you for 8 pieces of plastic!

 

The other day I decided to see what the current feed back was for this product and (IF) others shared the same views. Below is just a small snippet of what like minded people had to say.

 

LMAO . . .

 

Price hike is outrageous Review by Brian Rating

 

 

I bought several of these a few times over the years as my system expanded. They looked great and really finished off the install nicely. The product should get 5 Stars. However, they used to be to be less than $20 and that seemed a little pricey. $50 is just outrageous. How can six or eight buttons be worth as almost as much as the keypad link itself. I cannot believe this item is flying off the shelf anymore.

 

Posted on 5/13/2015

Um what??? Review by Joe Rating

 

These were always $20, now $50???. WTF?!!?!

 

Posted on 4/28/2015

Why $50 Review by Arizona-Automation Rating

 

These used to be so much cheaper, $50 is way to much for this product. The cost increase has deterred me from expanding Keypadlincs to other areas of the house.

 

Posted on 4/27/2015

$50....are you kidding? Review by Pster Rating

 

The price on these custom etched buttons is just over the top. Hard to understand....I've bought them before at less than half this price. Smarthome is just plan greedy.

 

Posted on 4/25/2015

INSTEON 2401C8 Custom-Etched 8-Button Set for KeypadLinc Review by Smokegrub Rating

 

Outrageously expensive. Won't be buying anymore until the price is reduced.

 

Posted on 4/22/2015

Review of 2401C8 Review by POLO Rating

 

Just WAY too expensive for 8 little pieces of plastic. Brought in the past for a much more reasonable $20. Would buy at least 7 more sets if it were not for the outrageous price hike!!!!

 

Posted on 4/18/2015

Um What? Review by Chris Rating

 

$50??? These used to be $20, how can you justify that insane of an increase???

 

Posted on 4/15/2015

Ripoff pricing Review by Al Rating

 

Way too expensive

 

Posted on 3/8/2015

Nice, but too expensive Review by Paul Rating

 

This is way more than I'd pay for this kind of product no matter how nice it looks. Sorry, Smarthome, you need to reduce the price on this.

 

Posted on 1/23/2015

Look nice but pricey Review by Michael Rating

 

These are a nice product and looks very professional, but they jacked the price up over the years. The 8-button set used to sell for around $17. Now they are the standard $50! They look nice and really finish off an install, but I'm not sure they are worth the cost any more. Keep your eyes open they just ran a sale for a free button set with a purchase, unfortunately I bought mine the day before the sale came out and when I reached out to see if they would extend the sale to me the answer was NO!

 

Posted on 1/23/2015

Edited December 18, 2015 by Teken

[smokegrub]

Teken:

You and I are definitely in agreement on the custom KPL keys. At $20 they were too pricey! At $50, absurd!

Edited November 24, 2015 by smokegrub

[paulbates]

...

One of the biggest pain points for me with respect to pricing is the custom KPL keys! 

 

Teken

 

Yep, that one still feels like a taunt. I am very fortunate that I finished all my keypad projects a while back. There are a couple of places I wanted to simplify functionally and go 8 - 6, but it means more buttons, so I've decided against, for this reason

 

Paul

[Teken]

Teken:

You and I are definitely in agreement on the custom KPL keys. At $20 they were too pricey! At $50, absurd!

 

Ironically your review was also in the snippet!

 

Ha . . .

 

Teken

 

Yep, that one still feels like a taunt. I am very fortunate that I finished all my keypad projects a while back. There are a couple of places I wanted to simplify functionally and go 8 - 6, but it means more buttons, so I've decided against, for this reason

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

I talked to a few people in the customer service and tech line and none of them know why the price(s) have been jacked up like that.

 

The one lady didn't want to say over the phone (being recorded) what her thoughts were. But she did affirm what many of us have posted here today. They saw more steady sales of these plastic chicklets every month than they did in an entire year for any year this product has been made available.

 

One has to ask wouldn't a company want steady sales on something that clearly has a profit margin of excess of 300% mark up??

 

And that was at the $19.XX price point too!

 

At the $50.XX price point you're just a greedy stupid fool in thinking sales will continue. Added the mark up and profit margin is now 700-800% now!

