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Unable to restore KPLs after factory reset

Bruce L

By Bruce L
in INSTEON Communications Issues

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Bruce L Newbie

Bruce L

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I'm trying to convert from an Insteon Hub setup to an ISY 994i setup.  I read in the devices for 3 rooms and then recreated the scenes (with some improvements) and wrote everything out.  Everything worked except for two keypadlincs that are essentially doing radio buttons between the main and scene A & B.  On those the scene buttons would light up when they weren't supposed to (according to the scene definitions in ISY).  So I thought maybe there was something left over from the insteon hub on the two KPLs and decided to factory reset and restore them.

 

Unfortunately, the restore fails with a "communication error (check connections)" although from observing the event logs communications seem fine.  I did move the PLM to within a few feet of the KPLs just to make sure there was good signal.  

 

I don't understand the protocol very well, but there are quite a few entries that look odd in the restore sequence:

 

Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:58 PM : [23 CE 98 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [AA0323CE65001F04] Writing [AA0323CE65001F04]
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:58 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 23 CE 98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:58 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 23.CE.98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:59 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 AB 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:59 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:03 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 23 CE 98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 23.CE.98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 AF 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 A3 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:09 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 23 CE 98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:09 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 23.CE.98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:10 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 AB 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:10 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:10 PM : [23 CE 98 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [AA0323CE65001F04] *Failed Writing [AA0323CE65001F04]
 
 
full event log of an attempt to restore the two KPLs right after another factor reset is attached.
 
Thanks,
Bruce
 

ISY restore problems.txt

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LeeG Advanced

LeeG

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Need to see the beginning of the Restore Device.   The Factory Reset reset all the link records.   This is an I2CS Keypad which requires a Responder link in the first position that has the PLM as the Controller.  The attempts to write additional link records fail which would imply there is an issue with the first link record.

 

Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:58 PM : [23 CE 98 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [AA0323CE65001F04] Writing [AA0323CE65001F04]
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:58 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 23 CE 98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:58 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 23.CE.98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:59 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 AB 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:00:59 PM : [Std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:03 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 23 CE 98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 23.CE.98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 AF 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [Std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 A3 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:04 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:09 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 23 CE 98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:09 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 23.CE.98 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 AA 03 23 CE 65 00 1F 04 9B 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:10 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 23.CE.98 3C.4A.A6 AB 2F FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:10 PM : [Std-Direct Nack] 23.CE.98-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 07:01:10 PM : [23 CE 98 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [AA0323CE65001F04] *Failed Writing [AA0323CE65001F04]
 
Here is what the beginning of a Restore Device for an I2CS Keypad looks like
 
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:02 PM : [        Time] 23:00:01 3(0)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:13 PM : [  33 14 C5 1] Preparing Device 'KPL Test2' for Restore
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:13 PM : [  33 14 C5 1] Device 'KPL Test2' ready for Full Restore
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:14 PM : [All         ] Writing 91 bytes to devices
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:14 PM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 33 14 C5 0F 0D 00
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:14 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.14.C5 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:14 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 33.14.C5 22.80.0B AB 0D FF           (FF)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:14 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 33.14.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:14 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 33 14 C5 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:14 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.14.C5 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:15 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 33.14.C5 22.80.0B 2B 09 01    LNK-ON (01)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:15 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.14.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:15 PM : [LNK-BGN     ] 02 64 01 00 06 
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:16 PM : [LNK-STAT    ] 02 53 M(01) gid=00 33.14.C5 0141 43 
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:16 PM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 33 14 C5 0F 0D 00
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:16 PM : [LNK-END     ] 02 65 06 
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:16 PM : [std MH      ] Unexpected Ack imCmd=65 cmd1= 0xC5
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:16 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.14.C5 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:16 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 33.14.C5 22.80.0B 2B 0D 02           (02)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:16 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.14.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:21 PM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 33 14 C5 0F 0D 00
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:21 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.14.C5 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:21 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 33.14.C5 22.80.0B 2B 0D 02           (02)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:21 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.14.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:21 PM : [33 14 C5 0  ] Calibrating engine version
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:21 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 33 14 C5 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:21 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.14.C5 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:22 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 33.14.C5 22.80.0B 2B 2F 00           (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:22 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.14.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:22 PM : [iNST-ERX    ] 02 51 33 14 C5 22 80 0B 11 2F 00 00 01 0F FF 00 AA 00 22 80 0B 00 1C 01 4E 
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:22 PM : [Ext-Direct  ] 33.14.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:22 PM : [33 14 C5 1  ] Link    0 : 0FF8 [A20022800BFF1F01] Writing [A20022800BFF1F01]
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:22 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 33 14 C5 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F FF 08 A2 00 22 80 0B FF 1F 01 4B
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:22 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 33.14.C5 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F FF 08 A2 00 22 80 0B FF 1F 01 4B 06        (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:23 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 33.14.C5 22.80.0B 2B 2F 00           (00)
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:23 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.14.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:23 PM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 40 E2 00 33 14 C5 01 41 43 15 
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:23 PM : [PLM         ] Group   0 : Writing Controller Link matching [33 14 C5 1  ] Link    0 : 0FF8 [A20022800BFF1F01]
Thu 11/26/2015 11:00:23 PM : [33 14 C5 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [A29A22800BFF1F01] Writing [A29A22800BFF1F01]
 
