chachdog Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 I have 2 scenes that have this issue that I know of. Lately they have both been missing a device or 2 when the scenes are called by motion but if you hang out long enough to trigger another motion, it eventually comes on and some times it works as it should. I have rebooted the isy and it didn't help. Is there any way I can see why this maybe happening? thanks
Techman Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 You either have a combinations issue, I.e. either noise on the powerline or poor signal or you may have some bad links in the devices that are not responding.. Run a diagnostics / compare on the device(s) that are not responding. If all is OK then you should focus on the communication issue. Have you added any new electronics abut the time the problem started. Do you have dual band devices in close proximity to your motion sensors?
mwester Posted December 20, 2015 Posted December 20, 2015 I expect Techman is correct -- I had similar issues with my two kitchen keypads, which were frustrating everyone here (obviously heavily used scenes!) There were two problems, first was that one of the KPLs was missing some links. This was revealed using the diagnostics/compare as Techman recommends. The other issue was a general comms problem on one of the kitchen lighting circuits - this was uncovered when I noticed that multiple diagnostic/compares of the same KPL, with no intervening changes at all, resulted in vastly different results! Bringing up the diagnostic window to view the traffic, and setting it to the max (to view all traffic) showed the hop count issues to all the devices on one circuit. A FilterLinc fixed the comms; a "restore device" fixed the link issue. All has been well since.
chachdog Posted December 25, 2015 Author Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) You either have a combinations issue, I.e. either noise on the powerline or poor signal or you may have some bad links in the devices that are not responding.. Run a diagnostics / compare on the device(s) that are not responding. If all is OK then you should focus on the communication issue. Have you added any new electronics abut the time the problem started. Do you have dual band devices in close proximity to your motion sensors? I wired a new bathroom fixture in, I stole power from a near by junction box. All the devices in question (kitchen and bathroom) are within 10 feet of each other. The isy shows the light is on but is not. I captured the log when it happened. When the motion kicked sensor fired, the shower LED is the only one that came on even though they are in a scene together. Motion Sensor 36.93.D7 bath light 32.92.B6 shower LED 32.97.60 Wall LED 3B.A5.38 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 00.00.01 CB 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 93 D7 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [ 36 93 D7 1] DON 1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [D2D-CMP 0021] CTL [36 93 D7 1] DON op=1 Event(val=1 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 11 CF 11 00 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 93 D7 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 36 93 D7 1] ST 255 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 00.00.01 C7 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.11 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [3B A5 38 1] [sT] [109] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 3B A5 38 1] ST 109 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [38 92 B6 1] [sT] [153] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 38 92 B6 1] ST 153 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [32 97 60 1] [sT] [102] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 32 97 60 1] ST 102 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 38.FF.95 4A 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 36.93.D7-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 11.01.01 CB 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 11.01.01 CB 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:42 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:45 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 00.00.01 CF 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:45 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:45 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 A6 77 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:45 AM : [ 36 A6 77 1] DON 1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:45 AM : [D2D-CMP 001A] CTL [36 A6 77 1] DON op=1 Event(val=1 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:45 AM : [ Time] 10:23:47 0(0) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 00.00.01 CF 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 38.FF.95 45 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 36.A6.77-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 11.01.01 CF 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:46 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 11.01.01 CF 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:47 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:47 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:47 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 38 A6 13 0F 11 77 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:47 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 38.A6.13 0F 11 77 06 LTONRR (77) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 38.A6.13 38.FF.95 2F 11 77 LTONRR (77) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:48 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 38.A6.13-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:57 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 00.00.01 CF 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:57 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:57 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 A6 77 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:57 AM : [ 36 A6 77 1] DON 1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:57 AM : [D2D-CMP 001A] CTL [36 A6 77 1] DON op=1 Event(val=1 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:57 AM : [ Time] 10:23:58 0(0) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:58 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 38 A6 13 0F 11 77 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:58 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 00.00.01 CF 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:58 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:58 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:58 