 

Did you know the a Switch Linc Dimmer sold for $9.99 still makes profit for both the retailer and Smartlabs? Consider what the cost of this switch is? That switch costs about $1.53 to make given the mass production of said product. So normally priced dimmer is $49.99 all day long and when they go on sale for 20-22% off that is still $37-39.XX per module.

 

Keeping in mind the device cost only $1.53 to make!

 

I will never begrudge anyone trying to make a dollar in these hard economic times, ever. But like others have stated above at some point *Profit before people* really needs to be re-accessed.

 

But to be fair (because I just have to) a profitable company is a company that has legs and the ability to endure hard times. The reality is none of us need smart devices in our homes at all. If the world hit another recession the first thing to go are items like theses to the public.

 

We have all lived with out these kinds of toys for eons so its not a stretch that 90% of the populace continue to see no value in changing over. With a strong and profitable company Smartlabs had in my mind lead the charge in releasing at least one new product a year or updated existing ones via hardware changes.

 

This was seen in the most recent Switch Lincs / Dimmers where the inclusion of a dual LED to help determine same phase / opposite phase. These devices also went under a complete over haul in power handling, surge protection, and lower energy consumption.

 

These are things I am willing to pay for at the $49.99 price level even though people could argue this kind of hardware should have been present since launch!

 

I agree but people need to understand its *Profit before people* which is a narrow sighted view. Because as many can attest when the news goes out your product is junk and has no ability to sustain minor surges or blips in power. You guessed it your brand recognition will be hurt and that directly reflects sales and repeat sales.

 

Its obvious the giant ship we call Smarthome / Smartlabs finally woke up and smelled the coffee and grabbed a brain in that area. Because the endless threads of people coming home to see devices blinking, cycling, or just smoked?

 

Was really pathetic to see and read so many times during the course of years . . . 

[smokegrub]

To be fair, a company has many costs in addition to that of manufacturing, not the least of which is labor. Labor involved in engineering, design, facilities, marketing, warehousing, sales, insurance, after sales support, defective product replacement, etc. Nevertheless, there are glaring examples of price gouging such as the KPL custom buttons. The company is aware that the market for these buttons is relatively small and thus competition is extremely unlikely. They also know that such buttons are highly desirable, thus, the current price point. My guess is that if sales of the buttons decline to a point where Smarthome's overall profit margin is less than it was at the lower price point, they will lower their price. The law of supply and demand at work. The best way for us to help them make that decision is simply not to buy the custom buttons while at their current price point. I have done that.

[Teken]

To be fair, a company has many costs in addition to that of manufacturing, not the least of which is labor. Labor involved in engineering, design, facilities, marketing, warehousing, sales, insurance, after sales support, defective product replacement, etc. Nevertheless, there are glaring examples of price gouging such as the KPL custom buttons. The company is aware that the market for these buttons is relatively small and thus competition is extremely unlikely. They also know that such buttons are highly desirable, thus, the current price point. My guess is that if sales of the buttons decline to a point where Smarthome's overall profit margin is less than it was at the lower price point, they will lower their price. The law of supply and demand at work. The best way for us to help them make that decision is simply not to buy the custom buttons while at their current price point. I have done that.

Exactly, and my hopes are a little nudge of public shaming will also make someone say we need to revisit the price point on this offering.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[jerlands]

 

Z-Wave and Zigbee pretty much own the creative wiz-bang stuff (Hue bulbs, LED strip lights, multi-function sensors, even useless things like electronic egg containers for your fridge!).  I think the thermostat battle is over too - and Insteon didn't win that.  Insteon never even really put a horse in the race for door locks (the most common vendors, Schlage and Kwikset, are both Z-wave).  I guess if you consider the Morningstar thing to fit the door lock need, then maybe they did try to get into that market - but once again, the price was outlandish compared to the entire Kwikset solution.

 

 

Seems to me what Insteon has going for it is the dual-band technology and ISY

 

 

(Hopefully, when SmartLabs/Smarthome/whatever goes bankrupt, the buyer of the Insteon technology will see the wisdom of opening up the protocol to other vendors so that we can have, like Z-wave, X10, Zigbee, etc, multiple vendors working on the devices.  Competition is healthy for everyone; it may result in having to share the pie, but the pie inevitably ends up much larger!)

