john410 Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 My X10 devices work just fine. Still struggling with Insteon. I replaced my PLM, following the replacement procedure. I selected Start Linking... Pressed the button on my Insteon lamp module and it beeped. ISY showed that the device was recognized. So I pressed Add. After some time, and a bunch of cryptic messages about writing memory etc., I get the message: The following devices could not be added: 35.99.CD (B2457D2) LampLinc BiPhy v. 43 - cannot determine Insteon Engine My PLM is plugged into an outlet that goes directly into one of two breaker boxes (4 inches from the box). The Insteon lamp module is plugged into an outlet that is almost directly above the breaker box - 6 feet at most. What the heck is going on? Should I invest in a 2406H phase coupler? I will only do so if someone here can tell me this coupler would help with X10 as well (SmartHome doesn't mention X10). I'm about ready to send this Insteon crap back to SmartHome and stick with X10. My X10 devices work 100% of the time - at least the devices I currently use (all Christmas candles, 4 switches and 5 lamp modules - about 15 devices in all). I will say that I had problems with certain X10 switches in the past and had to go with standalone timers. Insteon claims better reliability. Sure couldn't prove that by me.
stusviews Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Which ISY firmware and UI? (Help > About) Do you have anything plugged into the LampLinc? Yes, the 2406H phase coupler will bridge both Insteon (131.65 kHz) and X10 (120 kHz) power line signals.
john410 Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 Which ISY firmware and UI? (Help > About) Do you have anything plugged into the LampLinc? Yes, the 2406H phase coupler will bridge both Insteon (131.65 kHz) and X10 (120 kHz) power line signals. Both firmware and UI version are v.4.3.26. A lamp is plugged into the LampLinc. I tried the linking procedure with the lamp on and with it off. Same result - "Cannot determine Insteon engine" error message. Thanks for the info on the 2406H. I will order one - they're only $25 and I happen to have a couple of adjacent spare breakers in one of my panels. Just one question about the phase coupler: Do I need to purchase a double pole breaker or can I use two single pole breakers?
oberkc Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Do you currently have an x10 phase coupler? Some can interfere with insteon.
john410 Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 Do you currently have an x10 phase coupler? Some can interfere with insteon. No. I was actually thinking of ordering an Insteon 2406H, which supposedly helps Insteon and X10.
larryllix Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Both firmware and UI version are v.4.3.26. A lamp is plugged into the LampLinc. I tried the linking procedure with the lamp on and with it off. Same result - "Cannot determine Insteon engine" error message. Thanks for the info on the 2406H. I will order one - they're only $25 and I happen to have a couple of adjacent spare breakers in one of my panels. Just one question about the phase coupler: Do I need to purchase a double pole breaker or can I use two single pole breakers? Anytime you connect a device across the two phases/legs, to get 240vac, you will need a double pole breaker. With two single pole breakers one could trip without the other and/or you could turn off one and start to work on the wiring with the other phase voltage still alive.
oberkc Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) No. I was actually thinking of ordering an Insteon 2406H, which supposedly helps Insteon and X10. My experience is that insteon is more robust than x10 and if x10 works, insteon will. The only exceptions that I can think would be if one has an x10 phase coupler that messes with insteon, or if one tries an insteon device in a new location. Regarding the latter exception, are there other gadgets or devices on the circuit that powers the PLM? If you put an x10 device at this exact location as the PLM, can you control it? Edited December 22, 2015 by oberkc
oberkc Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Regarding breakers, I vaguely recall an option that yokes two breakers together in such a way that it would not be possible to disable only one.
john410 Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 My experience is that insteon is more robust than x10 and if x10 works, insteon will. The only exceptions that I can think would be if one has an x10 phase coupler that messes with insteon, or if one tries an insteon device in a new location. Regarding the latter exception, are there other gadgets or devices on the circuit that powers the PLM? If you put an x10 device at this exact location as the PLM, can you control it? There is a junction box with single 110 volt outlet mounted directly below one of two breaker panels. Into this is plugged a simple three-way splitter. Two of the three outlets on the three-way splitter are used - one with the PLM and the to a power strip that powers my security system and the ISY. The PLM is not plugged into the power strip. One of the Insteon lamp linc modules that does not work is plugged into the same circuit that an X10 module is that works (that X10 module is at least 15 years old). The Insteon lamp linc is actually closer to the breaker box and the PLM. Yet another fact that makes me question whether Insteon is actually more reliable. I'm going to stop screwing around with this until after Christmas, when I hope to have the 2406H phase coupler. I will install that and try removing and re-linking my Insteon devices, one at a time. If it still doesn't work, I don't know what else to do other than send the Insteon stuff back to SmartHome.
oberkc Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Is there a problem with temporarily unplugging the power strip? Plug the ISY into the other outlet. See if this works. Surge suppressor power strips can cause problems. Security systems? I don't know. Does the security system have a UPS?
stusviews Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 The Insteon lamp linc is actually closer to the breaker box and the PLM. Yet another fact that makes me question whether Insteon is actually more reliable. Being physically closer to the panel is meaningless. More important is how the wiring is routed (unseen, behind walls) and what else is on the same circuit as the LampLinc. Also, nothing should be plugged into the the LamplInc (on or off) when trying to add it to the ISY.
john410 Posted December 23, 2015 Author Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Being physically closer to the panel is meaningless. More important is how the wiring is routed (unseen, behind walls) and what else is on the same circuit as the LampLinc. Also, nothing should be plugged into the the LamplInc (on or off) when trying to add it to the ISY. Well this is news. The QuickStart guide for the Lamplinc specifically say to have the lamp plugged into he Lamplinc and to have it turned on when linking. Edited December 23, 2015 by john410
stusviews Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 That's because, when linking manually (or using an Insteon Hub), it's possible to link in the off state. If you do that, the LampLinc will turn off in response to both an On or an Off signal. That's not a concern with the ISY (nor the now discontinued HouseLinc). I suggested not having a load plugged in because, on occasion, the load may hinder linking and you're having some difficulty.
john410 Posted December 23, 2015 Author Posted December 23, 2015 That's because, when linking manually (or using an Insteon Hub), it's possible to link in the off state. If you do that, the LampLinc will turn off in response to both an On or an Off signal.Stusviews,I really appreciate your trying to help, but you lost me here. I thought if you link, you're just getting the two devices to agree to talk to each other (exchange addresses), not what On and Off mean - which is really confusing me more.
stusviews Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Older (the original) Insteon devices behaved as you stated. It didn't matter if the device was on of off when the link was created. The link was simply an agreement between two devices to talk to each other. If you wanted a device to turn off in response to an On signal, you would have to set the On-level to 0% or 1%--after creating the link. Setting a level of Off was not possible, it had to be set to a specific On-level. It was also not possible at all to turn off a relay (On/Off) device with an On signal. Later, Insteon add the ability to completely turn off a device by sending an On signal. The result was that if you created the link when the device was off, each time you sent an On signal the device would turn off. Thus, the QSG instruction to turn the device on prior to linking. If the responder was a dimmer, then it would turn on at the level it was set to at the time the link was created. The ISY doesn't care if the device is on or off when it's added. If you're concerned, then you can turn the LampLinc On prior to linking. That can be determined using the LED. But there is no need to have anything plugged into the LampLinc.
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