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 38.A6.13 0F 11 77 06 LTONRR (77) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 38.A6.13 38.FF.95 23 11 77 LTONRR (77) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 38.A6.13-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 38.FF.95 4B 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 36.A6.77-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 A6 77 1] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [ 36 A6 77 1] DON 0 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [D2D-CMP 001A] CTL [36 A6 77 1] DON op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:59 AM : [ Time] 10:24:00 0(0) Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 11.01.01 CF 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 38 A6 13 0F 11 77 Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.A6.77 11.01.01 CF 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [std-Group ] 36.A6.77-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 38.A6.13 0F 11 77 06 LTONRR (77) Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 38.A6.13 38.FF.95 2F 11 77 LTONRR (77) Fri 12/25/2015 10:24:00 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 38.A6.13-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Edited December 25, 2015 by chachdog
chachdog Posted December 25, 2015 Author Posted December 25, 2015 this time nothing came on Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 00.00.01 CB 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 93 D7 1] [DOF] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [ 36 93 D7 1] DOF 1 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 93 D7 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [ 36 93 D7 1] ST 0 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2D.47.F5 38.FF.95 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 2D.47.F5-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2D 47 F5 1] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [ 2D 47 F5 1] DON 0 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [D2D-CMP 0015] CTL [2D 47 F5 1] DON op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 00.00.01 CB 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 93 D7 1] [DOF] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [ 36 93 D7 1] DOF 1 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 38.FF.95 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 36.93.D7-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 13.01.01 CB 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->13.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 13.01.01 C3 06 00 (00) Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:01 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->13.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:01 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2D.47.F5 38.FF.95 47 11 01 LTONRR (01)
LeeG Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 The second trace in post 5 is an Off command from Motion Sensor. Not usual to turn turn On a Scene due to Motion Sensor Off Fri 12/25/2015 11:30:00 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 00.00.01 CB 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) I'm looking at the trace in post 4.
LeeG Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 The trace in post 4 shows a Motion Sensor On command received followed by a Scene On for Scene 0x11 from Program. Note that the ISY does not receive any information from the Scene Responders. Based on the Scene definition the ISY marks each Scene Responder to the state the Scene is expected to accomplish. If the Scene is intermittent then there is likely a comm issue. Could be interference or a problem with the devices used to couple the 2 120v legs. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 00.00.01 CB 11 01 LTONRR (01) - Motion Sensor On Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 93 D7 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [ 36 93 D7 1] DON 1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:40 AM : [D2D-CMP 0021] CTL [36 93 D7 1] DON op=1 Event(val=1 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 11 CF 11 00 - Scene On Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [36 93 D7 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 36 93 D7 1] ST 255 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 36.93.D7 00.00.01 C7 11 01 LTONRR (01) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [std-Group ] 36.93.D7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.11 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [3B A5 38 1] [sT] [109] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 3B A5 38 1] ST 109 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [38 92 B6 1] [sT] [153] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 38 92 B6 1] ST 153 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [32 97 60 1] [sT] [102] uom=0 prec=-1 Fri 12/25/2015 10:23:41 AM : [ 32 97 60 1] ST 102
chachdog Posted December 25, 2015 Author Posted December 25, 2015 I thought I had this motion sensor set to only trigger ON. IE not turn anything off. The off is handled with a 10 min wait > turn scene off Guest Bath Motion 1 - [iD 0021][Parent 0020] If Control 'Guest Bath / Guest Bath-Sensor' is switched On Then Set Scene 'Guest Bath / Guest Bath Lights All' On Wait 10 minutes Set Scene 'Guest Bath / Guest Bath Lights All' Fade Down Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
paulbates Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 FWIW, I have 2 sets of outside lights controlled by a MS. Its also linked to 3 keypad keys on 3 keypads to turn on the lights, or show that the MS did turn them on. The MS uses "on only" and a program turns it off after a wait. The keys always turned everything on and off, and the program always turned things off. However, after some period of having it, I began having intermittent firing of the 2 outside light switches from the MS, after enough movement the would both come on. Assumed it was the MS, tried batteries, etc. I solved this with a spare access point, trying it in a number of locations in the house between the MS and the panel where the PLM is. The last location worked for reasons that I can't explain, but it now fires correctly all the time. If you have a spare access point or dual band module, this might be worth a try. Paul
LeeG Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 I have seen a Motion Sensor do unexpected things when the battery is low. You can put the Motion Sensor into manual linking mode and do a Query to get the current configuration. Be sure to take Motion Sensor out of linking mode when finished..