 

I'd like to see some stats on growth of the HA market with Insteon / Z-Wave / Zigbee and other in relation.  In my brief exposure with HA I've seen the Z-Wave Alliance grow from what I remember as just a few vendors to many.

 

 

Jon...

[larryllix]

I wouldn't be sure SmartyPants can lower their prices much and stay in business with the new big-name competitors coming on the scene (pun intended)  from everywhere in droves. They are priced about the same as everybody else.

 

What surprises me in light f the same fact (above) that SmartyPants hasn't had a big sale or price drop, at least temporarily drop prices to hook a future captive audience to their product line.

 

In other forums I constantly hear the single supplier argument and I believe it takes it's toll on their share of the market just as it drove Apple into the ground for so many decade of floundering.  If the Insteon product line had a huge advantage above other protocols it may rise to the top but it doesn't. The watching future market doesn't see any advantage to Insteon at all and until you have some experience with it you aren't going to know any difference except for the big-name behind other products.

 

Who is SmartyPants anyway?

Edited November 24, 2015 by larryllix

[Teken]

I wouldn't be sure SmartyPants can lower their prices much and stay in business with the new big-name competitors coming on the scene (pun intended)  from everywhere in droves. They are priced about the same as everybody else.

 

What surprises me in light f the same fact (above) that SmartyPants hasn't had a big sale or price drop, at least temporarily drop prices to hook a future captive audience to their product line.

 

In other forums I constantly hear the single supplier argument and I believe it takes it's toll on their share of the market just as it drove Apple into the ground for so many decade of floundering.  If the Insteon product line had a huge advantage above other protocols it may rise to the top but it doesn't. The watching future market doesn't see any advantage to Insteon at all and until you have some experience with it you aren't going to know any difference except for the big-name behind other products.

 

Who is SmartyPants anyway?

 

Larry,

 

LOL . . .

 

As noted earlier I am OK with pricing so long as that translates to new hardware, refinement in existing gear, and inclusion of new services or features not available now.

 

The reality is it takes money to R&D these devices and like others there are lots of intangibles that cost money. There is lots of over head and I don't want anyone to think for a moment that I don't recognize these basic elements. I've been in big business my entire life and I know about profit / loss.

 

In the end for me as a consumer is want, need, and demand for better thought out Insteon offerings. There is always a place to do better or to evolve a product. Sadly, the history of Smartlabs has been either ham strung from doing its best or if we are led to believe.

 

Simply not capable of thinking past today and ignoring tomorrow . . .

 

I yet hold out hope as the listing I posted a few months back indicates movement in the iMeter field. Along with updates to some core products like the I/O Linc etc. 

[Guest Digger]

Smarthome wants to set their prices in line with the big boys but they still don't have the quality and features of most Zwave mfg (Insteon quality has improved in the past 5 years or so though). Smarthome Customer Service often sucks with their CS and Tech Support staff often denying known issues. The Zwave protocol is more feature rich for the most part.

 

The keypad buttons are unique and a huge selling point for the high end look. Kind of like fake granite countertops in a kitchen make it look more high end then it is. At least the buttons won't fail in a couple of years (wait they can crack over time).

 

Time will tell if they get their act together.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ballison]

I feel like I'm always getting the short end of the stick with smarthome.  I've spent thousands over the years and I have numerous KPLs that hang every time there is a power disturbance, switchlincs with flakey buttons, KPLs with slightly mismatched key colors and a box of smarthome hub products that never worked right.  After awhile I quit trying anything new because they always shipped 1/2 baked functionality and never bothered designing in the ability to update their firmware.

 

I probably have 50+ Insteon devices in my house (much of it 10+ years old now), and something is "always" broken.  I worry I'll never be able to sell the house without ripping it all out.

 

I just ordered a new ISY with z-wave and I think I'm going to test those waters a little

 

I do think the KPL functionality (other than the frequent lock-ups), is great though.  I don't see any alternative product with the flexibility.  The custom button price is killing me though...  Trying to get by with 4-5 of the 50-button kits, but some things just won't map (fireplace, tub, shower, basement)...

[Guest Digger]

Newer devices seem to be a little bit better quality than years ago. If you have almost 10 years out of your devices they are well out of warranty. I used UPB for 8 years after ripping out the original Insteon junk. Never had a single device fail. But they are made by much more reputable manufacturers.

 

 

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