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Bruce L Newbie

Bruce L

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Firmware and UI are 4.3.26.  

 

I originally linked all my devices with the keep links option enabled.  I then decided to start from scratch in redefining the scenes, so I deleted almost all of the scenes originally imported.  99% certain that there are no originally imported scenes left that these devices are involved with.  From what I can see in "membership" everything looks right.

 

Thanks,

Bruce

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LeeG Advanced

LeeG

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It is not Scenes that is the issue.   An application such as the ISY (and other apps) requires a Responder link as the initial link in an I2CS device.  Linking an I2CS device with the Hub is a manual link which uses a different command sequence.   The Hub cannot do the link management and device configuration the ISY (and other apps) can do.  That is why the command sequence is different for an application versus direct links.

 

I believe the Keypad devices will have to be added to the ISY from scratch.  Then create the Scenes.

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Bruce L Newbie

Bruce L

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OK, so I removed the two KPLs from ISY and re-added them (this time with Remove Links, although since I had since factory reset them they weren't linked to the hub or anything else anymore).  I then re-did the scenes.  I did have to restore one of the KPLs one more time (it worked this time) maybe because of something in the failed writes, but this time it works and now the scenes behave as I want with the radio button behavior, etc.  So everything seems fine.

 

In terms of the ISY software, my expectation was that running "restore" would essentially reset everything by starting from scratch---and delete whatever sordid history of previous hubs and control software might be left by removing links ISY didn't know about.  Apparently this isn't what happened, and it seems awfully dangerous to be left in a state where I can't restore.  Can this be fixed in the ISY software?  What would the "right" thing be for me to do---would importing them with "remove links" solve the whole problem, or is it necessary to reset devices before adding them to ISY?  I think all of my devices speak I2CS.  I checked some link tables and they match, but will I need to factory reset any devices I want to restore, or was it only the two KPLs (these are the only KPLs I have, everything else is a switch, remote, etc).  

 

I'd rather avoid having some sort of hidden bomb in my setup that will bite me at some point in the future :)

 

Thanks,

Bruce

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LeeG Advanced

LeeG

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Glad to hear things are working.

 

Unfortunately Restore Device does not produce the results you wanted.   Restore Device takes the information currently stored in the ISY for the device and writes it back to the device.  Since the ISY information came from what the Hub produced (manual device links) that is what was restored, or in this case failed to restore since the links were manually created.

 

That would work for older devices but SmatLabs built into I2CS devices a requirement for link records that adds to the security of the Insteon network.  This I2CS requirement prevents some hacker using a different PLM from updating I2CS devices.  Only the original device add has the logic to add the security link. 

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Bruce L Newbie

Bruce L

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OK, so my understanding is that everything is working now, but if I should get into a situation where I need to restore a device in the future, I'll need to factory reset it and rebuild it from scratch in ISY.

 

At this point I don't know of a reason I would need to do that, so I'm not going to worry about it.  But at least my expectations are set :)

 

Bruce

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LeeG Advanced

LeeG

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Assuming the device configuration did not originate from a Hub a simple Restore Device is fine.  A Factory Reset can be useful before the Restore Device to insure device is not left with unknown conditions.

 

If you have older devices (before I2CS) that ever have to be replaced a Hub originated configuration will be an issue, just as the Keypad was.. 

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