Techman Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 chacvhdog, Did you run diagnostics on the devices other than the motion sensor? What type of bulbs are you using in the fixtures? What type of devices are you using, are they dual band?
chachdog Posted December 26, 2015 Author Posted December 26, 2015 FWIW, I have 2 sets of outside lights controlled by a MS. Its also linked to 3 keypad keys on 3 keypads to turn on the lights, or show that the MS did turn them on. The MS uses "on only" and a program turns it off after a wait. The keys always turned everything on and off, and the program always turned things off. However, after some period of having it, I began having intermittent firing of the 2 outside light switches from the MS, after enough movement the would both come on. Assumed it was the MS, tried batteries, etc. I solved this with a spare access point, trying it in a number of locations in the house between the MS and the panel where the PLM is. The last location worked for reasons that I can't explain, but it now fires correctly all the time. If you have a spare access point or dual band module, this might be worth a try. Paul I have 8 insteon switches within 10 of each other and the plm is right there too. They are all new and dual band. The lights are low voltage and LED, not sure if that matters.
chachdog Posted December 26, 2015 Author Posted December 26, 2015 I have seen a Motion Sensor do unexpected things when the battery is low. You can put the Motion Sensor into manual linking mode and do a Query to get the current configuration. Be sure to take Motion Sensor out of linking mode when finished.. so if the battery is low you have to put it in linking mode to see that? I see a motion sensor batt low in the isy but not sure when or if it does anything.
paulbates Posted December 26, 2015 Posted December 26, 2015 so if the battery is low you have to put it in linking mode to see that? I see a motion sensor batt low in the isy but not sure when or if it does anything. Ideally the ISY should show that node as on for low battery, however if you rebooted your ISY, it may show off. I wouldn't necessarily trust it. I change my battery proactively twice a year, early fall and late spring, to avoid getting to this situation. I have 8 insteon switches within 10 of each other and the plm is right there too. They are all new and dual band. The lights are low voltage and LED, not sure if that matters. I also have a number of low voltage lighting transformers. Those create line noise, as can LEDs. The difference is that they should always go on, but once turned on the noise flooded the switches ability to respond further, sometimes even with dual band devices. (If some low voltage lights and LEDs were already on when the MS triggers, that complicates this explanation) Since it takes several MS senses to trigger On, I would first explore the path Lee suggested, replacing the battery and and factory resetting it, put it in linking mode and restoring it. Before the biannual battery changes, my MS used to need this procedure from time to time. Paul
LeeG Posted December 26, 2015 Posted December 26, 2015 chachdog "so if the battery is low you have to put it in linking mode to see that? I see a motion sensor batt low in the isy but not sure when or if it does anything. " You indicated that the Motion Sensor was in On Only mode so Off commands were not expected. The suggestion was to Query the Motion Sensor to see what Options were actually in use. Because the Motion Sensor is a battery powered device it sleeps to save battery life. The Motion Sensor is put into manual linking mode to keep Motion Sensor awake so a Query can be done. When the Query is done I suspect the On Only Option will not be set because Off commands are being sent. After any changes to Options are made be sure to take Motion Sensor out of linking mode.
Techman Posted December 26, 2015 Posted December 26, 2015 I have 8 insteon switches within 10 of each other and the plm is right there too. They are all new and dual band. The lights are low voltage and LED, not sure if that matters. I would first focus on the low voltage lighting. If the transformer is not hard wired then you may want to try either a filterlinc between the transformer and the line, or substitute the low voltage out for a led or incandescent load to see if that eliminates the problem.
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